Bavaria OR Switzerland late November
Nov 8th, 2017, 09:01 AM
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Bavaria OR Switzerland late November
Hi All-
My husband and I are taking a last minute trip flying into Vienna on the 25th of November and out of Paris on the Dec 6th. Yes, it's the shoulder season and not the best time to go to central europe (we really want to see the christmas markets in Vienna and eat to our heart's content in Paris).
We initially toyed with the idea of going to Switzerland in the middle leg of our journey, but now have moved on to the Bavaria area due to all the weather issues I keep hearing about around that time in Switzerland. Our ideal middle leg: a bit more local, slightly more relaxed than the big cities, and some mountain views.
Us: We aren't super outdoorsy (which shouldn't be an issue as there really isn't so much skiing/sledding at this time i believe?), we like to eat + drink + walk. Is there an argument for either place? (I haven't been to either and would love to see what those more traveled and knowledgeable of the area in late November have to say). If we're missing a different area that isn't listed we are open! Just dont want anything too far out of the way.
thank you! xxNic
My husband and I are taking a last minute trip flying into Vienna on the 25th of November and out of Paris on the Dec 6th. Yes, it's the shoulder season and not the best time to go to central europe (we really want to see the christmas markets in Vienna and eat to our heart's content in Paris).
We initially toyed with the idea of going to Switzerland in the middle leg of our journey, but now have moved on to the Bavaria area due to all the weather issues I keep hearing about around that time in Switzerland. Our ideal middle leg: a bit more local, slightly more relaxed than the big cities, and some mountain views.
Us: We aren't super outdoorsy (which shouldn't be an issue as there really isn't so much skiing/sledding at this time i believe?), we like to eat + drink + walk. Is there an argument for either place? (I haven't been to either and would love to see what those more traveled and knowledgeable of the area in late November have to say). If we're missing a different area that isn't listed we are open! Just dont want anything too far out of the way.
thank you! xxNic
Nov 8th, 2017, 10:02 AM
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Going by train or car? Garmisch-Partenkirchen may be what you are looking for - smallish town but not tiny - ascend Zugspitze by mountain train- daytrip to Munich by rail or Innsbruck. Anyway for ideas on where to go by rail check www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.seat61.com.
A car would be nice in Garmisch area to bop over to Mad Ludwig's castles (also easy by train and bus from Garmisch via Reutte, Austria) and neat towns like Oberammergau, Mittenwald (great walks), etc.
A car would be nice in Garmisch area to bop over to Mad Ludwig's castles (also easy by train and bus from Garmisch via Reutte, Austria) and neat towns like Oberammergau, Mittenwald (great walks), etc.
Nov 8th, 2017, 10:55 AM
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Not sure of how much of a factor this is, but Switzerland is outrageously more expensive than Germany, at least when it comes to food and drinks. Borderline ridiculous difference. Bavaria offers a much better road trip prospect with beautiful scenery, interesting stops which are much closer together, and to me, much more accessible. In addition, the variety of lodging and sightseeing is far more interesting in Bavaria Region. Of course Switzerland is beautiful...but boring after a while. Vienna to Munich to Bavaria to Strasbourg, to Nancy to Reims to Paris. The roads in that region are great; nothing is too much "out of the way". Have fun!
Nov 8th, 2017, 01:26 PM
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Don't dismiss Switzerland because of weather - very similar to Bavaria I would think and high Alps are always so majestic - even if just taking trains and cable cars into them - not best season for hiking but visually always stunning.
Lucerne to me is one of Europe's nicest comeliest cities - on a lovely lake - take Golden Pass scenic trains from it to Interlaken - great base for Jungfrau area of stunning Alps - then take Golden Pass scenic train from Interlaken to Montreux (on lovely Lake Geneva and better weather usually than either Bavaria or Switzerland at that time I'd think) - Montreux is a lakeside gem.
Then trains to Paris via Lausanne or Geneva are just about 4 hours.
Trains best in Switzerland if going to Alpine areas especially - check www.swisstravelsystem.com for lots on scenic trains like Golden Pass.
But, Switzerland is rather expensive compared to other countries but also more beautiful.
Lucerne to me is one of Europe's nicest comeliest cities - on a lovely lake - take Golden Pass scenic trains from it to Interlaken - great base for Jungfrau area of stunning Alps - then take Golden Pass scenic train from Interlaken to Montreux (on lovely Lake Geneva and better weather usually than either Bavaria or Switzerland at that time I'd think) - Montreux is a lakeside gem.
Then trains to Paris via Lausanne or Geneva are just about 4 hours.
Trains best in Switzerland if going to Alpine areas especially - check www.swisstravelsystem.com for lots on scenic trains like Golden Pass.
But, Switzerland is rather expensive compared to other countries but also more beautiful.
Nov 8th, 2017, 05:01 PM
#7
I also don't think Switzerland is "more" beautiful. There is beautiful scenery in both.
It doesn't sound like you have many days for this part, in which case Switzerland feels like a slight detour.
You could note the stops the trains make between Vienna and Paris (via Munich) and see if a couple of them interest you. A few of them: Linz, Salzburg, Munich, Augsburg, Ulm, Karlsruhe, and my personal fave Strasbourg...
It doesn't sound like you have many days for this part, in which case Switzerland feels like a slight detour.
You could note the stops the trains make between Vienna and Paris (via Munich) and see if a couple of them interest you. A few of them: Linz, Salzburg, Munich, Augsburg, Ulm, Karlsruhe, and my personal fave Strasbourg...
Nov 8th, 2017, 09:25 PM
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Hi nicetrywilliams,
I live in Garmisch, and I agree with Pal above that Garmisch would give you everything you listed. It's a small/ish town of about 26,000 people, and it has a variety of restaurants, from local/regional to upscale regional to upscale international. Of course you can can get wine here, but (also of course), you have much more variety for beers of every hue and type. And there are many, many hiking or walking trails, either along the valley floors or ridges of the mountains or even ascending and descending, as you like. You can hike up and then take cable cars down, or the reverse. And Germany's highest mountain, the Zugspitze, is 45 minutes by train from Garmisch.
We normally don't get snow in town until far later in the season, so all the trails should be fine, except the ascents to the mountains. If you want to see snow, you can go up to the Alpspitze or Kreuzeck, or also up the Zugspitze. Skiing doesn't usually start until right around Christmas, and that usually only at the Zugspitze (because of Global Climate Change).
I don't have a car, and you certainly don't need one. You can walk from one end of town to the other in under an hour! And there are town busses that will take you close to the trailheads, and of course taxis to transport you & luggage to/from the train station. And of course it's very easy to get around the region (Oberammergau, Mittenwald, Linderhof, Füssen/Neuschwanstein) by train & bus. You can check the train schedules at the German rail site at
www.bahn.com
Because of the damage we're already seeing here from GCC, I do strongly suggest that you don't use a car for your visit if you come here. I think being car-free would add an extra European flavor to your European vacation, and you'll have the chance to get (almost literally) immersed in the culture instead of being stuck inside your private bubble.
Have fun as you plan!
s
I live in Garmisch, and I agree with Pal above that Garmisch would give you everything you listed. It's a small/ish town of about 26,000 people, and it has a variety of restaurants, from local/regional to upscale regional to upscale international. Of course you can can get wine here, but (also of course), you have much more variety for beers of every hue and type. And there are many, many hiking or walking trails, either along the valley floors or ridges of the mountains or even ascending and descending, as you like. You can hike up and then take cable cars down, or the reverse. And Germany's highest mountain, the Zugspitze, is 45 minutes by train from Garmisch.
We normally don't get snow in town until far later in the season, so all the trails should be fine, except the ascents to the mountains. If you want to see snow, you can go up to the Alpspitze or Kreuzeck, or also up the Zugspitze. Skiing doesn't usually start until right around Christmas, and that usually only at the Zugspitze (because of Global Climate Change).
I don't have a car, and you certainly don't need one. You can walk from one end of town to the other in under an hour! And there are town busses that will take you close to the trailheads, and of course taxis to transport you & luggage to/from the train station. And of course it's very easy to get around the region (Oberammergau, Mittenwald, Linderhof, Füssen/Neuschwanstein) by train & bus. You can check the train schedules at the German rail site at
www.bahn.com
Because of the damage we're already seeing here from GCC, I do strongly suggest that you don't use a car for your visit if you come here. I think being car-free would add an extra European flavor to your European vacation, and you'll have the chance to get (almost literally) immersed in the culture instead of being stuck inside your private bubble.
Have fun as you plan!
s
Nov 9th, 2017, 12:42 AM
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November is rather rainy in all 4 countries (A, D, CH, F). There is often a big fog layer (sea of fog) over the midlands with upper limits between 1000 and 2000 metres. There is usually no fog in the alpine valleys. So, if the weather above the fog is fine (and only then), it's word to travel through the Alps.
But if you plan decent visits of Vienna and Paris, you will not have more than 3 days left. These 3 days could be split between Munich and Strasbourg or between Innsbruck and Berne (both fine starting places for trips into the Alps if the weather gets fine).
But if you plan decent visits of Vienna and Paris, you will not have more than 3 days left. These 3 days could be split between Munich and Strasbourg or between Innsbruck and Berne (both fine starting places for trips into the Alps if the weather gets fine).
Nov 9th, 2017, 02:51 AM
#10
November's weather in Central Europe can be a cruel mistress, I agree. I also agree that you aren't really giving yourself enough time to enjoy Vienna and Paris. At that time of year darkness arrives early; and weary toes can easily become cold and weary toes that a cafe pause won't cure.
That said, I would also vote in favor of Bavaria, or even Salzburg or Innsbruck. We live in Vienna and have used the long American Thanksgiving school break weekends (late November) to visit Innsbruck and the Wolfgangseer Advent. For the former the weather could not have been lovelier; for the latter, we were treated to gently falling snow on our last day, while visiting the market at Schloss Hellbrunn. The markets in both destinations continue to rate among our favorites. We have also taken a long pre-Christmas weekend to base in Munich, wherein we made a day trip to Garmisch because the children wanted to take the cable car to Zugspitze. So, the possibilities are numerous!
Happy Planning!
That said, I would also vote in favor of Bavaria, or even Salzburg or Innsbruck. We live in Vienna and have used the long American Thanksgiving school break weekends (late November) to visit Innsbruck and the Wolfgangseer Advent. For the former the weather could not have been lovelier; for the latter, we were treated to gently falling snow on our last day, while visiting the market at Schloss Hellbrunn. The markets in both destinations continue to rate among our favorites. We have also taken a long pre-Christmas weekend to base in Munich, wherein we made a day trip to Garmisch because the children wanted to take the cable car to Zugspitze. So, the possibilities are numerous!
Happy Planning!
Nov 9th, 2017, 02:29 PM
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I also don't think Switzerland is "more" beautiful. There is beautiful scenery in both.>
Yes as a whole entity both are beautiful to me at least (but so are cornfields in Iowa!) Very subjective of course.
But Alpine Switzerland like near Interlaken or Zermatt is in many ways to folks never having experienced high mountains to be rather uniquely scenic - more awesome as mountains than the mere hills around Bavaria.
Yes as a whole entity both are beautiful to me at least (but so are cornfields in Iowa!) Very subjective of course.
But Alpine Switzerland like near Interlaken or Zermatt is in many ways to folks never having experienced high mountains to be rather uniquely scenic - more awesome as mountains than the mere hills around Bavaria.
