I will be taking high school students to Switzerland toward the end of next April. Will be staying 2 nights in either Grindelwald or Wengen- Any comments on which location might be preferable. Also, we will be travelling by bus from Berne- Is there a prefered scenic route that we should take? Many thanks.

It might help us respond if you stated a few criteria on which you will base your perference decision. <BR><BR>In selecting between these two villages, I think you should consider that getting to Wengen involves riding the cable car up the hill from Lauterbrunnen, and then taking a small train along the shelf of the valley to M&uuml;rren. Or alternatively, the bus could reach the cable lift station in Stechelberg at the end of the Lauterbrunnen Valley. <BR><BR>Private vehicles are not allowed in M&uuml;rren. There is a big parking lot around the valley station in Stechelberg and there are also parking spaces in Lauterbrunnen. <BR> <BR><BR>Grindelwald, on the other hand, is reached by train and motor vehicle. <BR><BR>In comparing the two, M&uuml;rren is smaller and lacks the night life attractions of Grindelwald. If you have to chaperone a gang of wahoo high schoolers you might find that M&uuml;rren lacks the temptations of Grindelwald. On the other hand, what do you find for that bunch to do at night? <BR><BR>A preferred scenic route? I suggest you look at a map of Switzerland. There is not but one way to get to Interlaken without driving all over the place.<BR>From Interlaken there is exactly one way and one way only to reach the L&uuml;tschinen valleys.<BR><BR>In terms of scenery, you could strike out from Bern to Afoltern and then drive across the woods Canton Bern to Sarnen where the road descends at a very steep angle that should have all of you white knuckling it. Then you head south to Meiringen and descend the Brunig pass. I wonder, however, if a full sized bus could make it over that route. <BR>If you have a large group, I think it would be wise to start booking rooms now.

Bob- I guess I'm looking for a small, scenic, "Heidi" swiss village. The students are mature, well behaved. If we did choose Wengen, is it much hassle getting from there to Grindelwald. Thanks for your informative response. dk

M&uuml;rren has some of the best views of the Jungrau, M&ouml;nch and Eiger you will find. The Berner Oberland Breithorn is also very beautiful, but not quite as high as the Jungfrau. (There are several Breithorns in the Alps.)<BR><BR>To get to Grindelwald from M&uuml;rren, the route is a little complex. If you have a bus parked at the Stechelberg Luftseilbahn valley station, it would be considerably simpler. Take the cable way to the parking lot and get on the bus and drive to Grindelwald.<BR>If you must use local transportation, I suggest taking the little train to Grutschalp, descend on the cable car that runs on tracks, and take the regular BOB train to Zweil&uuml;tschinen.<BR>There you change for Grindewald.<BR>It will be necessary to check the schedules for the trains. Right now after the 6 PM departure from Grindelwald, the timing of the train to get you back to Lauterbrunnen is poor.<BR><BR>I will be there next month and in consulting the schedule I saw that if I miss the 6 PM train, the next connection means an hour wait at Zweil&uuml;tschinen.<BR>Zweil&uuml;tschinen is a village where the two branches of the L&uuml;tschine River meet. Grindelwald is to the east along one branch; Lauterbrunnen is south along the other one.<BR><BR>I think if I were there for two nights only, I would want the best views of the Alps. I am of the opinion that M&uuml;rren offers these views. Grindelwald is scenically located too, but I like M&uuml;rren better. <BR><BR>My strategy has been to stay in Lauterbrunnen, but I am there at least a week each time I go. I found a satisfactory apartment that is only a 5 minute walk from the train station.<BR><BR>Because of its central location, transportation from Lauterbrunnen to Grindelwald, Wengen, and M&uuml;rren is readily available during the day.<BR><BR>May in those resort areas is sort of a down season. Many hotels close during that period while the staff takes a holiday and updates and rennovations can be completed. That time of year is post ski and pre summer. In your searching for a hotel, you need to ask about any spring closings.

Bob- Many thanks again. We will begin the hotel search. A friend of mine really loved Wengen so I guess I'm leaning there. Will spend time in Grindelwald as well.

Color me half blind!! I had a M&uuml;rren fixation when I responded to your post.<BR>You asked about Wengen. W E N G E N<BR>OK, I have been there, too.<BR><BR>It is on the east side of the Lauterbrunnen within sight out of my apartment window. Getting to Wengen is easy! When the BOB train from Interlaken Ost pulls in, you get off, walk across the tracks, and get on the Wengner Alp Bahn (WAB) and ride up the hill. It is a simple transfer and the trains are timed to each other.<BR>The reason for the train is the steepness of the route. The WAB train is a cog rail that uses a drive wheel with teeth to propel the train.<BR>From Wengen, there is a Luftseilbahn (air cable line) that takes you to the crest of the M&auml;nnlichen, the huge ridge that walls in the Lauterbrunnen valley on the east. It rises sharply above Wengen. You have good views from Wengen, and several trails lead out from there.<BR>You can also easily ride up to Kleine Scheidegg, which a pass in the ridge.<BR>From Kleine Scheidegg you get a great view of the Eiger's famed north wall.<BR>KS is also the jumping off point for the last stage of the mountain train to the Jungfraujoch. <BR>It is a scenic location as well, and we can debate the relative merits of Wengen versus the other villages in the area. <BR>But I think it is a win win situation.<BR>Any of those places have good attractions.

One final fact that might help your planning. The last train from Interlaken Ost that makes connections to Wengen leaves about 11:30PM and arrives in Wengen shortly after midnight.<BR>From Grindelwald, the last train that makes a timely connection in Zweil&uuml;tschinen leaves at 18:20 (6:20 PM)<BR>Later departures are possible, but you will have a 30 minute wait.<BR><BR>It is possible to get back to Wengen via Kleine Scheidegg, but the last train leaves Grindelwald at 18:19. That route requires a much more expensive ticket. If you take the train via Zweil&uuml;tschinen one normal ticket costs 9.20&euro; the trip via KS costs 32&euro; one way. Double it for a round trip price.<BR><BR>

Bob- From what you said previously, it sounds like the most scenic route from Grindelwald to Wengen is via Kleine Scheidegg, yes? Merci mille fois! dk

Yes, the most scenic route between Wengen and Grindelwald is definitely the route that goes via Kleine Scheidegg.<BR>Because of the steepness of the grade from Wengen to Kleine Scheidegg, a different type of train engine is used.<BR>Therefore you must change at Kleine Scheidegg. <BR><BR>Both sections of the trip, Grindelwald to Kleine Scheidegg, and Kleine Scheidegg to Wengen, are on mountain trains. I think you see quite a bit of Alpine scenery on this route, with the north face of the Eiger being the most dominant feature.<BR><BR>Coming up from Grindelwald you have a more gradual ascent. Once you reach the crest at Kleine Scheidegg and descend on the other side toward Wengen the Eiger drops out of sight, but you can see the M&ouml;nch and the Jungfrau to the south, or to the left if you are facing the way the train is going. <BR><BR>As I stated in an earlier post, the ticket is much more expensive to travel via Kleine Scheidegg, but you also get an infinitely better look at the mountains. <BR><BR>The railroad bed from Lauterbrunnen to Zweil&uuml;tschinen and from Zweil&uuml;tschinen to Grindelwald is in a deep, narrow valley, and you don't see much but the sides of the valley and a few trees.<BR>In its own way the rushing branches of the L&uuml;tschine River are pretty, but you are so secluded that the snow capped peaks are out of view. <BR><BR>My favorite trip in the whole area is the gondola ride from Grindelwald to First (place name). Once at the First station, mountain trails lead higher to some of the most stupendous views in the Alps. If you have the stamina to walk all the way to the Faulhorn, you can see the main range of the Berner Oberland to the south while to the north you can see the two lakes on either side of Interlaken, the Thuner See and the Brienzer See, with Interlaken on a little flat piece of land in between.<BR><BR>Other than that, the views from the high point on the M&auml;nnlichen, the ridge that separates Lauterbrunnen and Wengen from Grindelwald, are world class.<BR>On a clear day, you can see the main range of the Berner Oberland quite clearly. I prefer the Faulhorn view, however, because you can see so much in all directions.<BR>Some people will argue that the Schilthorn is great. I don't deny that at all. I think because I went to the Faulhorn before going to the Schilthorn I found the Schilthorn to be anticlimactic. I did not feel that way about the Jungfraujoch because it is much higher and totally different because you are able to walk along a snow trail to other view points near the M&ouml;nchsjochh&uuml;tte - a mountaineering shelter that sleeps 125 people dormintory style. <BR>The drawback to the Jungfraujoch trip is of course the expense of getting there.<BR>But if the budget will tolerate the expense, and with a group you may be able to negotiate a discount, I think there is no other trip quite like it in Switzerland.<BR>

Bob- After reading your post I think I'll send my students on their way and I will remain in the Berner Oberland area for a few extra weeks. Parents may get upset but I'm nearing retirement anyway! I'm printing a copy of your posts to take with me. Thanks again! dk

Hi Bob:<BR><BR>I had to interject here to thank you for the excellent info you have provided for ALL the towns mentioned. You are exactly why I can overlook all the trash posters, and keep coming back to Fodors. THANK YOU!

Obviously I enjoy sharing information about the Berner Oberland. There are other regions of the Alps I also enjoy.<BR>Zermatt is one; Zinal and Grimentz are another. <BR>I am headed back for another week soon.<BR>I am not sure that I can quantify it, but there is something in those mountains I have found that draws me back. The Canadian Rockies have a similar appeal.<BR>Anyone who has walked the Whaleback Trail in Yoho, or hiked the high trail from O'Hara to Lake McArthur knows what I mean.<BR>The most fun we had in Lauterbrunnen was in 2000 when we were fortunate to have 7 consecutive days of sunshine. We bought the Berner Oberland Regional Pass and spent 5 days running up and down the hills on the trains and cable ways like a couple of kids. (Not quite as fast as 20 year old youngsters, but we had a good time.) <BR>This year our walking excursions will be shorter because of physical problems -- surgical knees and the like.<BR>But I don't think our enthusiasm for the area will be diminished.<BR>My knowledge of hotels in the area is non existent because I don't stay in them. We found an apartment in 1998 and we have gone back there each time.<BR>I suppose we could experiment and go different places, but the region is so compact in terms of transportation, that we can check in at the apartment and know what to do to get where we want to be with a maximum of efficiency.<BR> <BR>I think you will like the area if mountains appeal to you at all. So lay your plans carefully, and have a good time.<BR><BR>And, despite several visits, I have not explored every nook and cranny of the area. There a couple of places I have yet to go. So in a couple of weeks I hope to find something just up the road or along the trail that I have not yet seen.

Good point Lynn. There's trash on all sites, but whenever I've taken a trip the great info I've received from <BR>Bob and others here has been terrific. In a few years I will be looking for a apt/cabin to rent in Berner Oberland region- either in early spring or late fall. Have found some informative sites on this- does anyone have any favorites? Thanks...

I am going to be difficult and say neither. I would propose that you take them to Lauterbrunnen or Gimmelwald. Both have great hostels where the kids would fit in and have a great time.

Well, before deciding on Gimmelwald, bear in mind that it is very small.<BR>There is really not very much there in the way of cafes, etc. It has the hostles and a small hotel or two, but not much else.<BR>Lauterbrunnen does have ther advantage of being where the train lines meet.<BR>And there are a few hotels around, plus the hostle. I do see a lot of youngsters on the streets of the village.<BR>

Bob,<BR><BR>Thank you for your posts. It was very informative. I will be in murren for 3 nights. What do you think about the excursion to schynige Platte. Also any suggestion on a hiking trail around lauterbrunnen to cover all the falls in that area : trummelbach, staubbach, etc.

dk, I think Wengen would be a great choice. Grindelwald is not far, easy to get to. If you hike around and see the sights during the day, the kids(and you) may be ready to drop by evening. By the way, we were there several years ago in mid-April- I don't know if it was typical or we got lucky, but the weather was mostly clear and sunny. Enjoy!

Ok, first the falls. Trummelbach Falls are recessed deeply into the side of the valley. The water cascading over the rocks comes from the Guggigletscher and the Eigergletscher. There is an admission charge to the viewing areas. An elevator takes visitors up to the view points, which are illuminated. I enjoyed our visit there.<BR><BR>Staubbach Falls are/is a few dozen yards south of the church in Lauterbrunnen. If you walk south from the train station in Lauterbrunnen along the main street you will come to the falls. They will be in view soon after you leave the train station area.<BR><BR>The road passes in front of the falls and there is a path that leads underneath them. At night the falls are illuminated. <BR><BR>The distance between the falls is about 3 K. (I am estimating from memory here.) I found it a very pleasant walk from one to the other, or you can take the Post Bus. <BR><BR>Now, Schynige Platte. I think I need to put my impressions into context. It was the last of the major attractions in the area that I visited. Perhaps it is because it came last, I am probably not as enthusiastic about it as I would have been had I gone there first. I visited, in order, the Faulhorn, Stieregg, the Jungfraujoch, the Schilthorn, and Schynige Platte.<BR>By the time I got there, it was an anticlimax. I do not dispute with anyone who says the views from up there are tremendous, because they are.<BR>If I was limited in my choices, I would say GO!!<BR><BR>On the other hand, I think you see essentially the same views from the Faulhorn, and you see them better. Also, the gondola ride to First, where the Faulhorn trail begins, is more spectacular than the ride on the choo choo train to Schynige Platte. <BR><BR>However, you are going to be there in April and that may dictate what you do.<BR>Because I have never been there in April, I am not sure which rides are open and which ones are closed until later in the season.<BR>So this whole discussion may be moot.<BR>Let me suggest that you email the Jungfraubahn folks at <BR>[email protected]<BR><BR>and ask them the key question:<BR>What excursions will be open in late April?<BR>The Jungfraujoch trip is listed on the schedule for this past April. Because that trip is so popular, and such a cash cow, the Jungfraubahnen folks make every effort to keep that stretch of track open.<BR>

dk- I stayed in Wengen a few years ago with students and they loved it, as did I. Yes, easy to get to Grindelwald if you want to browse in the shops etc. And Bob, my thanks to you also for all the info.

I will soon be back for a refresher course on the Berner Oberland. Looking forward to stopping by von Allmen's bakery, too. Let's hope the weather smiles on me for at least 3 days out of 7.<BR><BR>