Sue_xx_yy

The passenger monicapileggi's husband had thrown off the plane wasn't thrown off because he had tried to be a helpful and credible witness but because he had abrogated authority from airport security, who would be the proper people to whom to go if one had any genuine suspicions. It is not up to any given passenger to hold himself an authority to whom pilots or indeed anyone else should hold themselves accountable.

Furthermore, a credible witness would have stuck to reporting only such relevant firsthand observations as he or she had made, as in: "The pilot of flight xxx appeared flushed and his breath smelled sweet to me" (or whatever it was they observed that had aroused their suspicions.) A credible witness does NOT undertake to try and interpret those observations, along the lines of "the pilot of flight xxx appeared to be drunk". Nor does he attempt to intimidate the pilot into surrendering information, as the passenger did in this case. And yes, to demand accountability is intimidating, and an outrageous thing to do when one hasn't the authority to do so. Besides, it's ineffective to ask someone presumably incapable of sound judgement to render a judgement about their sobriety.

The passenger's calmly taking his seat subsequent to asking the question is akin to those jerks who used to joke about bombs whilst in airports, until it became an offense to do so. But just as when a bomb is reported, Tony had no choice but to treat his being accused of drinking with utmost seriousness.

sfowler

I understand Tony's position, but when we have completely lost our sense of humor the terrorists have indeed won!

StCirq

I don't think it's a question of losing our sense of humor but rather of Tony doing what he has to do to be sure he keeps his good standing as a pilot. Apparently he felt threatened enough by this guy that he thought he had to exonerate himself before flying that plane, that's all.

He did that. It took some time. The plane left late - they do that all the time. I don't have a problem with it at all. Some jerk boards a plane and starts claiming that the pilot's drunk when he's not - seems pretty smart to me for the pilot to get the definitive proof he's not drunk before he takes that plane off.

LoveItaly

Thanks Monica, I too am glad my daughter ran over to the neighbor (who besides being an AF serviceman just returned from Iraq is also with another county's Sherrifs Dept). And later on I did some discreet checking on this painter and he obviously does have some problems. That has been the only time I have ever hired someone that turned out to be a problem. I guess from all of my years owning an insurance agency I am possibly more "tuned" into people than perhaps the average person. In fact looking back on the situation I realize I should never have hired him for the job to begin with. One of the few times I didn't listen to my sixth sense. Lesson learned.

About your Tony...from the time I was a little girl I was informed that the captain of the ship is in control (lots of Navy people in my family and my grandfather was a Navy Captain). As I grew older I was told that the pilot of the airplane was in control.

That is my viewpoint to this day. When I get on an airplane I put my life in the hands of the pilot. I expect him to make good decisions based on his knowledge, education, experience and sixth sense. I would hope Monica that all airline pilots handle unusual situations in the same intelligent manner that your husband did. I salute your husband Tony! And Happy New Year to both of you!!

monicapileggi

Thanks for the latest comments. It seems that with Tony's words, there is a clearer understanding of what happened and what he (sometimes) has to deal with.


Robespierre, do let us know if the smoking into the sink works! Just don't get caught.

On a side note, I happened to Google FAR 121.575 and found this document: http://www.ofainc.com/newsletters/1998/ofapg5.html

Happy New Year to everyone. Let's fly safe in 2006.

Monica

Robespierre

I haven't had a cigarette since 1980

NorthShore

I don't think your husband's response clears up anything.

He got even the only way he could, using his power as the plane captain. All this "Tony’s livelihood was threatened" stuff is a smoke screen.

Being human, I expect most of us would have done the same thing.

JSLee

Some people get out of hand no matter what, but many people are not trained to handle intoxicated people, this includes law inforcement personnel.

I've seen boistereous drunk people act "ok" until someone starts pushing them around.

After the deregulation of air lines, a man was arrested for "threatening" and disturbing everyone on the plane. He said "get this plane in the air or get us out of it." Take-off delay of three hours, 115 degrees outside, no cooling on the plane, and the line refused to deplane. Several lawyers were on the plane, made quick notes of everything, and got all the passengers to sign the complaint against the airline. The airline quickly drop the charges , but they were sued anyway.

This man may well have needed to be gotten of the plane. As far as the airline trying to get their money back for the expense, it was their idea and not his.

DKay

I am a flight attendant. We take everything on a airplane very serious. If someone asked if I had been drinking I would immediately consult with my captain and ask him to advise me on my actions. It would be very upsetting to me if a passenger made such a statement. #1. Why would he say such a thing? #2 I would be very uncomfortable. Is this passenger looking to cause me trouble during flight? Passengers don't realize that we listen and watch everybody on the plane,and the passengers have all eyes upon us. During a flight. Our job is for everyones safety,and to make everyone as comfortable as possible. What if you as a passenger overheard that statement? Wouldn't you start looking at the flight attendant a little differently? We don't need that,we want you to feel comfortable and confidant that we have your utmost safety in mind. Please watch what you say on your next flight, if you have made me as an FA uncomfortable and I have felt threaten in anyway, you too could be off the flight.

NorthShore

"Please watch what you say on your next flight, if you have made me as an FA uncomfortable and I have felt threaten in anyway, you too could be off the flight."

Gross over-reaction mode above.

A little power goes a long way, especially for those who have never had any. I guess its too much to ask that common sense prevail.

monicapileggi

Well North Shore, apparently you probably have never been responsible for the lives of 250 people. Have you ever had to make a decision for anyone but yourself. You are the type of person who can't be reasoned with. So I will not even try.

Tony

NorthShore

Tony, I have had responsibilty for way more than that, and made plenty of life or death calls so don't give me that line of bull. No brag, just a fact.

Use common sense, be calm, don't let it get personal, don't think you are the king of Siam and don't abuse your authority - try it some time, it's much easier than you might think.

nytraveler

Well - I've been on planes with drunks a couple of time - pre/911 - and I wish they had made a stop and dropped them off. Their behavior was loud and boorish, staggering up and down the aisle - and in one case vomiting on another passenger. Their language vulgar - to say the least (one word I had actually never heard before, even after 25 years of riding the Broadway local) and frankly I did feel we were in danger of being harmed - even if inadvertently.

The safety of the plane is the responsibility of the pilot - and all final decision are his. Anyone who doesn;t like that idea shouldn;t fly.

And if some jerk finally gets the comuppance for his ridiculous behavior (and perhaps if he had faced the consequences of his behavior before he wouldn;t be such a jerk) then I'm all for it.

I am a strong believer in individual rights - but the activities of those who misbehave on planes is the equivalent of shouting fire in a crowded theater - it goes beyond free speech and endangers the rights - not to say safety - of everyone else involved.

DKay

Well Northshore, may I suggest you take the bus,because when your on a airplane the Captain is in charge and control of all things including the Flight attendants. And yes if a flight Attendant feels threated you could be grounded. It has nothing to do with egos or power! What is has to do with is your safety along with the safety of all other passengers. If you call that power-- whatever, According to the FAA I don't have to put up with any type of abuse on a flight. If you don't like it... don't fly because thats how it is and it the law. It's because of our passengers we have jobs, so you can bet that we want all passengers to enjoy our flights and you can bet if a person is taken off a flight there is a good reason for it. Do us all a favor, if you don't like it,don't fly. But most of all don't be Stupid.

Scarlett

We have been on planes over the years with plenty of drunks..
Last time was last July when we flew out of Jax and changed planes in Atlanta.
My poor husband sat next to a stinking stupid drunk who was loud and did not shut up and kept asking us personal questions.
What did the flight attendants do?
Looked, shook their heads and made "sorry" faces.
We were on our own, had to deal with him the best we could.
So while I am thinking a person can be taken off of a plane for just saying something is a bit extreme, I am ALL for taking drunks off the minute they are noticed.
Maybe WE should take the breathalyzer tests before boarding LOL.

NorthShore

DKay, I've got a feeling you are a real pleasure to fly with, but I doubt you would cut it on my plane.

LoveItaly

NorthShore, are you a pilot for a commercial airline??

AnthonyGA

It's a good idea that Tony got a breathalyzer test to prove that he was not intoxicated, but it's a very bad idea to throw a paying passenger off a plane just because he asked about it. Asking about safety is never a mistake, no matter how much it bruises the over-inflated ego of a pilot. A pilot who cannot take that type of question thinks too highly of himself to fly; his pride may interfere with his judgement.

Additionally, there are other drugs that don't show on a simple breath test. If the pilot takes a breath test but then throws off anyone who asks questions, I find myself wondering what else he might of taken, and how he will behave in an emergency if he has to choose between his ego and doing the right thing for the safety of the aircraft.

opaldog

I'm all for throwing drunken passengers off the plane or at the very least, give the poor passenger sitting next to him/her another seat. It happened to me on a Virgin Atlantic flight from lhr to ewr. The man next to me was incoherent, staggering drunk and had his own supply of alcohol which he managed to stagger to the bathroom with every couple of hours. He also appeared to be taking pills. He was leaning all over me and drooling. I attempted to push him off and keep him on his side of the seat, but it wasn't easy. The flight attendant told me that it was not possible that he was drunk as they were monitoring alcohol intake and that the plane was full anyway and there was nothing they could do. I suffered thru it for 8 hours. I didn't dare make a fuss myself for fear of reprisals by the flight attendants who were openly annoyed by my complaint. When I wrote to Virgin Atlantic about it, I never heard from them. I don't plan to fly them again.

monicapileggi

AnthonyGA, Tony actually had a blood test, which is why it took 2 hours for him to return to the airplane.

No, it wasn't ego or power on Tony's part. As DKay stated, "...If you call that power-- whatever..." I say Ditto.

Monica