PalenQ

n France at least restaurants are cheaper than in the States for an equivalent value>

Not at all in my experience - take a McDonalds restaurant - about double for everything in France IME - not just because of the 20+% VAT tax included but employees in French restaurants all get mandatory health-care coverage from their employer - my French in-laws tell me and I understand that to be the case and food handlers get decent wages - all in all the cost of doing business makes French restaurants to me at least across the board much more expensive than American counterparts where wait folk get in most restaurants are pooerly paid and get no benefits at all.

And food is more expensive in supermarkets IME - significantly more for the years I've been Carrefouing at least.

So my experience differs from Michael's dramatically.

CathyM

I've found hotels in Spain to be significantly less expensive then in the US. Next week I'm staying 5 days at the Homewood Suites in an Atlanta suberb and it's costing me nearly double the price of an apartment in Sevilla in September and a 4* hotel in Laguardia - just to name a few. I can vacation in Spain cheaper than I can in the US not including the additional cost of airfare.

Michael

<i>take a McDonalds restaurant </i>

Maybe I should have qualified my comment: I do not go to fast food restaurants in France. McDonalds and other establishments of that ilk simply do not fit in my view of what is a restaurant.

As for supermarket food: Meats are not necessarily more expensive. Look at the sale freezer in a Super U. In fact, the local butcher, who normally has meat prices at the level of specialty butchers in the States ($16-$20 per pound for steak) was selling bœuf bourguignon meat with no waste because he trims the meat before weighing it at 6€ a kilo.

PalenQ

I am comparing prices in my local supermarket with prices I have compared for similar products in my local Carrefour in France, which I have been visiting at least annually for decades and my store is usually much cheaper than the largest retailer in Europe - not on everything - wine, bread and cheese are cheaper but most things you can add 20% or so - so we have very different experiences

And McDonalds was only an example of why prices in restaurants in general are indeed in my experienced at least significantly higher than here - the higher cost of labor - costs mandated by law - my French in-laws were just here and they were once again shocked at how cheap average restaurants at least were here compared to there - especially the $4.99 breakfast specials - hash-borwns, eggs, toast, coffee for a price of a croissant and single coffee (no free refills) in France.

PalenQ

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...=United+States

This cost comparison charge shows exactly what I saw - all types of restaurants in France are way more expensive than counterparts here - supermarkets not so dramatically but still most items more than here.

Nuff said!

BigAleinstein

Even in Paris, you can go to a crepe restaurant or those that specialize in moules frites and get a good baragin.

I live in NYC and many visitors complain about the high price of restaurants. Well sure, if you are in the tourist areas the vast majority are more expensive than in the residential areas and those less traveled. But there are all sorts of value restaurants in Manhattan. The same is true when you travel.

BigAleinstein

This was incredulous but I was open to fact, but could not find any.

BigAleinstein

Sorry folks, my posting at 3:50 belonged on another thread. But I will keep it among my favorites because I am sure It could be used over and over again on other threads.

PalenQ

FLUNCH restaurants and their ilk - no doubt despised by many tourists as too tacky are however a huge favorite with the French themselves - FLUNCHs are all over France and Paris and for about 10 euros or so you get unlimited buffer offerings of veggies and salads and a portion of meat - carafes of wine for a few euros, etc. One place where you can get unlimited non-meat for a fraction of the price in a proper restaurant where you'd pay much more and probably leave the place still hungry.

And you do not have to deal with IME often surly waiters - a big different in France and most of Europe where there is a service charge included and wait people do not have to grovel for tips - yes perfunctory service but proper service done as the professional they view themselves as being.

Again I think Michael is only talking about the very top and most expensive restaurants in his comparison and never goes into a more ordinary restaurant that most French do (IME average French rarely go to restaurants compared to Americans).

Michael

The difference between grocery store prices and restaurant prices in France, the former high and the latter low compared to the States, has always been striking. But States and French prices are joining each other. This is what I paid for a plat du jour a couple of years ago: "We arrived in Sanguinet around lunch time, and stopped in the local eatery for lunch; the plat du jour with wine and coffee came to 8€ (http://www.cafedulac.fr/ --a pretentious web site for what it is)", which means that for a little less than $11 I had a full meal with wine and coffee. This was in the province; Paris prices would be higher, although even that depends on the neighborhood. In the States, the wine itself, even if only <i>plonk</i>, would have cost $5. To quote listed price is the States is to forget about the added local tax and the tip.

PalenQ

France United States Difference
Restaurants [Edit] [Edit]
Meal, Inexpensive Restaurant 12.00 € 7.63 € -36.42 %
Meal for 2, Mid-range Restaurant, Three-course 45.00 € 34.33 € -23.71 %
Combo Meal at McDonalds or Similar 7.00 € 4.58 € -34.61 %
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter draught) 5.00 € 2.48 € -50.41 %
Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 4.00 € 3.43 € -14.17 %
Cappuccino (regular) 2.50 € 2.67 € +6.81 %
Coke/Pepsi (0.33 liter bottle) 2.45 € 1.14 € -53.29 %
Water (0.33 liter bottle) 1.50 € 0.95 € -36.42 %

Naw I think the chart is of total costs but can't see - anyway restaurants are about 35% higher - no tax and tip makes up for that - the real difference is in drinks - like coke in a restaurant being 50% higher - and that coffee - no refills like free refills of bottomless cups in the U S - there is NO way that French restaurant prices are not much higher than in the U S - no way and again I attribute it to the significantly increased cost of labor - mandated health care coverage - long vacations, etc. This should be obvious to the most casual observor, michael! Yes there are exceptions - those are averages and again I think reflect total cost.

But States and French prices are joining each other>

do you have any proof of this? I have offered a well-known and trusted survey - you offer some personal experiences in a backwater of France.

PalenQ

and ignorant Americans are even likely to tip wait people en France!

Michael

<i>do you have any proof of this?</i>

Next time I'm in the Dordogne, I might remember to jot down the prices in the meat and cheese counter and will compare them with our local Safeway; but don't hold your breath.