just

FYI: During my recent trip to Paris, we were regularly hit up by women, often carrying babies (or a package that looked like a baby) in the train station (Gare du Nord) and near major attractions (in the Touileries (sp?) and even in the bathroom near Notre Dame). After having read the discussions about Gypsies on this forum, and despite protests against stereotyping, I must admit that all of these women had the same complexion that is attributed to Gypsies. I found the situation both sad and pathetic. I also thought, though, that there must be an easier way to make money (rather than being rejected a thousand times a day). Have any of you contributed to these beggars? Is there a respectable charity that would be a good alternative?

David

I may get flamed for this but I've always seriously wondered. It seems to me that the obvious, begging women with the very small children in Europe, are actually a disguise/distraction for the real activity that is going on around them, pickpocketing.<BR><BR>My ONE and only one experience (and one isn't many) was in Florence in 1994. While a begging woman with a small child was pleading with tourists, a 10 year old boy was able to come up from behind and steal a lady's wallet out of her purse. She was holding the purse behind her to keep it away from the "gypsy." All she was doing was pushing it into the hands of the pickpocket behind her. <BR><BR>While you're busy wondering about the plight of these poor souls and reaching around for change and such, you're a bit distracted and a more likely target for their, cohorts the pickpockets.<BR><BR>Does anyone else have any ideas about this?

redrum

The beggars and the buskers in Paris are an outrage. On the metro there were actually small, music combos consisting of a violin or two, guitar, tamborine, and TWO accordian players + a singer! All right up in your face. Parisians brag about the Metro over the Underground, but one rarely has to put up with that crap in London but it was every day/every ride in Paris. Furthermore, we were disgusted with the number of people who, not caring to pay like the rest of us, just jumped the turnstile. No one seemed to mind. It always made me wonder why I was stupid enough to pay.

Alyssa

We had more than several encounters with the gypsies last week in Paris. A little girl came up to us playing the harmonica at one point and there were a ton of them at Notre Dame and in the restrooms stairwells. Also the south Africans at the Louvre that wanted us to sign petitions for the starving children and then after you sign they want between 20-50 euro from you and they swarm on you like flys if you refuse. You really have to wonder just how much of that money gets to the starving children. On another note we were also passed a counterfeit 20 euro, so if anyone is going be careful if you are handed several bills at one. It was in the pile and we didn't even notice it.

Ronda

The same type of women were in Madrid and London when I was there last year. I Madrid a woman with a crying baby followed me (I was alone at the time). I felt very sorry for them until I noticed that she was pinching the baby's hand to make it cry!!!!<BR><BR>In London the same type of woman with child was working the neighborhood we were staying in. I would see her begging during the day so pathetically and then bring the money back to her husband drinking beer on the front porch!!!<BR><BR>The beggers that get me are the poor old people and the amputees (sp?) Are there no social services in Europe or are these people supplementing their income? I always keep change in my pocket and drop in some small amount in the cups of these people.

trying

Reminds me of the recent news story, of which I can't remembe any specifics, where a local panhandler who was being displaced (I think by local ordinance) brought suit through a local high powered law firm (suggesting she was making a pretty good income, likely tax free). Also, in my area, there is a panhandler that works a particular intersection, parking his Cadillac down the street. Chances are some panhandlers receive some form of assistance, but use the pandhandled cash (which is not disclosed or reported) to supplement their income. The combination could add up to a decent amount. Of course, there are those in need. I agree that it seems like it would be easier to work full time, than to panhandle full time, but what do I know.

mpprh

Hi<BR><BR>I'm not sure these people are gypsies.<BR><BR>Usually they claim to be displaced persons from Eastern Europe, which may be true.<BR><BR>On another tack, I spent several months house searching in the South of France and rented a beach appt (cheap in winter !).<BR><BR>Each evening a group of about 15 hippy types would sit in the empty shopping arcade, drink beer and play music. I started to recognise them at various busy junctions etc.<BR><BR>They covered the best begging areas, rotating the people each day. Some of these locations were 50 miles away ....... how ?<BR><BR>I finally spotted them early one morning getting into a van to go to work !<BR><BR>Peter<BR>

x

Whatever they are-gypsies or not-they are disgusting and I wish they would go away.

Beth

I was recently in Paris for a week and I only noticed "beggars" twice - they were women kneeling on the ground in an extremely suppliant pose which I admit was heartbreaking. Did I give? No, I wasn't about to show where my wallet was. But then, I live in a US city and don't give here either (except to organized charities). We did happen upon the metro musicians twice, but enjoyed them and put a few coins in the pot.

pam

I must admit, all the talk about pickpockets and gypsies and beggar children has me somewhat apprehensive about our upcoming family trip to France, Italy and England. I am prepared to be cautious and shoo them away, but are these people going to harass my teenage children, too? Or do they just concentrate on the "rich" adults?<BR>Pam<BR>

Alyssa

Pam,<BR><BR>Don't be apprehensive just aware. I was there with my 16 & 12 year olds. One of the artists tried to get my son to pose for a portrait and was a little persistant but that was it. Just keep walking and say no. We all watched each others backs and had no problems. Have a great trip!

Susan

It must be nice to be from a place in the US where you are so unacustomed to panhandlers and beggars that you are shocked to see them on the streets of Paris. I live in SF, so unfortunately the concept of beggars on the streets is nothing new. Neither is it unusual to see women with children begging. All this is to say that it is not the lack of social services in Europe that results in such beggars, but probably as is the case in SF, it is the availability of such services. We have the most generous local welfare benefit of any city in the Bay Area and consequently the most "homeless" enjoying those benefits.

Cat

<BR>I have found beggars to be very persistant in Paris. The key is to keep walking and saying NO in firm voice. No other conversation is needed.<BR><BR>This not just a Parisian thing. On a trip to Galway a few summers ago, We were approached by a group of children (part of what the Irish call "travelers" or "transients"). <BR>We were at some kind of a festival. My friend put some change into their pail. It did not seem to be enough. The 15-16 year old boys began following us and asking for more. Just said "TAKE A HIKE" and they left us alone. Persistance and firmness...are the keys.

jill

Well, being in NYC,I am not unaccustomed to seeing panhandlers.We have always had them in one form or another.But here we do not have the ones who drag their babies along to add to the "look" of being pitiful and poor.And as to the ones that lie on the ground so heartbreakingly-stand and watch for a while, sooner or later, they hop up and gather their begging supplies and saunter off to have dinner with the other con artists.<BR>I been in the the Bay Area, I have seen drunks sleeping it off in doorways,but never the sight of a mother and baby.Have you seen these gypsies in Paris to compare them? And nowhere in the US have I seen beggars come after people,grabbing and screaming.<BR>

irish

traveler-another word for gypsy.

Susan

Yes, Jill I have seen the beggars in Paris and in Rome also. And I was just in NYC. And when I went out of my office yesterday in downtown SF, on one corner was a woman with a baby begging, on the opposite corner was a man with a shopping cart passed out and on another was a man begging.

Vincent

Those gypsies are usually Romanian nationals, and the mother/baby act is totally rehearsed and employed by the men who are waiting at a camp outside Paris to cash the money in at the end of the day. When pickpocketing actually happens, it's usually another older kid who does it, so that he cannot be arrested under French law. It's very cynical, but it works. It is also cyclical, and now we seem to have more than last year.

perfomers/musicians

Please don't group Parisian street performers (musicians, mimes, artists, etc.) in the same group as panhandlers/beggars.<BR><BR>Street (or subway) performing is an established and accepted artistic form of making money. These folks are not usually aggressive, but if you watch the "show" put some money in the hat!

just

one thing that got me was how quietly the mother (typically very young mother at that) could approach, so that even as I was pulling bags out of the back of a cab, or seating myself in a cafe chair, they were right behind me when I turned around. Very stealthy. I would hope that some kind of child protective services would get involved in this.

Pam

Alyssa: Thanks for your posting. We will have a wonderful time and are counting down the days!<BR>Susan: No, we don't have many beggars where I live, but I have been to S.F. and most of the panhandlers there are just sitting around waiting (esp. around Union Square area) with their cups for handouts as opposed to actively accosting people.<BR>As for the "street entertainers," I don't mind giving them money -- they are earning it. The best ones are in New Orleans (the tap-dancing boys and the silver and gold painted human statues come to mind). At least they're working.<BR>Pam<BR><BR>