clintcobb3219

My wife and I will be on our honeymoon and we will be leaving Paris to take a high speed train to either Bordeaux or Burgundy for 2 nights. I am having trouble picking. From there, we will be headed to the Cote D'azur and basing out of Nice for 4 nights so logistics could be a factor. We don't mind taking a short RyanAir type flight if needed from Bordeaux to Nice. We love red wine so both are great areas. If I had to pick between cab vs pinot noir I would give a slight nod to Pinot Noir, but not a huge deal. We would probably want the vast majority of the 2days/2nights to be almost solely wine based (Chateaux, vineyards, etc.). If there's something spectacular to see in either area we could forego a couple of hours drinking wine to do that. So, suggestions?

StuDudley

No brainer IMO. Burgundy.

I am assuming that you are referring to a region, not any specific city. Head to Beaune.

Train logistics for getting from Bordeaux to Nice is complicated & very time consuming. Not much better from Beaune or Dijon. Dijon is tied with Toulouse as our second favorite city in France. We were there this past Sept.

We spend 2 months in France almost every year. I'm a wine lover also. Have done the wine tasting/visiting thing when we first started going to France in the 1970s. I was mostly underwhelmed with the experience. I live in Northern California with Napa & Sonoma a short distance away. We were there a week ago. I would not wast my (too short) time in France trying to work in a winery visiting experience. It is just too complicated & time consuming to fit into your itinerary. Have some nice dinners in Paris & Nice & order a good bottle of wine there. There are some wine tasting spots in Old Nice.

If Chateauneuf du Pape is OK with you - take the TGV to Avignon. Beaucastel gives a good tour and tasting. Getting to Nice is easy from Avignon.

Off to dinner at a neighbor's house. I am taking a bottle of Gigondas to have with dinner.

Stu Dudley

MmePerdu

I’m wondering, can the term “vast majority” really be applied to a single day? I suppose it can be if you smile when you say it. But a single whole day is what you get with a 2 nights stay, something that’s pointed out regularly here on Fodors & probably the most useful lesson. The bits of days on either side being well used up with getting there & leaving. Save the wine country visit for when you’ll have time to make it worthwhile, enjoy Paris, relax in Nice with a night added to each, a much better use of your time.

clintcobb3219

Thank you for the suggestion, however I disagree. If we were to take a high speed train from Paris to either Bordeaux or Dijon it is under 3 hours. So a morning train still gets you to either before lunch on day 1. A little time to check into the hotel at some point. 30min to an hour. That still gives you quite a bit of time on day 1 and then an entire day 2 with a night two. So I would argue it is more than a single day. If you want to call it 1.75 out of 2 days, then sure. But I'll take that.

clintcobb3219

Thank you Stu! Could you tell me more about what makes Dijon your second favorite city in France? If I were to pick Burgundy I was looking at staying either in Dijon or Beaune and going out to wineries. With Dijon being your 2nd favorite city, you would still pick Beaune for me?

**Also, I just want variety to my trip. Getting to see and be in the big city in Paris for several days, 4 days in the Cote D'azur soaking up sunshine and beaches, so my main thought was going wine country in between those 2 to be in a small town type area with countryside, chateaux, etc. and of course WINE.

It sounds like the wine experience may not be as exciting as I thought?

janisj

1.5 days at very most. Even with 'just' a 3 hour train. You're on your honeymoon for cryin' out loud (congrats BTW) You don't want get up at 0-dark-30 to catch an early morning train. You have to pack, have breakfast, check out, make your way to the station, 3 hour ride, then get you your new hotel to leave the bags (unless you want to schlepp them around til your room is ready). Any way you dice it -- at least half a day is shot and you've already been on the move for probably close to 6 hours. All for just over a day in 'wine country'. I agree with MmeP, split the time between Paris and Nice.

mjs

I am going agree with both Stu and even with Mmeperdu. You could actually get to Bordeaux or Dijon by about 0900 by taking the earliest train. You would probably have to get up about 0400 to 0430 to do so and catch some sleep on the train. I have done something like this several times yet somehow it's not the same getting a good uninterrupted night of sleep in a bed and facing the day fresh. In turns of wine I do not find wine tasting as much fun as in the past in Napa and Sonoma as it is now an industry of its own. Used to be like visiting a farm and it didn't cost anything. Still you can have a good experience with the smaller wineries especially in Sonoma. Have not found wine tasting in France to be very interesting except for CDP. Bordeaux by with way is much more than just cab as there is a significant amount of Merlot as well as lesser amounts of Cab Franc, Petit Verdot etc. I think Stu's idea of TGV to Avignon and CDP tasting is a good one as it is right on the way to Nice. Bordeaux is probably your next best choice as there is a museum of wine you might enjoy and you can fly via Easyjet directly to Nice on some days. I do not think there is any easy way to get from Dijon to Nice.

StuDudley

Clint.

It is quick & easy to get from Paris to either Bordeaux and Dijon. The problem is getting from there to Nice. I don't know how many months or years you have spent in France. Most of the people providing suggestions here have vacationed in Europe & France for many years. Listen to us. I think you will be disappointed with the wine experiences in France, unless you have about 3 full days to dedicated to it. If it is a "must do" for you and you are willing to spare 2 days to do it - your best choice is to take the TGV to Avignon, find a tour of the Cote du Rhone wineries to latch on to, and then go with the flow. Wine tasting in France is different from wine tasting in the US - at least the Napa & Sonoma regions. In France, you pretty much have to have a plan in place with reservations to accomplish anything. Do you speak French??? It is not like just walking up to a winery and going on a tour with a tasting at the end like it is in some wineries in Napa & Sonoma. Do you have any "connection" to any wineries in France???

Do extensive research and choose your wineries/Chateaux tours NOW before you put any plans in place. Make sure it is doable. In June 1999, we walked in to Beaucastle and asked about a tour. They were booked up solid for all that week & most of the next. We returned 2 months later with a reservations for a tour & tasting.

The city of Chateauneuf du Pape has many tasting concessions in the city - just like they do in downtown Healdsburg, Sonoma, St Helena and other towns in Napa/Sonoma. But it is like visiting a jewelry store where you sit at a table with the clerk & taste a few of their wines. With a bit of pressure to purchase something. No tours - the winery is elsewhere. Not much fun, IMO.

There is a huge tasting concession in Beaune in a Church where you can taste many wines. No tour and you are pretty much on your own (at least that's the way it was a few decades ago when we were there).

Read about Dijon in the Michelin Green Guide. It will take an entire day to get to Nice from Dijon - unless you drive.

Stu Dudley

kerouac

Vineyard and winery tourism is still in its infancy in France. Up until recently it was assumed that people were interested in what was in the bottle on their meal table rather than the "factory" where it is made. The exception to this are the local tourists of limited means who absolutely love to go to the places where they can fill up their big jugs for one euro a liter, but the "visit" stops there. Romantic movies that take place in French wine country give a completely distorted view of the situation.

So Stu is right in saying that visiting the places is likely to be a disappointment is you are familiar with the slick visitor operations of California wineries (or Australian ones, from what I have read).

Not being fascinated by the wine industry, I would base my choice on the scenery, and the region of Bordeaux wins on this point.

bilboburgler

I have tasted around the world including CA and many if not most of the French ACs. (tough work but someone has to do it)

It depends on what you want from your tasting.

If you want to turn up, wander through a building tasting as you go without input the Dijon experience is fine. You can also do smaller versions of this in various Chateau on road down from Nuit-st-george but for that you need a little time and to plan. For me that is the best way to go but then you have to think about drink-drive laws and only having 2 days, so I suspect not the best way for you.

If you want a serious review of a vinyard's production then Bordeaux cannot be beaten. This is partially due to land-law and how it influenced land holdings in Burgundy and partially due to the position of the negociant in Burgundy.

I would suggest start with this web site https://www.medocvignoble.com/en/my-stay/vineyard/ it is joined with the Pauillac tourist information office (also a good website) where more local information (Pauillac is part of Medoc as I'm sure you know) is available. Have a good read and maybe drop them an email (you should then wait two days and send them a reminder email as such people are very busy ;-) ) with any questions and then book a visit

Alternatively, organise a B&B in a vinyard and see if the owner can blag (organise) you into a visit to a posher chateau.

https://www.medocvignoble.com/en/my-...d-experiences/ more ideas

Luckily paying for wine visits in smaller places has not yet come in so do buy stuff (glasses, tea towels or wine) when you visit, that keeps the place open for all of us.
Good luck and let us know how you get on

bilboburgler

CDP do you mean Clos des Papes or Chateauneuf-du-Pape? I've not seen that acronym before.

FTOttawa

You did say honeymoon, right?

Perhaps a couple of nights at Pierre Amadieu’s Villa Sainte Anne in Gigondas. All depends if you like Côtes du Rhone wine; but the setting is gorgeous.

But to stick to your stated interests, “oenotourisme” is indeed developing in Burgundy. Browse this:

https://www.burgundy-tourism.com/dis...d-in-burgundy/

A couple of nights — could you stretch it to three? — at a chateau in Burgundy would be a fine interlude.

StuDudley

Clint is still going to have a problem getting to Nice from either Dijon, Beaune, or Bordeaux. Personally, I never consider flying within a country. We drive or take trains.

Here is what I would do:

- Take one of the hourly TGVs from Paris to the Avignon TGV station. It takes 3 3/4 hrs to get there and morning trains depart at 9:33 & 10:33

- Take a 30 min taxi ride to Chateauneuf du Pape and stay for 2 nights at the Hostellerie Chateau au Fines Roches. We had dinner there, and it is quite nice.
https://chateaufinesroches.com/en

- I'm sure the chateau will have all the info and practical stuff available for you to explore the regional wineries.

- Return to the Avignon TGV station and take the 9:28 direct TGV to Nice that arrives at 12:50. There is a later train that has 1 train change in AIx (small station).

Stu Dudley

kerouac

Considering the destination of Nice (even though Marseille would be better), Avignon is indeed the logical place to stop for wine activities. And if you know nothing about rosé, the fastest growing wine in France, this will be the time to find out more.

mjs

In the US the acronym CDP is often used for Chateuneuf du Papes. I do like Clos du Papes and have stopped by there several times to buy a few bottles as it is significantly cheaper there than in the US

bilboburgler

thanks, I live and learn

kerouac

However, nobody in France would ever understand that acronym (as much as we love acronyms), so you should delete if from your European travel vocabulary. Anybody who would use an acronym beginning with C would have us all searching for what follows "Conseil" or "Comité."

waterdog

Several years ago we took a train from Paris to Beaune. We did not have a lot of time so instead of wandering around looking for vineyards to visit, we engaged a couple who took us on a tour. We saw several wine growers, tasted a lot of wine and had the opportunity to meet and ask questions of the Vigneron at each stop. On another day we took a short train ride from Beaune to Dijon to visit that city for a day.
I

Christina

I agree with Stu and don't really understand all this wine tourism as I like drinking it but that's it, I don't spend vacation time touring wineries. But I really like Rhone wines and you can visit Gigondas from there, also. It's really the travel from this wine destination to Nice that is the problem.

touringtimothy

It might be nice if on honeymoon to have a spa treatment. There is the famous Claudie spa (also a hotel)

I also love Relais & Chateaux small boutique hotels which are fancy but often have pools and a great restaurant (often Michelin starred).

You could even go surfing in Hosgor or around there..see the massive sand dunes in Pyla...