Beef Bourguignon
Jan 9th, 2008, 08:10 AM
#44
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The times I have ordered boeuf bourgignon in Burgandy and Paris it's alway been big chunks of beef with the bone! Always more delicious cooked on the bone. Regarding the Pied au Cochon, great place to have real French onion soup after the movies on cold winter nights. Not gastonomique as a place, but convivial and quick service.
Jan 9th, 2008, 08:20 AM
#45
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A silly little discussion but interesting! and about my favorite topic...food.
Most recipes seem to call for chunks 2" x 2".
is that chunks or pieces?
What is sold in supermarkets is often scraps, packaged to sell.
"boeuf pour bourguignon" in supermarkets is often bought for fondue bourguignon
I erred above... our favorite recipe, and we love this one, is from Epicurious
http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/104754
Most recipes seem to call for chunks 2" x 2".
is that chunks or pieces?
What is sold in supermarkets is often scraps, packaged to sell.
"boeuf pour bourguignon" in supermarkets is often bought for fondue bourguignon
I erred above... our favorite recipe, and we love this one, is from Epicurious
http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/104754
Jan 9th, 2008, 08:52 AM
#47
The size of the chunks obviously varies, but they do generally shrink while cooking. Naturally, anybody making the dish himself will choose whatever size he finds most appealing (ha ha - now I'll have the women on my back for the gender used!).
Beef touching any large bone is now generally forbidden in France, ever since mad cow disease. T-bone steaks are still banned as far as I know (since the two major steakhouse chains - Buffalo Grill and Hippopotamus - still haven't returned it to their menus although it was the most popular item, I suppose that confirms that it is still banned). However, I have seen marrow bones for sale at the supermarket, so there is still hope.
Beef touching any large bone is now generally forbidden in France, ever since mad cow disease. T-bone steaks are still banned as far as I know (since the two major steakhouse chains - Buffalo Grill and Hippopotamus - still haven't returned it to their menus although it was the most popular item, I suppose that confirms that it is still banned). However, I have seen marrow bones for sale at the supermarket, so there is still hope.
Jan 9th, 2008, 09:21 AM
#48
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<< but they do generally shrink while cooking.>>
K - I am afraid your expertise in the kitchen is going to be called into question. LOL I remeber this one from culinary school...
What causes meat to shrink is loss of moisture. It happens over 120 degrees F. when the longitudinal protein bundles begin to coagulate and give off moisture. In a stew, this moisture is replaced with the liquid (wine in this case). That is what makes stews so tasty. (and no "shrinkage" to use a Seinfeld term)
(Sorry I couldn't resist).
As to meat on the bone... I never knew! What an interesting piece of information. I guess this is since France cannot prevent importation of other EU beef.
I did notice that almost every restaurant in France now describes the origin of the beef that they are serving.
K - I am afraid your expertise in the kitchen is going to be called into question. LOL I remeber this one from culinary school...
What causes meat to shrink is loss of moisture. It happens over 120 degrees F. when the longitudinal protein bundles begin to coagulate and give off moisture. In a stew, this moisture is replaced with the liquid (wine in this case). That is what makes stews so tasty. (and no "shrinkage" to use a Seinfeld term)
(Sorry I couldn't resist).
As to meat on the bone... I never knew! What an interesting piece of information. I guess this is since France cannot prevent importation of other EU beef.
I did notice that almost every restaurant in France now describes the origin of the beef that they are serving.
Jan 9th, 2008, 09:57 AM
#51
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I think the reason why the origins of the beef need to be on the menus is a ban on US meats, and I think Australian beef was banned in 1992 for export to France. At one stage UK beef too because of the mad-cow out break. This was because of the hormonally fed animals and high doeses of antibiotics injected into them. As far as I know this is illegal in France, as well as genetically modified foods.
Also a market butcher told me that it's illegal to infra-red the meat (to age it quicker (about 2 days), as done in the US). Proper aged beef is done in cellars up to 28 days.
Though there may be some people who can throw more light on the subject, but this is perhaps another topic! Any butchers out there?
Also a market butcher told me that it's illegal to infra-red the meat (to age it quicker (about 2 days), as done in the US). Proper aged beef is done in cellars up to 28 days.
Though there may be some people who can throw more light on the subject, but this is perhaps another topic! Any butchers out there?
Jan 9th, 2008, 10:04 AM
#52
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""boeuf pour bourguignon" in supermarkets is often bought for fondue bourguignon"
Oh dear, no ! it would be inedible for fondue bourguignonne. The best cut for fondue bourguignonne is called "poire", very tender and pretty expensive.
Oh dear, no ! it would be inedible for fondue bourguignonne. The best cut for fondue bourguignonne is called "poire", very tender and pretty expensive.
Jan 9th, 2008, 10:19 AM
#53
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"Beef touching any large bone is now generally forbidden in France, ever since mad cow disease. T-bone steaks are still banned as far as I know".
Not any more.
Infra-red aging is indeed forbidden. So are tenderizers.
Restaurants describe the origin of the meat on the menu for marketing purposes. Customers feel safer..
Not any more.
Infra-red aging is indeed forbidden. So are tenderizers.
Restaurants describe the origin of the meat on the menu for marketing purposes. Customers feel safer..
Jan 9th, 2008, 10:30 AM
#54
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http://www.iht.com/articles/1999/04/23/beef.2.t_1.php
Sorry I got the date wrong, the ban on chemically enhanced US meat was imposed in 1989 not 1992.
As I enjoy reading the International Herald Tribune, I found this article. So far the ban has not been lifted, but you're right, Pvoyageuse, it does assure the customers when the menus mention where the food is from.
Even McDonalds advertise their meat is French produced!
Sorry I got the date wrong, the ban on chemically enhanced US meat was imposed in 1989 not 1992.
As I enjoy reading the International Herald Tribune, I found this article. So far the ban has not been lifted, but you're right, Pvoyageuse, it does assure the customers when the menus mention where the food is from.
Even McDonalds advertise their meat is French produced!
Jan 9th, 2008, 10:55 AM
#55
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Can we all just get along here?
I have taken into account all the reciepe's here for BB. And I have researched it in all the cooking books I have and all over the internet. And I tried to find the BFC show where she makes the BB but can't find it. I did find her version.
I'm putting BB on our Friday night menu next week. We only open for dinner during lent. And I know lent hasn't started, but my customer's are driving me nutts to start early this year. We do fish and other seafood stuff, but no everyone does the fish thing. So because of this thread I'm going to take the jump and try to make it. Wish Me luck. I will keep researching what type of beef I should use.
Thanks for all the great stuff here on this post. It really brought the whole post to life. I couldn't wait to get out of work to check what other stuff people had posted.
I have taken into account all the reciepe's here for BB. And I have researched it in all the cooking books I have and all over the internet. And I tried to find the BFC show where she makes the BB but can't find it. I did find her version.
I'm putting BB on our Friday night menu next week. We only open for dinner during lent. And I know lent hasn't started, but my customer's are driving me nutts to start early this year. We do fish and other seafood stuff, but no everyone does the fish thing. So because of this thread I'm going to take the jump and try to make it. Wish Me luck. I will keep researching what type of beef I should use.
Thanks for all the great stuff here on this post. It really brought the whole post to life. I couldn't wait to get out of work to check what other stuff people had posted.
Jan 9th, 2008, 11:02 AM
#56
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"I will keep researching what type of beef I should use."
You won't do better than a well marbled piece of chuck. Think same as for pot roast or other slow braised cuts of meat. You can decide the size of the chunks to cut it into. Certainly most patrons would expect to find it in smaller bite sized pieces.
You won't do better than a well marbled piece of chuck. Think same as for pot roast or other slow braised cuts of meat. You can decide the size of the chunks to cut it into. Certainly most patrons would expect to find it in smaller bite sized pieces.
Jan 9th, 2008, 12:03 PM
#58
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Do you care for a really tasty boef bourguignon?
I requires some care, but the result is very rewarding.
It is cooked on the stovetop, not in the oven and it requires 3 to 4 bottles of wine, not just one.
It goes like this: Brown meat and bacon in olive oil in a skillet (I prefer large, portion-sized chunks, although the traditional way is small cubes). Then add a small amount of red wine (one or two glasses). Leave the skillet uncovered and cook on medium-high heat. Add onions.
When the wine evaporates, the crucial moment occurs when the meat gets really tasty. Just before it starts to burn, add more wine. Repeat procedure several times (yes, it requires some attention).
After two hours or so, meat should start to become tender (by then, you should have poured at least three bottles of wine). Then add vegetables, carrots first, later mushrooms. Sprinkle with flour. Add more wine, bay leaves and a bouquet garni. When the meat starts to fall apart, the dish is ready.
The meat will have an aubergine color, almost black, and will be very tasty.
You can cook any other meat á la bourguignonne (rooster, pigeon, quail etc.), but then of course in less time until meat is tender.
This recipe is also great to cook just onions. You will get aubergine-colored, wine-soaked onions which make a perfect side dish to Burgundy-style dishes.
I requires some care, but the result is very rewarding.
It is cooked on the stovetop, not in the oven and it requires 3 to 4 bottles of wine, not just one.
It goes like this: Brown meat and bacon in olive oil in a skillet (I prefer large, portion-sized chunks, although the traditional way is small cubes). Then add a small amount of red wine (one or two glasses). Leave the skillet uncovered and cook on medium-high heat. Add onions.
When the wine evaporates, the crucial moment occurs when the meat gets really tasty. Just before it starts to burn, add more wine. Repeat procedure several times (yes, it requires some attention).
After two hours or so, meat should start to become tender (by then, you should have poured at least three bottles of wine). Then add vegetables, carrots first, later mushrooms. Sprinkle with flour. Add more wine, bay leaves and a bouquet garni. When the meat starts to fall apart, the dish is ready.
The meat will have an aubergine color, almost black, and will be very tasty.
You can cook any other meat á la bourguignonne (rooster, pigeon, quail etc.), but then of course in less time until meat is tender.
This recipe is also great to cook just onions. You will get aubergine-colored, wine-soaked onions which make a perfect side dish to Burgundy-style dishes.
Jan 9th, 2008, 12:07 PM
#59
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traveller, the only problem with your recipe is that it would require 6 to 8 bottles of wine, not 3 to 4. If I'm going to be sitting there staring at the pan and waiting, every time I pour some wine in, I'd have to drink an equal amount.
