kja

Have you consulted the <i>Michelin Green Guide</i>?

StuDudley

>>looking for a scenic route to drive Dordogne to Perpignan over 2-3 days . <<

Do you have a copy of my Languedoc-Roussillon itinerary? We've spent around 12 weeks in this region, and my 35 page itinerary describes our favorite villages, scenic drives, sites, etc. I also have an itinerary for the Dordogne. I've sent my various itineraries to over 6,000 people on Fodors - 30 since this past Friday. If you would like a copy, e-mail me at [email protected] & I'll attach them to the reply e-mail. Specify which ones you would like - I have others.

Stu Dudley

PalenQ

I think you mean Collioure, Pal.>

Indeed I do or did!

Merci

Tommmo

Stu, thank you ,your report looks invaluable. Already we think due to limited time we are better off missing Toulouse and heading for a night in Albi.
As we have nearly 2 weeks in Sarlat in a Gite, the Dordogne report will be good too, though we're the types who like to stay home evenings for a sunset drink and cook up a storm from the local markets, there will be some nights out.
Maybe go shopping by canoe if it can be arranged to hire for several days?
After Perpignan maybe we'll head for the coast on the way to Barcelona, though Collioure is looking a bit upmarket and expensive and perhaps there's somewhere a bit more undeveloped in the area?
.

Michael

<i>Maybe go shopping by canoe if it can be arranged to hire for several days?</i>

Sarlat is several kilometers from the Dordogne river, and except for campground stores, few are available until Beynac and La Roque-Gageac, the two towns right on the river closest to Sarlat. Please take a look at a map before considering options that are geographically nonsensical.

StuDudley

>>Collioure is looking a bit upmarket and expensive and perhaps there's somewhere a bit more undeveloped in the area?<<

Be careful - there are several huge "family vacation" areas near Perpignon. Banyuls is OK on the coast.

Stu Dudley

Tommmo

You are talking about the town Banyul sur Mer of course - not the delicious sounding wine Banyul
Could be a nice place for a stop methinks

StCirq

You can't go shopping by canoe. You can hop off the canoe and buy a sandwich at a tourist spot, but that's it. Well, there's a sort of mini-mart and a butcher off the beach at Castelnaud, but the idea of shopping by canoe is pretty ridiculous. I would cancel that notion immediately.

I'll leave it to you to decide if Banyuls is drinkable or not.

And trekking across the countryside to see Albi without including Toulouse or any of the other major wonderful sites in the vicinity seems really odd to me unless you have a Toulouse-Lautrec fetish.

If Collioure doesn't appeal, go inland or down the coast to Port-Vendres or therabouts. But it would be a shame to miss at least seeing Collioure.

You really do need to study a good map.

kja

@ StCirg: I'm so glad you are here! Best...

Lexma90

We've done your route several times, in the opposite direction, starting in Barcelona. Picking up / dropping the rental car in Perpignan should work very well. I don't recall anything that I would call a mountain pass from Perpignan up to Sarlat, though we drove in mountainous terrain. We've spent time in the Languedoc, visiting various "Cathar" castles. Carcassonne is not my favorite because while very scenic, the restoration work is not very authentic. Which is an interesting story in itself.

Tommmo

Thanks. What routes did you take Perpignan-Sarlat? It seems some are quite mountainous and there are many choices, so we're trying to find one that encompasses the best from scenery to history. We have about 3 days. Did you drive through Toulouse and what were your impressions? Albi or Toulouse? I think we must decide on one....

Tommmo

Actually, given the time constraint mentioned, it would be unwise to even consider a stop in Toulous. Nothing toulouse you might say
And even if we don't have a "Toulouse- Lautrec fetish" Albi or similar sounds fine for us to overnight in.

StuDudley

Albi vs Toulouse is like apples & oranges - they are quite different. Albi is worth a half-day at best. The old town is "cute" - but I don't think many people really live in Old Town. We went to the les Halles market around 10AM to order up a roast chicken for dinner. There were about 3 other customers in the entire market. We returned around 11:30 to pick up the chicken - and there weren't many people then either. After dinner at a restaurant the prior night, there was almost nobody wandering around after dinner. Not many people at cafes during the day either. We really didn't find a restaurant in Old Town that had a menu that pleased us (we're foodies - we like something new & unusual). This was in late June 2015.

Toulouse is just the opposite - very vibrant & active. Lots more stuff to do & see in Toulouse. Place du Capitole is quite alive with the cafe crowd, and many other events "going on". The market in Toulouse is quite crowded. One could spend 3-4 days in Toulouse to see most of the interesting stuff.

It seems like you want to spend time in the car driving on some scenic routes - with a mid-afternoon stop in a town to have dinner & stay overnight. And you have 3 nights available, with the last night being near Perpignan to return the car & hop on the train. But no mountain roads.

If that's the case - let me know & I'll try to suggest something - tomorrow.

Stu Dudley

StuDudley

A few more questions:

1. Are "one-nighters" OK?

2. You seem to not want to drive in mountains. Is that because of winding roads, or driving with a somewhat big drop to your right? Or Both. Is it OK to drive along a scenic gorge on a narrow road - but a somewhat straight road?

3. Have you visited Carcassone or have any desire to visit it.

Stu Dudley

Tommmo

Thanks Stu. Absolutely no problem with mountain driving - unless fog or heavy rain makes it impractical.
Don't think a one-nighter in Toulouse is on......seems like we could be stuck in traffic or lost for hours. Plenty of Cathedrals,markets etc. along the way I'm sure or already enjoyed. . Our trip this year focuses on Dordogne, Barcelona and then a flight to Naxos for nearly 3 weeks in the Greek islands, so you can see this drive is mainly a get-to project. When you have 5 weeks with flights to/from Australia you have to be pretty ruthless with time.
Carcassone and its castle sounds good if it fits in.
As said..We originally thought to take the slow train journey via Latour de Carol but found we can drop the car in Perpignan without penalty, so we are now looking for a scenic route to drive Dordogne to Perpignan over 2-3 days .
Will weather be ok in early May or is there a chance of thick fog or heavy rain? - not good for enjoying mountain passes!
Also a couple of nice places to spend the night in B+B's along the way and any other nice diversions.
Still digesting your copious trip notes and finding them very helpful BTW

StuDudley

I only have a minute before starting dinner - & I have 2 more questions.

1. What day of the week do you depart Sarlat. It's important

2. For clarification, is 1 night Albi, 1 night Carcassonne, and 1 night someplace near Perpignan OK. Or do you want to head into the Pyrenees instead of a night in Carcassonne. Perpignan is at the base of the Pyrenees and you could easily do some mountain stuff there. You could stay in the mountains or along the coast for you last night & get to Perpignan in time for an afternoon train to Barcelona.

Stu Dudley

Tommmo

Depart Sarlat on Tuesday May 9
We haven't got down to specifics on where to stop along the way yet. An easy drive from Sarlat for the first night and returning the car to Perpignan on the third , obviously somewhere interesting in between .
I'm picking up some books on the Pyrenees this afternoon from the library including a motorbike tourer finding secondary roads .
Enjoy your dinner Stu...we often do a much simpler version at our house, just using what is good and fresh from the market wherever we are in the world.

StuDudley

>>I'm picking up some books on the Pyrenees this afternoon from the library.<<

Just finished dinner with too much wine. Get the Michelin Green Guide for the Languedoc. The Guide for the Dordogne also.

Stu Dudley

StuDudley

Maps and books needed
Michelin Maps 337, 338, 344, 343 if you are going to drive the Route Verte
Michelin Green Guide for the Languedoc

The stars below (0 to 3) indicate the rating given to the site by Michelin. If I think it is better than the Michelin rating, I will add a +. If I think it is not as good I'll add a -

TMBVoF stands for The Most Beautiful Villages of France ("Plus Beaux Village" in French)

Start with map #337

Day 1

Depart Sarlat, and get on the A20 towards Toulouse.

If you leave Sarlat by 8:00, get off the A20 at exit #60, and make your way to the city of Montauban*+. It should take you about 2 hrs to get there from Sarlat We visited it last year on a beautiful Saturday, and the town was quite alive. We visited it a decade earlier on a dreary day, and the city seemed quite dreary. There is a fantastic arcaded square called Place National. There is a picture of it in the Green Guide. We spent most of our time there. It would be a good spot for a coffee, or even an early (11:30) lunch. Look up Montauban in the Green Guide, and follow the walking itinerary in the guide.

If you departed Sarlat after 8:00, or it is a dreary day - skip Montauban and instead get off the A20 at exit #59, and make your way towards St Antonin Noble Val on the D926 then the D5. If you did visit Montauban, head north on the A21, and get off at exit #59 also.

There are fabulous views of St Antonin* from the D5. Before you get to the center of town, look for a turn to the right, which will take you counter-clockwise around town. At the bridge, turn right & go over the Aveyron River. If you want to get an even better view of St Antonin, as soon as you hit the D115 off the bridge, turn right & go 20 yards or so until you see a large park (not for cars) downhill on your right. There are several benches in this park. We’ve spent many hours sitting on these benches, admiring the view, devouring a pizza we bought at the fabulous Sunday morning market, and writing in my wife’s diary. Then go over the bridge into St Antonin and explore the town.

After St Antonin, follow the driving itinerary in the Green Guide for the Gorges de l’Aveyron*+. Take the route exactly as described in the Guide – from St Antonin, through Penne, and then Bruniquel – in the clockwise direction. This direction will give you the best views. Make sure that you cross the Aveyron River where they tell you to – you’ll have to pay attention. There is a fantastic view of Penne+ as you approach this village with large chateau ruins sticking up in the sky. You can get a great view from the road next to the tourist office and across from a restaurant with outside tables (lunch?). This restaurant was very crowded when we were there on a Sunday mid-day (when the French take their main meal of the day). Penne is another of TMBVoF. Read about it in the GG under “Penne” and explore the town. Continue on the drive and shortly you will come to Bruniquel*, another TMBVoF. Explore this town quite thoroughly. See “Bruniquel” in the GG & visit the chateau. This is a real pleasant town.

Make your way to Cordes sur Ciel and visit Cordes sur Ciel***. This is another TMBVoF. Parking is difficult. Park as high up into the village as you can, and then explore the village

After Cordes, take the D922 south to the D1 heading east, then the D4 south to Castlenau de Montmiral+. Castlenau is one of our favorite small Bastide towns. Explore on foot - it's a short visit.

Switch to map 338.

From Castlenau de Montmiral, take the D964 southeast to the D18 clockwise around Gaillac, then the D988/N88 to Albi

Albi***

This is one of our favorite small cities in France. Look up Albi in the Green Guide. Look for the underground parking lot (it’s huge), and park there. Emerge from the lot, and walk north on the large street to take some pictures of Albi from the bridge over the Tarn river. Albi closes up tight at lunchtime - except (June through Sept) for the fabulous Cathedral Ste Cecile***. My Green Guide says that the Toulouse Lautrec Museum** is closed for lunch (except July & Aug), but I’m not sure that’s the case. Perhaps call ahead (number is in the GG) to confirm opening times. Toulouse Lautrec is one of the few artists that I like (particularly the "poster art" for which he is probably best known), and I really enjoyed this museum. It’s located in the Palais de la Berbie*+. Don’t miss the formal gardens outside the palais. Albi is an interesting town to just wander in. There are informational plaques (also in English) affixed to the outsides of buildings. They describe the architecture & related historically significant events. Many of the old buildings had fallen into disrepair and had been slated for demolition in the 1970s. Instead, the City had refurbished them & they now provide “social” (low- income?) housing. In addition to viewing Albi from the Pont du 22 Aout 1944, view it from the old Pont Vieux. To get the absolute best view of Albi from a distance (and from where the picture in the Green Guide was probably taken), go all the way across the Pont Vieux bridge, and then start taking all the streets to the left that you possibly can. You won't be walking on any major roads - just streets that access houses. Keep walking farther than you think you should, until you hit a large wall at a dead-end. You'll see this view when you get there.

We've visited Albi three times - in '03, '04, and in '15.

Stay overnight in Albi.

Hotel
We stayed at the Hostellerie St Antoine in 2015 (prior trips were day-trips from the Gorges de l'Aveyron area). This is a very comfortable hotel, and perfectly located. They have a garage - but we're glad we parked in the large underground city lot nearby in Albi instead. Cost was the same for the lot and St Antione parking. www.hotel-saint-antoine-albi.com

Restaurant
It seems to me that there are no "fine dining/white tablecloth" restaurants in the old section of Albi. About 6 weeks before we arrived in Albi, I made reservations at a Michelin one star restaurant next to the Palais. When we arrived at our hotel, signs at the reception desk and in the elevator informed us that the restaurant had closed and the chef "had moved on". We ran around to several other "recommended" restaurants, but found nothing at all that appealed to us. We brooded for awhile, and then went to the Brasserie Le Pointie, which was in the large Place du Vigan at the main entrance to old town & just steps from our hotel. We had an enjoyable evening outside with casual dining, and "people watching".

Day 2.

Next stop is Carcassonne. There are two ways to get there - we drove them both in 2015. The simplest is the A68 towards Toulouse, the A61 clockwise around Toulouse, then the A61 to Carcassonne. This is not a scenic drive. It should take you 1 3/4 hrs to get to Carcassonne. The other route is via Castres*, and this should take slightly over 2 hrs. You'll need to switch to map 344 for both of these routes. The route through Castres is much more scenic, and we stopped in Castres for lunch and a 2 hr "walk around". My wife does all the driving, and although the route through Castres is more challenging for the driver - she preferred this route over the Autoroute route. However, after spending time in Sarlat and Albi - Castres may be quite disappointing, IMO. My wife liked it more than I did.

Use Map 344

Continue on the A61 and visit Carcassonne***, which is the largest medieval fortress in Europe. After you pass exit # 23, look for the signs for the "Aire" exit, and get off the A61 and drive to the Aire for great views of La Cite (the "walled" part of Carcassonne) from the distance. Many tour buses usually stop at this "aire" vista. Then get back on the A61 and take the #24 exit and follow the signs to “La Cite”. Drive all the way to La Cite until you see the entrance gates to the fortress. There is plenty of parking to your right if you arrive before 9:30. We were last there in mid June ’15 for 2 weeks, and we feared that it would be crowded like Mt St Michel - but it wasn’t. But you need to get there early, because it can get mobbed in the afternoon. Perhaps arrive at 9:00, and walk the perimeter of the village between the two walls first. Then walk into the village and wander the streets until 10:00 when you can get into the castle for a visit. Rent a headset and take a self-guided audio tour in English. The tour will take about 1 hour. Since almost all of the commerce in la Cite is tourist-oriented, I imagine that all stores will be open on Sunday. La Cite is a good choice for lunch. Later in our '15 two-week stay in Trebes (near Carcassonne), we met two friends for lunch at Comte Roger restaurant in La Cite and enjoyed it.

Unless you have lunch in La Cite, it is only a 2 1/2 hour visit.

Perhaps the best views of La Cite are from the Pont Neuf bridge between La Cite and the Bastide city (which is not part of the "walled" section) of Carcassonne. We did not walk over the older Pont Vieux - but the views from Pont Neuf of La Cite and Pont Vieux were spectacular. My wife took many of photographs of this view, and the best one ended up on the cover of her Shutterfly book that she made for our 2015 trip to the Languedoc. We also enjoyed walking through the Bastide city of Carcassonne. Lots of shops (including an excellent wine store) & outside cafes. Quite "active" also. I would not recommend it, however, if you are just visiting La Cite as a stopover between two other places.

After visiting Carcassonne, get back on the A61 freeway (see if the good view looks the same later in the day), and drive towards Toulouse. Take exit #22 off the A61, and head southwest on the D4, and then the D119 to Mirepoix. It should take you 1 1/2 hrs to get to Mirepoix.

Mirepoix++ is the one of our three favorite bastide towns. There’s a picture of it in the Green Guide. There are some very pretty outdoor cafes in the center square, and it would be a great spot for a slow lunch. This town is worth at least 10 photos. There are some nice shops in town too.

Switch to Map 343

After visiting Mirepoix, get on the D119 going west, and then the N20 south to Foix. It should take you 40 mins to get to Foix..

Foix* is a very "practical" non-touristy town and worth a visit. If you want to stay the night in Foix, we stayed at the simple hotel, which I don't recall. We dined at the Phoebus (closed Sun & Mon), which was excellent. Phoebus also has a nice view from the dining room. We didn’t have breakfast in the hotel, because the many cafes in town lured us – we ate at one across from a church. The fort is not interesting to visit. We stayed in a gite near Foix for 1 week in 2012 and watched a Tour de France stage pass our little village.

Another place to stay near Foix, is in Tarascon-sur-Ariege in a restored mansion - Le Manoir d'Agnes. http://www.manoiragnes.com/manor-hot...hp?language=gb . We had a very nice dinner at their restaurant, and because we love restored Victorian houses - we really enjoyed our chat with the owner who restored the mansion. Look for old photos of the mansion - I think they are displayed on walls in the hotel.

Here are some very interesting things to do close to Foix - if you arrive mid-afternoon. You probably only have time to do one of them. I suggest the Route Verte if you are not too tired of driving and the weather is nice.

Route Verte. Use map 343. See Foix in the Green Guide - Driving tour #1 This should take around 2 1/2 hrs - although the Green Guide says you should "allow" 5 hrs (for stops, suggested walks, etc.)
If you stayed in Foix, take the D17 west. If you stayed in Tarascon, drive to Foix and get on the D117 heading west. This D17 is the very pretty Route Verte**. It is described in the Green Guide. My Guide says that the road is often covered with snow at the Col des Marrous & therefore not open until mid June. In very early June we asked the person at the Foix tourist office about this, and she confirmed that it was not open yet in 2004. However, we set out anyway, and the Route Verte was entirely open and there was not a trace of any snow that might have prevented it from being open. There were signs posted just past Foix, which tell you if the cols are open or closed, & they said that the col was open. This is a beautiful drive - going over the the Col des Marrous, Col de Peguere, Sommet de la Portel** (15 mins RT) walk, and the Route de la Crouzette**. After the Route de la Crouzette, take the D18 south, then the road east to Massat, then the D618 & N20 back to Foix.

Attractions. Most of the places below are described on this web site
http://www.grands-sites-ariege.fr/

Visit the Parc de la Prehistoric ** Open 10-8. When you get to the ticket booth, reserve the Grotte de Niaux for some later day or time. Reserve an English tour. There is a discount for both the Parc Prehistoric and the Grotte. The Parc Prehistoric, especially the museum, is fantastic - we spent several hours visiting this new complex. don't miss.

Grotte de Niaux** 1 tour per day in English. don't miss

Underground river of Labouiche* 9:30-4:30 1 ¼ hr boat tour. This was a lot more interesting than I thought it would be.

Les Forges de Pyrene* 10-7 This has medieval tools - quite interesting.

Grotte de Mas d’Azil ** open 10-6 45 min guided tour.

What this day might look like.
fast-paced:
8:00-10:00 drive from Albi to Carcassonne:
10:00-12:30 visit Carcassonne & snack lunch
12:30-1:30 drive to Mireoix
1:30-2:30 visit Mirepoix
2:30-4:00 drive to Foix & check into hotel
4:00-6:30 drive the Route Verte

Slower pace:
9:00-11:00 drive to Carcassonne
11:00-2:00 visit Carcassonne & sit-down lunch
2:00-4:00 drive to Foix & check into hotel
4:00 visit one of the attractions around Foix.

Day 3
Back to map 344

Beautful scenery & Cathars castles
From Foix, take the N20 south to the D117 east through Lavelanet and then to Quillan. This should take you 1 1/2 hrs. I have not driven this route, so I don't know how scenic it is. The remainder of this route until you get past Maury is very scenic (done it twice).

From Quillan, head south to Axat, then east on the D117, and shortly you'll see signs for Puilarens and the Chateau de Puilarens*. Turn right/south and drive on the D22 to this chateau for the view. We visited the interior, and it was not as interesting as the exterior or the setting which were quite remarkable. Return to the D117 and continue east to Maury. The stretch from St Paul to Maury is very scenic.

As I indicated above, we've done this Route twice - once from Ceret and once from Carcassonne. In the summer, this region can get very hot. Standing in the sun and walking long distances uphill and over rocks to & through Chateaux can become very exhausting. Therefore, I suggest that you only hike to and visit the interior of one Cathars Chateau - Peyrepertuse would be my choice. If you get too tired from walking to several chateaux and exploring the interiors, you may run out of gas and cut this route short, which would be very unfortunate. Actually, this route is my favorite in the Roussillon region.

If you have not already done so, read about the Cathars faith and history in the Green Guide (or other guidebook) and learn about their religion, life, and fate.

My wife took a series of pictures of each of the Cathar Castles - beginning when each was just a speck on the top of the jutting rocks & then as we advanced closer & closer. Honestly, viewing these chateaux from the road allows you to focus on, and appreciate the awesome settings and the majesty of the ruins.

At Maury, drive north on the D19 through the Grau de Maury** to Chateau de Queribus**. The views from the parking lot area are outstanding. You may want to walk into a field near the parking lot to get even better views. Continue driving counterclockwise on the D123/D14. This is an extremely scenic road. Now, drive to Chateau de Peyrepertuse***. Take lots of pictures on the way there. Visit the interior, but be aware that some climbing & walking is necessary, so you’ll have to walk along dirt paths, over rocks, & through some low hung trees to get to the chateau. Also, walking around the Chateau is treacherous at times – but worth it. Plan on a 2 hour visit. Then continue driving west and then south to the fabulous Gorges de Galamus**. At times, the road is only 1 car width wide. We were there in mid June twice & we didn’t encounter another car – I don’t know what happens in July or August when there are more tourists. Actually, if I had it to do over again, I would find a place to park the car and walk along this gorge on foot. Many other people were doing that, and since it is flat and in the shade at times, it will not be as exhausting as climbing up to a Cathars castle. At the south end of the Gorges, there is a large parking lot with many "lookouts". Park the car there and view the bridge with the small "hermitage" below. You can actually walk to this hermitage - several people were doing it - but not us.

Take the D117 east to Perpignan.

I would suggest that you stay in Collioure or Banyuls if you want to stay near the coast, or in Ceret if you want to stay inland & perhaps take a scenic drive or two.

In Colloiure we stayed at the Casa Paifal several decades ago. In early May the "basic" room is 115E per night http://en.hotel-casa-pairal.com/

If you only have 2 nights available before your train to Barcelona, skip the Foix area and drive to Quillan from Carcassonne, and start the "route to Perpignan" from there.

Stu Dudley

Tommmo

Wow! That's fabulous Stu , can't thank you enough. Going to take some time to digest it all but suddenly we seem to have pierced the mysteries of that inscrutable area along the French border. Probably too many choices there - alas too little time , but I'm sure we'll tackle it with confidence now.
Cheers
Tom