sandralist

The OP has not asked the crowd on Fodor's to interfere with her family life and her affections for her husband's daughter. She is asking for help in estimating the costs of travel in 3 cities for a group of 3.

Despite being scolded for pointing out the people responding to this thread have no direct recent personal experience of traveling with a teen in the cities mentioned (if you disagree, please provide links to travel reports from the most vocal of the above posters), I will underscore it again for the benefit of the OP.

The availability of apartment rentals and sites like AirBnb have dramatically reduced the costs of lodgings in all the cities the OP is targeting. Likewise the availability of low cost airlines and pre-booked train travel.

It would be truly a shame if the OP cancelled the trip out of the belief it would cost $20,000 just to do it comfortably or abandoned the daughter or cut back on the itinerary.

AimeeHoag,

There is some good information in this thread but you really do need to go much beyond what you are reading here to start dealing with estimating the actual costs. Although I don't think you should hire a travel agent, you should also at least ASK a few travel agents for their estimates of typical costs (including asking them when they last booked such a trip for a group of 3). But you also need to look at apartment rental websites, airbnb, go to other message boards. In particular, try the Slow Travel website for planning a trip with apartment stays.

sandralist

PS: Fodor's will howl at my suggestion to ask a few travel agents, but go ahead and do it anyway. Because travel agents don't deal in apartment rentals, you will get a very good sense of how much many you will save by comparing those costs with costs you research using apartment rental websites., etc.

I wanted to add that if it is possible to extend the number of days you can travel, it can actually work out to be not more expensive if you are traveling to multiple cities.

sandralist

It can also be fun and instructive to read a site like Eurocheapo to dispel notions that a budget choice is necessarily an uncomfortable choice. But mainly, you just need to be aware of how many choices there are out there today.

http://www.eurocheapo.com/blog/shoul...t-depends.html

sandralist

You might find these sections about what you can expect to spend in Paris, Berlin and London relevant and a basis for discussion on message boards:

http://www.eurocheapo.com/paris/feat...end-paris.html

http://www.eurocheapo.com/berlin/fea...nd-berlin.html

http://www.eurocheapo.com/london/fea...nd-london.html

also look for tips about student discounts for the youngest member traveling

Gretchen

Sandra does deal in revisionist thread history.
says she"Most people answering you have not been where you are going, or if they have, they have not been there in years and YEARS. Hence the need to do your own research"
More recent opining by Sandra--we hurt her feelings so badly--<Despite being scolded for pointing out the people responding to this thread have no direct recent personal experience of traveling with a teen in the cities mentioned>

But on to the "ask a tour agent". Travel agents notably deal in the OP's desired 4 and 5 star properties, (AND usually have never seen them in person, so I can pick those out of a book pretty easily) and the cost will make your eyes water compared to what we on a Fodor's thread ferret out by hard work--or just internet surfing of sites that list them.

and finally, Sandra again takes us to task "It would be truly a shame if the OP cancelled the trip out of the belief it would cost $20,000 just to do it comfortably or abandoned the daughter or cut back on the itinerary."

Very few suggested that the teen be left at home. And yes, it can be done for less that $20,000--AIMEEHOAG is the one that came up with that number--not us. Some of us came up with at least a soupcon of a realism that makes Aimee's first estimate questionable.

She is the one that will have to decide to do all 3 destinations and for how long. Another way to cut costs is to decease the faraway place--or the one least desired by someone.

Budget choices are not at all uncomfortable--we travel on one all the time. BUT you have to set THE budget--and at least have a clue about what things mean in the place you are going (like the star system--ageain).
And it takes more planning as to where you eat and how, where you stay.
She could at least start all by herself and investigate the air fare. Have we told her/she said to get an open jaw?

Gretchen

Try this budget averaged--London may be more expensive, Paris and Berlin less. AND I'm doing dollars. The air fare will be in that currency--the rest in local.
Air fare per person--$1400--when you find an air fare you can live with, jump on it!!
Hotel per person $100/day--if that is your budget, find it, or find an apartment that fits it--or is less
Food/snacks per person - $100
Transportation/museum within cities--$15/day (average)--find out from a guide book what it may be.

Transportation between cities? London to Paris can be as little as $80 maybe, if you buy far in advance. Train between Berlin and Paris? Look it up.
Total transportation between cities _______?

Spending money?_______

Splurge dining--decide where and estimate the cost, and if it is to be more than once during the trip.

The point to Aimee would be. Set your budget and then look for accomodations that fit into it. When we go, we research many restaurants within our price range and bring information about them--or go ahead and make reservations. The internet is an amazing tool to USE.
Get a couple of guide books--they have the entry cost--your teen won't have to pay. I don't think there are many other discounts (like air fare and hotel).

Aimee began the thread by wanting luxe accomodations. She can still go to Europe but maybe not on her idea of luxury--and she can still have an incredibly wonderful trip.

AimeeHoag

Thank you everyone for some break downs and links for me to look at.

I apologize for calling the star rating "bogus," I was just using that word in terms of it not being the exact same way we look at it in the states. I understand it's still useful, but that I need to be looking at it in terms of amenities rather than what people thought of it.

SD will be coming with us. I appreciate you all finding ways for us the cut down on costs, but this trip, as someone mentioned, will be us celebrating the unity of officially being a family.

The reason we want a kitchen is because we do not want to eat out for every meal. We know kitchens are small in Europe, which we are fine with. That one is kind of a nonnegotiable, so we will find a way to make it for into our budget whenever we come up with one.

We would definitely be able to fly out midweek, so I will look into those prices and look at the websites I have been advised to look at. Had I not come here to this form, I would not know about many of those sites.

Sassafrass

Based on all the trip planning threads, people here travel all the time, everywhere, some with teens, parents, groups, etc. They may not bother writing reports because they know new posters simply post their plans and ask questions specific to their needs. They may feel, why write a report about visiting Istanbul or Cappadocia or Provence or Paris, when others have already done it beautifully? I enjoy trip reports, especially by posters who are interesting writiers, but trip planning threads offer a variety of solutions to problems from people who have managed similar trips in very different ways. It is nice to know the options. So don't discount advice just because a poster has not written travel reports.

This is an open forum. People who have had a particular experience, personal or travel or both, may have insight that I do not and would not have thought about. They may know about options of which I am not aware. I appreciate when they take the time to share it. OTOH, I may have experience in something that another poster doesn't have. We are all free to take or leave the advice as it seems appropriate to us.

For this OP, there are pros and cons of hotel vs apartment. Early on I mentioned airbnb, but on a first trip to Europe,

Sassafrass

Oops,
On a first trip to Europe, there is something to be said for plopping bags in a hotel and heading out to explore. OTOH, an apartment gives a sense of having a home to come back to at the end of the day, although some hotels manage to do that also. Certainly, with a teen, having the space of an apartment would be nice.

janisj

>>(if you disagree, please provide links to travel reports from the most vocal of the above posters), I will underscore it again for the benefit of the OP.<<

Of course -- sandralist/zeppole/all of her other previously banned screen names has never once posted a Trip Report of any sort . . .

AimeeHoag: I think taking your step daughter along is a perfectly fine idea. I've known several couples w/ second/mid-life marriages that have taken their children on the post wedding trip (they didn't always call it a <i>Honeymoon</i> however ).

Taking her won't add a full 1/3 to your costs but it will add a significant amount. But you have plenty of time to plan/save. There are lots of ways to economize -- apartments for sure, the 2for1 sightseeing discounts in London, 1/2 price theatre tickets at TKTS etc.

Gretchen

The good part of a hotel (and they won't be staying longer than maybe 4 days) is that you have a concierge to help with the arrangements/reservations/advice. I worry a little that a kitchen is non-negotiable, but fine if it can be done. But eating out every meal for 11 days (think of options like picnics, cafes, etc.) is far from an impossibility, IMO, having done it on a number of occasions.

nytraveler

I agree that I would not reco an apt for first-time travelers unless they have small kids and really need an apt type space for sleeping arrangements and kids meals and snacks. I think having the support of a hotel is goof for a first trip.

But if the OP is insistent on cooking on vacation (I don't cook at home so there is no way I would do it there - and you can get mini-fridges in hotel rooms - all we need for drinks) then that is their decision - but they will need apts and should start looking for them now.

Also - trips can easily be done for less. But the OP asked for a "touch of luxury" so I used moderate - not budget prices.

Sassafrass

Gretchen, very valid advice and concern.
Shopping, preparing food and cleaning up takes time that first time visitors might wish to spend sightseeing. When we rented a house in Provence, I wanted to go to the big markets and live local for a few days. In a big city, however, I don't want to spend the time or have the extra work, and enjoy sitting out at a cafe in the morning for tea or coffee and a croissant, or send DH out to bring stuff back to the room. There are so many great little street markets in European cities. Sometimes, we are too tired to bother eating out, so do eat in our hotel room - just bread, cheese, wine, fruit, pastry - great food - no kitchen needed. Everybody learns from experience what they will enjoy and the OP will also.

Gretchen

Exactly--a picnic in the room--wine, cheese, bread!! But then, a picnic on the Champs de Mars with the Eiffel Tower in the background works also!!

janisj

I almost never cook any full meals on vacation . . . but rent flats more often than not. An apartment w/ a kitchen has many advantages (and a couple of disadvantages) Main advantages are usually cheaper for the same quality, a LOT more space than most European hotel rooms, a washer/dryer, a fridge for cold drinks/milk etc, ice, late night snacks, having breakfast in my jambes instead of having to dress and go downstairs.

Maybe a good compromise would be apartHotels like Citidines. The advantages of a flat plus hotel amenities.

janisj

I hate autocorrect >>my jammies<<

Gordon_R

>>Maybe a good compromise would be apartHotels like Citidines. The advantages of a flat plus hotel amenities.<<

I was thinking that too. An aparthotel might be a good choice in this context. I personally have been disappointed with Citadines, and much prefer the more up-market Adagio chain (which has many properties in French cities and a few in other countries):-
www.adagio-city.com/‎

Sassafrass

Janisj, jambes is nice - kind of jamming and resting at the same time.

tinarose

Why Berlin, Paris and London? Paris and London are close together but Berlin is farther away. Paris and London would fill two weeks for me. One way to spread the money out is to stay overnight in a smaller village. When I was planning my first trip I opened a word doc and pasted everything into it until I knew what I wanted to see. (i'd use one note now) You can share the doc with each other and everyone contributes to the research. I stayed 3 days near Giverny to see the countryside and Monet and it was super relaxing and more luxury than I could afford in Paris. It would be a good break from the busy cities that you want to visit. It takes a while to settle into a place anyway when you travel and I recommend just 2 major cities for a first trip especially with a teenage girl. She'll go on her own again some other time and hopefully you will too. remember that you,ll want down time, even more than at home.

AimeeHoag

I chose London, Fiancé chose Berlin, Future SD chose Paris.

I will look into the aparthotels you guys spoke of.