kwren

OK - I get it. Marching band and regular band. We have that too, but marching band isn't graded as it is outside of school time, and band is graded as it is a class during the day, as you were saying. Band has concerts through the year, which the kids can't miss, but they can miss class if necessary. They have to make up the sectionals that they miss. Our musical is optional, but the best musicians often sing too and most also try out for the musical in some capacity. My kids were always in the pit which had fewer practices than those up on stage. Yup - can't miss those practices either.

In any case, these are very good groups of kids!

It does sound way too harsh that your kids can't miss any time in the summer. Do you have any sort of music booster club where the parents can discuss it? I don't think we'd put up with that here!

Sassafrass

When I was teaching, July and August were the only times I could even think of going to Europe, which I did several times - even Rome in August and Spain in July. Sure it was hot, but no worse than a lot of the US at the same time, and lots of fun. So, go in the summer and have a good time, less hassle for the kids, teachers and you.

mama_mia

Doesn't your school district have a policy for trips like these? Our school district requires parents to submit an Educational Form at least two weeks in advance, outlining the trip (10 day limit), which then needs to be approved by the principal. Teachers can then request written reports or homework be done during the absence.

I would think having a policy in place would give you some back up for your request. I do agree, though, that in high school, it becomes trickier to miss any days.

As others have noted, you can still create an enjoyable vacation in August with planning. And don't discount the pleasures of hitting some of the lesser known sites if you think the major tourist sites will be too crowded.

kwren

I've done both the major and minor sites in August. Plan what you want to do and go for it! You won't be sorry and you've gotten some good tips above as to how to avoid some of the crowds. I'm sorry it's so stressful to find a time!

MonicaRichards

I think it's a lot to ask a teacher to design a specific program to keep up kids who are missing school for vacation. We suck it up and take our kids during the summer even though it's crowded/hot/expensive/whatever.

StCirq

I think it's arrogant and self-serving too. I took my kids to Europe every single summer (and sometimes Spring Break) from the time they were born until they were in college, and it never once occurred to me to ask for some special dispensation because it just suited ME. Sorry, but that sort of attitude just grates on me.

Why should any parent expect special treatment to bend the rules or get special dispensation for assignments? What if every or lots of parents did that? I don't care what kind of "work ethic" your kids have. Plenty of other kids have the same, and their parents aren't taking them out of school because it suits THEM. ME, ME, ME, ME...is what this shrieks. I totally applaud your kids' band teacher - do you know what's involved in training a band, and how important it is for each and every member to be there every practice unless someone is direly ill? I love the "I'll take it up with him..." line. Do...and I hope he sticks to his guns.

Sorry, but I am SO sick of parents who think they are above everything. You say you could go at early to mid-August, but that's just not really convenient for you...because it's HOT? Are you kidding me? Suck up the HOT and go then and avoid all this drama. It's not about YOU, it's about rules.

This isn't a "riddle" or a "juggling act." It's a power play, and one that will teach your kids unconscionable lessons in the years that come.

What on God's earth could be the problem with going in August? Those of us who don't mess with teachers have routinely done that and put up with the little bit of sweat it entailed. Too bad if you're HOT. As for "the girls would have learned far more in Europe than they would have in an entire month at their school," take them out of their schools and send them to European schools. Sheesh! American self-serving gall at its best.

msteacher

"We can't go in early July because the Spanish Riding School is closed."

Seriously?

AtlTravelr

Kandace-sorry, I don't understand. In your first piost you say you CAN go in early August. Later you say this is impossible due to band. If the question is " go in August or not"? Then I say go. We also dealt with a school that penalized the students for taking time off during the school year. We went in late august and no, it was not horrible. It was hotter than the rest of the year but not unbearable in any way. And if you are looking for life experiences, our kids met kids from a London family while on vacation in August and we have remained friends for 10+ years, meeting them in various countries over the years. Take a vacation when the Europeans do. It's not so bad.

CatchK

As a middle school teacher, I can tell you that it is virtually impossible to keep track of most of the things that I am normally responsible for during a school day. I work 3 additional jobs and am in grad school (which is a state requirement if i am to continue teaching!) I am not saying this to complain about my career - I chose it for a reason and am honestly very passionate about what I do. It is important to me that I do my job well.

Because of this things, several things bother me about your original posts, although it seems like your thinking has evolved a bit throughout this thread.

1. I truly, honestly, don't have time to do most of the things that you said you had some teachers do, no matter how much I love your kids. They are great teachers for that and you should be grateful for them!

2. Teaching in a small school that is considered low-income (which is a huge decrease in median income in the past 10 years), I have to be aware of the fact that MOST of my kids and their families could never afford trips to Europe, or anywhere else for that matter. I cannot treat your child any different than the others simply because you can afford to take fancy trips. Just looking at it from a different point of view.

3. If this is SUCH an issue, can't they quit band?? Join a community band or get them in private lessons if playing an instrument is that important.

4. I just went to Italy (Venice, Brescia/Garda, Positano, Rome) in August. As a teacher I don't get to choose when I get my vacation time so this was my only option!

I found that pre-planning all major attractions and sights really made the difference. The absolute longest line that I waited in was about 10 minutes. I still had free time and flexibility, but I made sure that my must-sees were pre-planned. I found that the Italians thought it was extremely hot, but for me it was the same as at home.

Sorry for being long-winded but I really wanted to second some of those points!

AtlTravelr

CatchK-this is where I wish the board had a "like" button. For all that you said-like.

StCirq

CatchK - same here, too. My dad was a teacher and headmaster. No one appreciates what they do. Very sad. Unthinking.

BumbleB6

Well, I was going to suggest Christmas break - most US school districts get two weeks, I'm assuming yours does too - but that's out too because of band obligations?

I think the answer is - have your daughter choose between Band or travel. Sounds like Band is the problem.
Or, go alone with your husband and have someone stay with the kids.

I agree it's beneficial to take our children abroad, but I also think they need to learn they cannot have it all, or do everything. (It's a good lesson for us, as parents, too.) There will always be other obligations and choices to be made over another.
Again, in this case, it really sounds like you and your daughter need to decide which is more important in her life right now - staying in Band or traveling to Europe with you. And if she chooses Band, she needs to be at the required events, and Europe will still be there later in her life.

Btw, I went to Italy in August and it wasn't bad. In fact, it was wonderful. We were so awed by Florence and Tuscany, we didn't even think about the heat. It is, however, more expensive to fly then, so there's that.
I hope you can work something out.

As for my own daughter in high school - she's solved this for us, herself, by refusing to take time off from school. I actually would like her to but she won't! I really don't like traveling in summer - we live in an area where summers are actually very nice, with many things to do - but we've traveled to Europe twice in recent years because we wanted to take our daughter. However, I've decided we're only going abroad during her spring break from now on, as long as she's with us anyway. The weather is horrible here, while it's more pleasant in Europe and elsewhere, and the flights are cheaper. It'll be a shorter trip than in summer, but at least I can stay home in summer.

Kandace_York

Yikes. Calm down, everyone.

Spanish Riding School -- if you're not an equestrian, you don't understand how life-changing this is. I've waited at least 30 years to visit this. It will be one of the memories I will carry to my grave, and this is likely the only chance I will ever have to experience it ... sorry, but again, if you're not a horseperson you just won't get that. I can't even think of an equivalent. It encompasses 400 years of war, art, royalty, geography and history. It is not just a riding school and they are not just horses.

August -- the main reason I was so hesitant is because of THIS FORUM, wherein virtually everyone says August is the worst time to go to Europe, don't go, it's broiling hot, it's miserable, the lines are impossible, and on and on and on. The girls have *fewer* band commitments in August, but they do still have band commitments and they will be slammed for missing them (despite band being an "extra-curricular"). This is the biggest trap: we never have even three weeks, year-round, where they do not have a band commitment. We already get zero holidays, zero intact school breaks, and only an *occasional* Saturday that does not require band involvement. I know it sounds like whining, but if you haven't lived it, it's tough to get. One daughter will be leaving band, but the other has a genuine passion for music. Here, if you love music, you must be in marching band. There are no other options.

Forms -- yes, the school does have a policy and a form on family vacations, and they are allowed, and we did complete the forms in advance, and they were approved by administration. However, many of the teachers still rebelled.

Fancy trips -- I don't consider these "fancy trips." We travel on the cheap. We hike. We backpack. We stay in youth hostels. We study the girls' textbooks and build our itinerary around them as much as possible. I consider these trips (which are not "a regular thing" by any means) to be intensely educational and the best way for me to create humble, hard-working, empathetic, world-view people who will be able to -- I hope -- fix some of the huge mess that has been created on this planet by previous generations. Our school district cannot afford trips (not even local field trips), and the trips we take are a huge boon to what they're learning in school. Ask them about Stonehenge. Ask them about Shakespeare. Ask them about geography. Instead of locking them in a "box" and drilling endless dates, names and monotone history into them, they've BEEN to these places. They identify with them. It all *means* something to them and they are far more engaged learners as a result ... something that I and their father (who is a teacher, by the way!) believe is the ultimate goal of education.

Summary -- fine, I'll try August! It has the least number of conflicts, and it's the month I would have chosen initially, if not for the torrent of comments here about NOT going in August.

BumbleB6

And CatchK, my sister is a high school math teacher, and I third the "like". Many don't realize how much time per day is spent on planning, grading - outside of school hours. Not to mention the students and parents who regularly call her at her home. She welcomes it, and seems to love her job and her students, but I've seen firsthand how much time she puts into her job, outside of school hours. Without any extra pay or thanks.

colduphere

It's hotter here in this forum than it will be in Europe. Have a good time.

longhorn55

I'm clicking my "Like" button for a lot of these posts, especially CatchK, StCirq and Socaltraveler. You have expressed my opinion in a way much better than I could have.

UNCalum

I would like to add that you are doing your children no favor by teaching them that rules, in this case school attendance requirements, should not apply if a better opportunity comes along. As a college professor, I see the unfortunate consequences of this attitude too often. Students have a sense of entitlement to the professor's time to re-teach classes missed because of a beach trip or to submit a paper late because of a minor case of the sniffles. Time away is time away, and what is missed should not be allowed to be made up without a doctor's note. A committment to school is more important than any trip to Europe, and I say that as one who loves going there.

Educators have too many students and too much grading to make exceptions unless in extraordinary situations. You should support those who expect rules to be followed and who insist that all students be treated the same. To do otherwise is to create that most unattractive sense of entitlement in your children.

If band is interfering with summer family time, then your children should quit and vacation then. Sometimes, choices must be made .

thursdaysd

"Here, if you love music, you must be in marching band. There are no other options."

<i>Marching</i> band? For real??? NO music teachers? I'm sorry, but someone who is <i>serious</i> about music is surely looking for something other than marching around at half time at a ball game.

"I've waited at least 30 years to visit this. It will be one of the memories I will carry to my grave, and this is likely the only chance I will ever have to experience it"

If you've waited 30 years how come you can't wait until the kids graduate? Seems this is more about your gratification than anything to do with the kids.

KTtravel

Another one here that believes travel should be in the summer, particularly when the kids are high school age. Class discussions and progressive lessons become much more important. My husband is also a teacher and has a hard enough time creating lessons, make up tests, etc. for kids who are ill or have family crisis issues. He teaches summer school, as do many teachers to help pay the bills, so we also can only travel in August.

In our state, unless the kids are in private school, daily attendance rates fund the school budget. If kids are absent for vacations, their school loses money. I don't know if this is the same with your school district.

If your kids have made the commitment to band, then that is the choice they have made. If band interferes too much with travel and family life, then perhaps they would prefer not to be in band. If most of the band parents find the commitment too restricting, perhaps you can go to the band teacher and see if a compromise (two pre-scheduled weeks off or so) could be arranged.

I certainly think kids can learn a great deal by traveling in Europe, and other places, and those trips can create wonderful family memories. I hope you are able to find a good solution.

StCirq

<<if you're not an equestrian, you don't understand how life-changing this is.>>

No, I'm sure we wouldn't. I like horses, and I'm sure there are plenty of people here who own them and ride them and love them too, but "life-changing" for "an equestrian" kind of says it all, doesn't it? LIFE effing CHANGING? What planet do you live on? Are you Ann Romney? And what an admission that this trip is ALL about YOU! You never mentioned that your kids were "equestrians."
And let's face it, putting yourself in that category does have implications for why you think you're so much more special than the average parent. Go see the horses yourself if you must.. Let your kids stay home and do what they should be doing.