Paragkash

Dear Fodorites,
I have been trying to plan my trip and get the correct itinerary for my family; with your valuable help.
I am travelling with my wife and 2 daughters (13 and 15 years) in April-May 2010.
04th - 7th May- Bavaria ( 4 days) I will be flying into Munich reaching by 10 am.
8th May - 17th may- Switzerland- 9 days ( With 8 days Swiss rail Pass)

We want to visit Bavarian alps, and dont want to stay in Munich, as we have already seen it.
Our places of interest would be-
1. Fussen- castles
2. Berchtesgaden- Eagle's Nest,
3. and May be Zugspitz ( This is optional as we will be seeing Zermatt and Mont Blanc later)
4. Garmisch- Should I go there in the given limited time? May be fellow fodorite Swandav can help, as he is staying there.

We will prefer to travel by public transport.
Can someone suggest..
1. Where should I have my base? Fussen? Munich?
2. Do I stay at 1 or 2 places?
3. We want to purchase Bayern Ticket ( Group of 5 persons travel @ 28 Euros/ day)- Is it true.
a. Does it give unlimited to and fro travel throughout the day between 9 am to 3 am at night.
b. Is there a 3 or 4 days Bayern pass available which gives unlimited travel within bavaria ? German Rail pass turns out expensive.
3. I will prefer to get into Switzerland thro Lindau ( till where my Bayern pass will be valid) and within Switzerland my Swiss pas will take over.
OR Take a train from Munich- till the Border Town and then on to Zurich by Swiss Rail.

4. Is there a direct connection from Berchtesgaden to Fussen or is it via Munich?

Please help...

J62

You can check train schedules on www.bahn.de. I've spent a lot of time in Southern Bavaria and it's a place I think is best explored with a car.

Paragkash

Thanks,

Are these roads easy to negotiate?
Are they very risky with steep climbs and hair-pin bends?

swandav2000

Hi Paragkash,

You probably know my anti-car bias -- I live here and can vouch that it's very easy to explore without one. Though it's not the quick way to travel.

You can easily get to the Alps, the Zugspitze, and the castles from Garmisch; either bus or train or cable car will take care of you for that. The biggest problem is getting to Berchtesgaden, which is a long ride away (about four hours). Perhaps you could spend your first one or two nights in Salzburg or Berchtesgaden itself before coming over to this area.

BTW, I would recommend that you add Mittenwald (for the mountain views and walks) and Oberammergau (for the village itself) to your travel plans.

Have fun!

s

J62

Yes, roads are easy to negotiate. While agree that all the points you can access by public transportation as swandav says, the biggest difference to me is time & flexibility - two things that are very important to me when I'm on vacation.

When I'm on vacation my time is limited, so I like the ability to get from point a to point b on my own schedule. For getting between cities served by very regular train service I always prefer train.

The other thing is flexibility. Part of the beauty and joy of exploring the area is the ability to simply pull over and stop on a whim. Be it to pick fresh strawberries (in June, not April/May), have fun with the kids at the summer toboggan run on one of the many the ski slopes you'll pass (Sommerrodelbahn), stop in the wood carver's shop you just passed near Oberamergau, or make a detour to the Weiskirche you've read about. All of which can be done in a single day going to or from Fuessen, if you have a car. Much harder to do if you rely on bus/train.

swandav2000

Agreed -- car is faster. And I prefer to go slower!!!! I'm one who spends a whole day in a town or village, so I can detour and poke around within the town and nearby as much as I like.

I also prefer to see the roads on foot or by bike. That is how slow I go.

I also like thinking that I haven't left behind any fumes to disturb the beautiful Alps! So if it takes me two weeks to see what others see in a few days -- it's still my preferred way to go.

s

Paragkash

You are lucky Swandav, that you stay in the centre of worlds' most beautiful places. You can really do what you love. I try to visit one country at one time, every year; but can't really move at your pace. I would actually love to do that.
I think, as per your description, I will have to leave Berchtesgaden for the next trip.
Is it possible that I make Fussen as my base; see Linderhof castle, Obermagau, Zugspitz in 2/3 days ( either by Car or Bus-Train) and move on to Lindau on Day 4- early morning. Stay the night and proceed to Switzerland?

Please suggest...

Cowboy1968

I never understand why people turn this public transport vs car into a matter of anal either/or.

If you wanted to see both, Berchtesgaden and Garmisch/Füssen, I would start by taking the train(s) from Munich Aiport to Berchtesgaden. Unfortunately, that will involve two connections but on day 1 with a jet lag and a possibly busy motorway A8 towards Salzburg/Berchtesgaden it will still be a rather stressless solution.

After Berchtesgaden, pick up rental car for x days, go to Garmisch and/or Füssen (via the German Alpine Road), and pick one place there as your base (Garmisch or even a smaller village in its vicinity would be my favorite). On your last day, drive to Lindau, drop off your car, and get on the train to Zurich.

The trip up and down Zugspitze is a massively overpriced rip-off, IMO.
To really visit the Alps, you should do at least a bit of hiking. There are thousands of well-marked hiking trails in the area, and the car will be suitable to take you to trailheads that are not that easily accessible and thus get less tourists going there.
Another option could be to save Berchtesgaden/Salzburg for some future visits, and take the train from MUC to Garmisch, and focus on that region.

swandav2000

Hi again,

Yes, I am very happy to be living here, but I only moved here in 2008. (Sorry if this sounds argumentative, but my living here has more to do with God's grace, sweat, blood, tears, and hard work -- not luck!) And I don't live in Switzerland, where I've been visiting since 1995. I have learned just to limit my appetites; I now spend about a week in a new place because I do travel so slowly.

Cowboy1968, I'm curious about which trail heads are difficult to get to without a car?

Anyway, I'm sure you'll have a glorious time here and in Switzerland!

s

Paragkash

I think I am trying to pack too much in 4 days.
I have never driven a left hand drive car.
I have driven a right hand drive car form london to Scotland, which I am used to.
Is it advisable to drive left hand drive for the first time...

I am thinking of renting a car at Munich airport and head straight to Fuessen for 3 days/ 2 nights.
( Is Ruette a better and cheaper place for overnight stay? OR any other suggestion?)

Then try to see Garmisch, Obermagau, Linderhof etc. & may be Zugspitz along with the 2 main castles at Fussen.

Come back to Munich. Drop the Car.

4th Day- take a train to Lindau- 1 night.
Next day take a boat to Romanshorn.. ( Is that the place where it connects to Switzerland)

Is the Bayern Ticket valid on these boats?

Please comment on the itinerary and suggest what to do in three days in Bavarian Alps..

Cowboy1968

Trails may officially often start at railway stations or in villages where you can go by bus. And there are many which are easily accesible by public transport which I never doubted. By the way, I go hiking all year round, and take the car only in the minority of trips.
But I also don't get "religious" about not using my car.

And you will need a while until you left the towns or villages behind you, and are really "in" the mountains. Sometimes I don't mind that extra "mile" or 1-2 kilometers from the railway stations, sometimes I just want to drive to the edge of the forests and start hiking right away.

Areas that are not easily accesible by trains (and I definetely don't plan my tours around a '3 buses a day' RVO schedule) are Walchensee, Jachenau, Hinter- and Vorderriß, Eng, Karwendel in general unless you like to take the cable car from Mittenwald, Sylvensteinsee, Achensee and Rofan, Mangfall/Kreuth, Spitzingsee, Ammergebirge (except for Laber from Oberammergau), Leutaschtal, and so on...

Driving in the Alps is fun when you can avoid busy holiday weekends and slow-moving flatlanders.

J62

I have no intent to debate car vs public transportation but rather just relay my own experiences. If you don't want to drive right away it is quite possible to get from Munich airport TO either Fuessen or Garmish with only single change of trains in Munich Hbf. There are direct trains to Garmisch hourly all day long (90min ride), and to Fuessen every 2 hrs (~2hr ride). It's getting around Bavaria where a car comes in handy.

You could train to Fuessen, spend a day or so there, then when you're ready to visit Garmisch, Linderhof, etc you could rent a car in Fuessen for just a few days.

Personally I'm not a big fan of spending the time & money to get to the top of mountains like the Zugspitze. Keep in mind that in early May it'll still be winter weather at the top. The daytime highs might warm up to 5 or even 10C, but it also might not get above freezing and be cloudy and windy.

Where I live now I get plenty of snow at home so for me a better thing to do is take a cable car to the top of one of the lower peaks right outside Garmish then spend the day walking down the mountain on the well marked trails.

The local tourist bureau will have lots of info about hiking trails.

I'm also a fan of staying in one location as a base and doing day trips. This saves a lot of time and hassle packing up, checking out, moving, and doing the same thing on the other end.

For a family of 4 you could also consider staying in an apartment. This is very, very common in Germany where they are called Ferienwohnung. There are many, many places in the areas you're considering since it's a popular winter playground. We (similar family of 4 w/ teenagers) do this whenever we travel in the US and Europe. We have no need for most of the services a hotel provides, so an apartment works great for us.

kkukura

A few years ago I took my two teenagers and one of their friends to Germany and Austria for a graduation present to the two older girls. We did part of the trip by rail but I did rent a car for three days in Bavaria. I had never done it before and thought I could handle the country driving instead of being in congested areas. One drawback for me is that I live in Houston, TX where the roads are long and flat. So I guess I was one of the flatlanders that Cowboy1968 was talking about. I did thoroughly enjoy the driving and, although I was probably one of the slower drivers, the traffic was not bad and I don't think I had a back-up behind me! We used Reutte as a home base and loved relaxing in the small town in between all the sightseeing. My kids thoroughly loved going up the Zugspitze, probably because we seldom see any snow or hills/mountains. They loved having snowball fights there. On the way back through Austria to Reutte we stopped and spent hours riding the luge. The kids also went swimming in one of the lakes (we were there in July). We stayed at Hotel Das Beck, www.welcome.to/hotel-das-beck, in Reutte and had a two room apartment for the four of us.

swandav2000

Thanks for that list, Cowboy! I love walking around the Karwendels too, my favorites so far. Yes, it can be aggravating to be walking for 30-45 minutes just to get to the emply countryside. But so far it's only a small bother for me, not a major hassle (and moooore Wurst!).

I do really dislike cars; guess I am religious about it. I think they're like cigarettes in so many ways. I am so very happy to have left them behind in my past life, lol!

s

Paragkash

Dear Friends..
I am not too sure about renting a car.. or... by public transport.
I have booked my hotels within 500 meters from the railway stations. So I still have my options open..
Travelling with luggage is a bit of a problem..

With the help of you all, I have sort of finalised my itinerary in Bavaria..

Munich airport to Berchtesgaden-- 1 night
( If driving down.. See Chiemsee Palace, Ramsau and Koningsee)

Berchtesgaden- fussen- ( 2 nights)
( If driving.. See Mittenwald, Lindau, Oberammergau, Garmisch [ meet Swandav.. hahaha.. he will definitely be against renting a car.. now more so]

See the two castles..

Fussen to Lindau..
( Don't know what to see on the way by car)

Lindau to Zurich by train and on to Geneva.
---
I would actually love to make one place as a base for 3 days and make day trips by bus from there ; before moving on to Lindau.

Where will I find German bus timetable?
Please help with the itinerary..

swandav2000

Hi Paragkash,

I'll be thrilled to meet you and your family! I love to meet Fodorites! But -- I'm a she!

You can find bus schedules at the same spot as the train scheudles -- the German rail site

www.bahn.de

When you input a pair of destinations, all of the possible connections come up, whether train, train to train, train to bus, or bus, etc.

You can pm me at tripadvisor to set up a GTG when you come!

s

Paragkash

Hi Swandav, you have helped us, and many more like us.
I would love to meet you if possible and not a hassle for you.
That is if you don't mind meeting people travelling in a car in your serene area.... hahaha
I may be carrying a laptop and will try to get in touch enroute to Fussen.
Let's hope things work out as they are planned.
Thanks again.