Today, a friend sent me an inspirational email, which included the following advice on ways to lower your stress level:

28. Be kind to unkind people (they probably need it the most).
29. Sit on your ego.
30 Talk less; listen more.
31. Slow down.
32. Remind yourself that you are not the general manager of the universe.

Now, take a deep breath, girls......

<i><font color=#555555>"Amazed that you went to the trouble to look up banks in Venice."</font></i>

Are you kidding? I find ATM fraud extremely egregious. Why on earth would you find that amazing? Are we not here to help other travelers? I feel your pain, dear, but if other travelers to Venice are to benefit from your experience, they need to be armed with more information.

The most important piece of information that you could offer in this thread is the location of the ATM in Venice. Am I the only one who sees this?

Professional thieves don't pick just any old ATM. They pick ATMs where they are less likely to get caught. And it seems to me, Calle Larga San Marco is a perfect street for an ATM scam.

If your intention was to help other travelers, then revealing the precise location of the ATM is the best way to warn others to stay clear of that ATM. It also is a warning to the building/business that houses the ATM. The address may not be an actual bank. It's listed as a "Financial Institution."

I think someone let a rabid pitbull loose!

Oh come now, gh21. Suze and holly aren't that bad.

The thieves have probably moved that scanner to a different ATM by now. It would be useless to them to leave it at the original bank/ATM, once the bank knows of the problem. They probably move it about every 2-3 days, so they get enough money from one and then move on to the next.

Our bank does have a ATM card that you can put money into from a checking account, but is not connected to it. We just put enough on the card to see us through the trip.

joto, you're absolutely right about the scammers moving on. To focus on this particular bank would be like reporting that one was pickpocketed on the #23 bus in Transylvania. The pickpockets have most likely moved on to the #30.

May I ask what bank you use? That card sounds like a great alternative.

It's Wells Fargo. A similar type of card should be available at most banks. If it's not, you could open another checking account, but only have enough money in it to stop it closing, put in enough money for a trip, and if it does get scammed, it wouldn't be your main checking account that got hit.

Mel, how convenient that you'd like to move on. So be it.

Clearly, you and joto know little about thieves and scam artists.

It's a well known fact, if your home has been burglarized, your six times more likely to be revisited by the same burglar. The figure is much greater if the pickings are good and plentiful. One can only imagine the pickings in Venice, with all those millions of international travelers.

So much for "moving on." Nice work, Mel.

NYC: I never said I was "moving on," but that's a great idea. you have managed to muddle a thread that was meant to be helpful (and I have been assured by many has been) with your inane need to be the center of attention.

You are really not a nice person. You picked on a thread about something lousy that happened to me on vacation and used it to make yourself sound superior (though, in actuality, you only came across as weirdly obsessive). I'm happy that you have--in your words-- a biographer, fame and good fortune. Go forth and do something good with all that.

You've become tiresome. Now scoot.

<i><font color=#555555>"your inane need to be the center of attention...now scoot"</font></i>

That's funny. I don't recall being the OP who titled a thread, "Bank Account Cleaned Out While in Italy," here on Fodor's. Looks like someone else has a talent and maybe a need for attracting attention.

Then you begin by saying, "there is nothing I'm aware of that we could have done to prevent this from happening." Well, I disagree. There is plenty you could have done, and I hope other readers will learn after they read this thread.

You can tell me to "scoot" all you want. I'm sure such talk makes you feel more manly. But as far as I'm concerned, you're not telling the whole truth, probably because you don't want to take responsibility for what you didn't do.

Time to move on.

I don't usually get into fights, but, MelJ, I like you better than NYCFS.

<i>To focus on this particular bank would be like reporting that one was pickpocketed on the #23 bus in Transylvania. The pickpockets have most likely moved on to the #30.</i>

Not quite. Some Paris métro lines are notorious for pickpocketing because they are more heavily used by tourists.

MelJ--
Thank you for sharing your experience so clearly. Great job!

Greg, Michael, joto, xyz--Thanks for explaining how this scanner works and for providing steps all tourists might use to prevent it.

As to some of the points raised...

1. My regular bank's personnel have no clue as to how ATMs operate overseas. I've stopped notifying them because 1) they either tell me that it doesn't matter OR b) they tell me that my plain old ATM card (not a debit card) won't work in Europe(!), even though I'd been using it just fine since 1998. I also am amazed that I have this strict $350 withdrawal limit at home, and when I've been overseas, I've found I can withdraw $1,000 on this puppy.

Therefore, thanks to some tips on this forum, I now primarily use a...

2. Schwab debit card for which I can reduce purchases to a penny. I fund this account before we leave. Schwab really wants you to let them know your plans about a week before you leave, so I think the email alert idea will sit very well with them.

3. How true that we can't let thieves steal our lives along with our possessions. Otherwise, we'd all just stay home.

MelJ,

Ignore NYCfoodsnob, he's worthless. I can't be bothered reading anything he posts.

Mel, thank you for your post. You have given me a lot to think about for my future travels. I am sorry you had such a terrible experience but am glad you were able to still enjoy a wonderful trip.

I just came back from Italy. My husband and I travel a lot. Each time, I always asked myself...atm or cash and always end up bringing cash and never use atm. I know, I know...a lot would say I am crazy for bringing so much cash. But its precisely for incidents like this that I always opted for just bringing cash because the cash money I would loose, IF I loose them, will be much more less than having someone cleaning out my account. To think of the stress and headache to go through if something like this happens...yikes. I know I can have a separate travel account tied with an atm..etc etc...but its not something I want to maintain.

i think its a cultural thing also. I was telling my husband how when my family used to travel, my parents would have thousands of dollars in cash for shopping etc etc...I still see it today whenever I do my shopping in high end shops. Of course here, I use my credit card. But I see asians, middle easterns still paying in cash for purhcases worth in thousands. why, I just saw this asian lady paid in cash for something worth over 5k euros.

So far, in my years of traveling with my parents and now, I have never lost any cash...knock on wood! Of course, with bringing thousands in cash, comes with responsibility and common sense and so far, they have served me well.

Thank you Mel for highlighting what happened am really sorry this rotten thing happened to you on your holiday. I am always cautious but your post has definitely served as a reminder to me and to all to be extra cautious.

PS Steph, I am like you I use cash or my credit card. I never use my bank card abroad ( or online) for that matter.

Just out of curiousity:
Is it not common to have a insurance against debit card fraud as part of your regular liability insurance?
My policy does not cover a fortune but at least up to € 5,000 for my checking account for that time until I notice the fraud and notify my bank.

And it is very common that you can withdraw the maximum of € 500 or 1,000 from an ATM here even though your debit card may have a $300 minimum back home in the US.
ATMs usually don't fully hook-up with your home bank's network but only to intermediary networks which do only a rudimentary background check, i.e. Card stolen/ not stolen, cancelled/ not cancelled, out of country usage blocked/ not blocked.

cowboy1968....US law offers some very good protections for credit card problems of fraud which basically limits one's liability to $50 and 999% of the banks don't even bother with the $50. Although not in the law, to try to wean people off credit cards and to use their deb it cards, most banks provide the same protection for fraud namely they cover the losses. The OP did get his money back with a bit of a hassle but ultimately lost nothing except perhaps a few grey hairs from the stress. The laws are on the books, at least in the United States, and rarely is anything lost by consumers to frud. As a matter of fact, one of the arguments from some in the US against chip and pin cards is, as somebody here noted, the liability might well switch to cardholder. I have read some cases in the UK where terminals have been booby trapped, and chip and pin cards counterfeited and at first the banks refused to cover the losses claiming it was negligence on the part of the cardholder. But that's for another story.

StephCA...when you say you bring cash, is it US cash or euro? If it's US cash then you have the hassle of gong to the bank to exchange it...if it's euro you go to your bank and exchange it. Leaving aside the losses incurred by the large service charges and fees for currency exchange, that is still a bit of a hassle, isn't it? Shold the cash be lost or stolen or whatever, it is lost and gone forever. As I just said, as traumatic as this experience was, the OP and his friend eventually got all their money back. And quite franklyu,, millions and millions of atm transactins are made daily. How often does this happen? You're welcome to your opinion and no I don't think you're crazy but to me, it's far less of a hassle to use credit cards wherever they are taken for as little as they are taken for (undersanding full well that outside the UK, credit cards are not as popular and yo might run into problem with such asinine policies as minimum purchases required or the growing problem of having an antiquated American credit card) and supplement it with some small cash withdrawals for those times you can't use a credit card.

As far as the asians and such for large purchases, might it not have something to do with customs regulations in their home country and not creating a paper trail for the authorities to impose heavy fines for failuyre to report. Also some foreign credit cards are restricted for use outside their country of origin. (I don't know if this is still true but years ago, for example, many if not most Mexican credit cards could not be used outside Mexico and it said so in the thick booklet merchants got weekly which they used to have to check before credit card purchases, remember those days).

And what do you do at home. Do you use direct deposit of your paychecks? Are you restricted, then if you don't to the times banks are open? If you use directdeposit, how do you get whatever cash you might need? Again do you go to the bank or do you use an ATM. This sort of thing is just as unlikely to happen down the street from you at a corner ATM. And as to maintaining a special travelling ccount, what's to maintain? I keep $1.01 in the account at all times (no minimum balance required)...two days before I leave I use the bill paying part of my main checking account to transfer moneyu into the account (perhaps $100)...I use the free debit card of tht bank to withdraw perhaps €50 or whatever (I just can't conceive of spending more than that in cash. I find it hard to believe that any store with prices hjigher than that doesn't take credit cards). If necessary, I can go online and transfer more money in (it is a good idea to check your bank balances daily if possible to make sure everything is okay...that was how I discovered an authorizatin had been made on mny credit card for €2,000 when the number was compromised about 10 years ago and had not been notified by the bank and yes I know hackers can get into computers but it's the cost of dong business and it's rare) and when I get home, I transfer whtever is left in the travel account back to my main account maintaining the balance of $1.01 (oh the interest I am losing)...hardly much of a bother.

But then again, you could always do what I did the first time I visited Europe many moons ago. Go out and get travelers cheques. Remember them?

Like I said, you're quite welcomer to do things the way you want but I think if you sit down and work it out, there's far less hassle using ATM's and credit cards than there is using cash except when absolutely necessary.

I'm xyz123 and I approved this message.