zac495

Coming to Portugal in the beginning of July. We have 15 days to play with. My 24 year old son won't stay the entire time because of time constraints plus he prefers nightlife and more young people things (though he loves history, culture and food just like his old parents

We have a very vague idea so far and was hoping for some of your brilliance:
Land in Lisbon and drive straight to Porto. Stay there 3 nights. We TEND to prefer to base in a hotel and do day trips but we're open to suggestions.
Drive back to Lisbon and stay 4 nights (again - open to ideas - I have read about Cascais, Sintra, Tomar, and Nazare and Sintra). I know we can't do and see everything.

Then head south (probably without him since we know it's quieter there). My husband wants to stay in Carvoeiro and see the caves. But we're open to another base idea. We hate big crowds at beaches. We stayed in Sitges in Spain 2 years ago and it was insane. That said, if there's an area that wouldn't be insane, but have more nightlife for my son, we'd consider it. Thinking 4 nights.

Then fly out of Lisbon to Madeira 4 nights (that's what calls to me).

Fly back to Lisbon and then back to USA.
What do we like?
We aren't guided tour people. We will use a guide book and meander and see towns. We love to just explore - eat - shop.
We like to hike (2 hours or so - not a whole day). We love gorgeous views especially cliffs and water.
We always stay in nice hotels with beautiful views.
We are wine lovers (not my son - he likes anything else
Son likes nightlife which he will explore after dinner with us.

Any advice will be wonderful. Thank you.

Ellen

janisj

Just a quick comment (other than 60 ain't that old )

>>Land in Lisbon and drive straight to Porto. <<. Bad BAD BAD idea. You are coming off an overnight flight, and even if you sleep like babies on plane, you will be jet lagged. I wouldn't drive at all on arrival day - but ESPECIALLY not 3+ hours.

zac495

Yeah 60 ain't that old haha! I totally agree.
So Lisbon 4 days first, then Porto 3 then the south then Madeira.

We have agreed on 2 points! What else can you tell us? THANKS!

thursdaysd

Unless you are stopping on the way there is NO reason to drive between Lisbon and Porto in either direction, the trains are fine. And you can stop in Coimbra without a car.

By the "south" do you mean the Algarve? Because if so I would expect it to be very crowded in July. If you want a quieter beach you should try the Atlantic coast. Your son should find ample nightlife in Porto and Lisbon. You can easily spend a week in and around Lisbon.

zac495

So by south my husband got excited about Carvoeiro. He agrees that if it's going to be crowded that's a bad idea. He liked the caves that are down there. Are we wrong about the area of the caves? I noticed Lagos was closer to the Atlantic than Carvoeiro but he saw caves that he thought would be interesting.

As for car - makes sense to take a train to Porto - however - question number 7,937 (kidding) - should we have a car around Lisbon and Porto? Perhaps rent one at each place? Because there are small towns we'd like to see and would prefer the convenience of a car unless you say it's highly inconvenient.

When we visited Croatia last year, we found a transport guy (not a guide) who drove us to certain places for a very reasonable amount (more than public transport I'm sure - but it was worth it to us).

I'm not sure where Coimbra is.Is that a place we should visit near Lisbon?

THANKS

HappyTrvlr

Coimbra is closer to Porto, and, yes, you definitly should visit. Fantastic old university library. Interesting small city. Also include Evora, east of Lisbon. Obidos, enh? Ok, but overrun with tourism

thursdaysd

Coimbra also has some Roman ruins nearby at Conimbriga. The fountains still work. (Or they did when I was there.) Agree about Evora and Obidos (although I was definitely disappointed in the Roman remains at Evora). I meant the Atlantic coast north of Lisbon.

You do NOT need or want a car in and around Lisbon. I managed fine without one in Porto, too, but if you want to visit the Duoro valley it would make sense. Note, do not miss the port caves while you are in Porto. I recommend Taylors.

If you click on my name you should find my TR for Lisbon, it's a bit old but the sights are still there.

Seamus

Advise to NOT get a car in the cities. Public transport and uber are your friends. Also agree that unless you plan to visit places in between, go via train between Lisbon and Porto. We flew into Porto and out of Lisbon and it worked well.
Also don't advise driving to tour the Douro valley unless you have a very specific itinerary with clear directions and are OK with driving on narrow, winding mountainous roads with sheer drop offs and no guard rails. We are not usually tour group fans, but booked a small group (8 people max) day trip from Porto to Douro valley with stops at three wineries and lunch at one of them - it was excellent. Booked through a wine group but the actual tour provider is a local firm.
You could reasonably rent a car in Lisbon and drive out toward Evora and the Alentejo wineries. Among the historic vineyards Quetzal is a modern winery owned by art collectors, features a gallery with changing exhibitions. Restaurant served an outstanding r lunch with pairings. I did not drive, rather was chauffeured by a lovely woman from the US who now lives in Lisbon and does food and wine tours. We also shopped the market and cooked lunch one day, and it was a blast. You'll need to book in advance at https://grapeolivepig.com/
If you like hiking, you'll love Sintra's Pena Palace as it is definitely a schlep up the hill! The gardens are lovely, and the views from the palace are amazing. Castle itself is pretty bare bones, but cool nonetheless.

zac495

All such great information.
So if we're going to stay in town in Lisbon and Porto, where (considering July and we don't like massive crowds though we may have no choice) would you consider looking for a few beach days? No worries about nightlife for the 24 year old. We want to stay on the beach? Carvoeiro is 2.5 hours drive from Lisbon (not 900 KM). Is it a good choice?

.

PalenQ

Nazarre just south of Porto is a primo seaside town with fine beach - would fit into your itinerary and as the Algarve in July is very mobbed a more relaxed seaside setting - Nazarre or Figuera da Foz just south of Nazarre,

zac495

That sounds beautiful. I was looking at Cascáis earlier today. I was going to say Nazzare sounds great - but I realize my son will fly out of Lisbon day 9 and we'll fly to Madeira. We should be near Lisbon for the flight.... Would Cascais be as good as Nazzare??

New plan will be 4 days Lisbon, 3 days Porto, 3 days (Cascais or Nazzare or Figurea da Foz), 5 days Madeira, last night Lisbon to get on a flight to US.

I have a lot of places I should day trip.Sintra, Evora, Belem. Coimbra, Cascáis (or Nazzare) Montasaro, Guimaraes

I need to look them up to see where they are (I can do that) but am I missing anything spectacular?

PalenQ

Cascais and Estoril area in general would make sense to me - yes really nice beaches and practically in Lisbon - no need of car as commuter trains connect it to Lisbon.

thursdaysd

Do you already have the plane tickets? Because if not I would fly straight on to Madiera on arrival in Lisbon, and fly from there to Porto. You are doing far too much backtracking.

PalenQ

If looking for beach resorts younger one would like I would think Madiera would have as nice of ones as Portugal?

zac495

Actually we just bought the tickets but it shouldn't matter - -because it's another airline for Madeira. That's a good idea.
Thing is - my son can't do as many days - 13 maximum and we're doing 16.

Could one fly from Madeira and safely catch a noon international flight? I doubt it - so your idea makes a lot of sense.

5 Madeira, 4 Lisbon, 3 Porto (and put him on a train back to Lisbon) and go to Cascais without him... Hmmmm

What order/amount of days would you suggest?

thursdaysd

No. Even if the connection is protected (i.e. on the same ticket) you should be in the city your flight leaves from the night before.

There are direct flights from Madiera to Porto on TAP, why would you go via Lisbon? Use the multicity option on the TAP website.

PalenQ

Why Cascais after Madeira for you guys - 4 days there? You only list 12 days above - I'd take 4 days going between Porto and Lisbon -maybe renting a car if that's OK and to me a town like Nazarre is way nicer than Cascais as a town and neat location. 4 days in Cascais?

zac495

Flight to Philadelphia needs to be round trip Lisbon.
phili to Porto doesn't work without a connection. But Lisbon then jNazare and Porto fly to Madeira and back to Lisbon might work.

zac495

4 days Lisbon
2 days Nazare or Cascais or something (or leave them out?? - maybe we should just go to Porto and make the trip 2 days less)
3 days Porto
fly to Madeira 5 nights.
1 night in Lisbon prior to flying back to Philadelphia
That's 15 nights

PalenQ

Looks good - and could do day trips from Porto too to Coimbra, Guimares, Braga all easy by train.