I am a college student who is backpacking in Western Europe for four weeks this summer. I am leaving in early May. I was hoping for advice for first time travelers, places to go, things we should not miss. We have many guidebooks but we are looking for more personal insight into our trip! Thank you!

There are several threads that might be useful to you--ones about people's "magical places," their greatest disappointments, the one city they'd see, the place that exceeded their expectations, personal rules for travel, and probably others. <BR>What's drawing you to Europe? Art, architecture, ambiance? When you think of yourself there, do you see yourself surrounded by bucolic splendor, the weight of past events, a mysterious sense of decadence and decay, or the lingering gifts of long-dead geniuses? <BR>Everyone will tell you not to try to see too much on one trip, and everyone is right. The things you don't see this trip will be there waiting for your next trip (and the ones after that), and if you don't try to cover all of Western Europe in four weeks, you should enjoy yorself enough that you'll want to go back. <BR>Congratulations on being able to get there in early May--you'll beat a lot of the other travellers.

I did the same trip back in 1992 with 3 male friends. Our itinerary in order: Paris, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Vienna, Innsbruck, Rome, Lucca (Italy- to stay with one of my buddy's family), and London. We spent a lot of time on trains (many overnight) using a Eurorail pass. Sleeping on trains doesn't necessarily save you any money as there was a $17 per person charge for a couchette, and sleeping in a regular seat would be horrible. <BR>It was a rather rough trip (we did it on about $50 a day) but one that I will always be glad I did. Of the cities we went to, the best were Paris, Amsterdam, Prague and London. Innsbruck was beautiful, but after hitting the top of the mountain, there was little else. Munich and Vienna just didn't have that much to offer us as we were on a serious budget and Rome was hot, dirty and disappointing. <BR>We generally avoided youth hostels after having a very bad experience in Amsterdam, but were able to find cheap pensions with shared bath for less than $20/night per person in every city (having reservations would have saved us a lot of time in some places). If you're travelling alone though, youth hostels will offer you more chances to meet fellow travellers. <BR>Bring good books and cards. There will be a lot of down time. Spend more than you want to on entertainment. This is a once in a lifetime thing (or at least until you retire) and a couple of hundred more bucks won't matter in a couple of years. <BR> <BR>Have a great time! <BR>

Hi Shannon: <BR> <BR>Sounds like you are in for a wonderful four weeks. I'm jealous! <BR> <BR>I backpacked in Europe for three weeks in May of 1998, which was my first trip to Europe. We started out 4 days in London and the English countryside. Took the Chunnel to Brussels, Belgium, and headed for Brugge, Belgium, which we loved! We had Rick Steves' book called "Best of Europe," which lists many great places that are smaller cities. It seems like all the fun people we met on vacation had this book. Most were in their 20s and 30s and having a GREAT time! <BR> <BR>We spent time in Baccarach, Germany, on the Rhine River. With our Eurorail passes, we could cruise up and down the river at no cost. Another favorite city of mine was Interlaken, Switzerland. Venice, Italy, was great, but a little crowded. It's worth spending at least a day there. <BR> <BR>The South of France was wonderful, although it was a little difficult to communicate since I don't speak French. The closer you get to Paris, the easier it is to find someone who will speak to you in English. Do plan to spend LOTS of time in Paris. My favorite times were just walking around and watching people. It's an interesting and very beautiful city. Don't miss Versailles, which is just north (I think) of Paris. <BR> <BR>May is a great time to be in Europe. The weather is great and, most of all, you get a head-start on all the other tourists! Be sure to pack lightly. Nothing is more miserable than having to carry a backpack for eight hours when it's too heavy. I think mine weighed 26 lbs. Don't go over 20 lbs. And forget the make-up. Who has time to waste putting on make-up when there is so much to see! Have fun! <BR> <BR>

Shannon - Martha hit it right on the head. What's drawing you? Modern culture and arts? Medieval? Renaissance? The 'journey' itself? Four weeks is enought time to hit anywhere from 3-9 'major' stops. Are you travelling alone or with friends? As a woman this should be an item to consider, unfortunately there are places you probably should not go alone. I backpacked for 2 months during college in (yikes) 1994 and it was truly a life shaping experience, I wish you the best of luck and would be gladto provide some specifics if you post some more info about yourself. <BR>Matt <BR>

I did the same thing as you in 1992. Here is my advice some of which has been reiterated on this forum many, many times by various people. <BR> <BR>1) PACK LIGHT!!!!! This cannot be stressed enough. Remember, if you need something, you can always buy it there. <BR> <BR>2) I know you're on a very tight budget, but let me also mention that when you are trying to pack, you will probably try to bring just the right clothes so you can look good (not while touring but maybe while partying). My advice: Bring less stuff and more money and buy some clothes there. Not too much. Maybe just one or two cute outfits that you're really going to want. <BR> <BR>3) I travelled with one old, good friend. But we knew we had the potential to fight and disagree a lot. So we made a tentative itinerary before we left and made an agreement: we can go off the itinerary but in the event of an arguement, we stick to it. Actually, this is one thing that never became a problem for us but we had many others. <BR> <BR>4) Agree before you leave that at least once a week, maybe more, you strike out on your own. This will ease many of the tensions that are sure to come up between you. <BR> <BR>5) Don't try to see everything. For ex, don't breeze through Venice in a day because you will regret it later. This may be your first trip to Europe but believe me, it will not be your last. <BR> <BR>6) Something that you may not think about when you plan your timing: There will be many hidden time consuming events. For example, your friend and you might have to go to the bathroom at different times. This results in twice as many bathroom trips. You may have different eating habits/requirements. This could result in twice as much time looking for the perfect, cheapest place to eat. You will spend a lot of time waiting for trains and other transportation or traveling between the station you need to be at (for example, you could be at Vienna's Westbahnhof when you need to be at the Sudbahnhof). You will also spend a lot of time waiting on lines to buy train supplements (because you will need a lot more than you thought when you bought that "all-inclusive" Eurail or flexi-pass). You will also wait on long information lines (take a number!) just to speak with a representative about train lines/times/etc. This all takes time and should be figured into your travel plans. <BR> <BR>7) To plagiarize someone else's advice (sorry, I don't remember whose): bring more $ and spend it on entertainment, admission fees, tours, and such. A few hundred dollars seems like a lot to a poor college student but in the long run, it is nothing. And you will never be able to repeat the 1st time you backpacked through Europe. It is a once in a lifetime, unique experience. The economy is good, when you get home you can get a job. <BR> <BR>8) If it's not too far out of your way, try to go to Prague. However, I must refer back to my earlier advice in #5. Don't go out of your way to go there if you don't plan going that far east because it is pretty far from western Europe and you could be spending all that travel time seeing sights. <BR> <BR>I could go on and on butI won't. (Actually, I think I already have). You are sure to discover the fun of traveling by yourself. Email me if you have other questions. <BR>

brian, <BR> <BR>which amsterdam hostel was it that you had the bad experience in? i'm travelling there in 4 weeks and plan to stay in the huge new one (sorry - can't remember the name of it). <BR> <BR>also, do people think that $50 (AUST) is enough per day (backpacking and staying in hostels)- i already have train tickets <BR> <BR>thanks

Sam, I don't remember the name of the hostel, but it was just to the right and a couple of blocks away from the train station. It had standing water on the floor (which bred mosquitos) and the shared bathroom was pretty scary. For this I think we paid about US$12 each. I think there are a lot of hostels now, so you should have better luck. <BR>Also, don't show up in town late in the day as we did and expect an easy time finding a room, or you may end up spending your first night at the train station as we did. But you shouldn't have as much trouble since we went in August. <BR>As for whether you can do it on A$50, or about US$32, I think it would be tough unless you scrimp on everything. It's a great city, have a great time! <BR>

Sam: In my opinion, if $50 Austrailian equals $32 American, it cannot be done. You can do it on $100A or $64 American. Unless you plan on camping, sleeping in the train station, or on the beach, about 1/2 or more of this budget would be spent on your sleeping quarters alone. This would leave over practically nothing for food. Then after you ate, you wouldn't be able to do anything. You will have no money for unexpected expenses such as train supplements. You will not have an extra dime for a public bus or subway. You will not be able to see anything or go to the top of anything because this all costs money. Unless you're planning to be in exclusively eastern Europe or planning to work there, wait until you save more money or go for 1/2 the time. I don't think it's possible to do Europe this cheaply, let alone worth the trouble. Standing on the outside of something is not the best way to see Europe. While $100A is still a very budget oriented way to go, it is do-able and you will not feel as if you didn't get to see anything. The no longer write those cliche guide books "Europe on $50 (US) a Day." There are now entitled "Europe FROM $50 a Day." And as a matter of fact, I think the price per day has been upped to $60 (US). That's my opinion.

Hi Shannon! I spent a few months in europe last fall, and you'll have a great time. The best way to save money is to plan on spending more time in each place. You can do it on $50 Australian, but it means cooking at the hostels and walking a lot. Travel takes a lot of time, and often there are reservation fees ($4-5 USD) for each trip (even with a railpass). By visiting fewer cities, you can spread the cost of sightseeing over a few days, sometimes get better rates for staying longer at hotels/hostels, and have a chance to see more local scenery. For 4 weeks, try to pick the major places you want to see. Then try to decide exactly what you want to see in each city, leaving time to wander or to find your way. It usually took me longer to find where I needed to go than it did to actually visit the sight. People backpacking usually rewear clothing A LOT! Some hostels have places to do laundry, but it's about $5 USD a load to wash & dry. Wash as you go if you can. Take an all purpose soap (clothes, you, hair, etc.). Pack light is the biggest thing, especially because you will pick up an amazing amount of Stuff along the way (amount depends on whether you are a pack rat or not). Most hostels have cooking supplies, but you might want to carry along a pocket knife & spoon. Usually you can use a spoon to eat everything, and a knife really comes in handy when buying groceries for picnics, cooking, etc. Email me for more info, but you can do it! Take as little as possible (planning for both warm & cold weather -- even in May). The more prepared you are, the better. <BR>

Thanks for all the great advice everybody. To answer all of your questions: I am travelling with eight of my best friends, I am now a little worried about arguments since someone brought that up but I believe that we will probably end up separating every once in awhile. <BR>We are planning on going to Paris, Munich, Florence, Interlachen, Vienna, Barcelona, London and maybe some other places like Amsterdam, Rome, if we have time, do you think we are trying to do too much? <BR>I am travelling to Europe because I am really interested in the history, the ambience of actually being there! I am so excited to see all the places that I have read about. I really want to spend a great deal of time in Paris, any advice on sights I should not miss while there would be great! <BR>We have already bought our tickets(both rail and plane) I have about $3000 of spending money, should I have more? When in London, we are staying with friends so will not need lodging there. What was your favorite part of any of the cities that I mentioned? <BR>Anything else that you think would be helpful would be greatly appreciated since my friends and I really don't have a clue as to what we are getting ourselves into! Thank you

Yikes! Yes, I think you're trying to do too much (possibly because with eight people and eight votes, everything is going on the list?). <BR>If yu're interested in history, I suggest going to London, Paris, and Florence and seeing some of the smaller cities in between (Oxford, Dijon, and Siena spring to mind). <BR>There's a top ten list for Paris not too far back on this forum, and also a list of off-the-beaten track sights from December (I think).

Shannon, some people think backpacking in Europe means that you carry your pack with you wherever you go. Don't always do that, unless you plan to live out of a small daypack. I have seen young people schlep their huge packs up to the palace in Monte Carlo, drag them around the Roman Forum in 95 degree heat, and stack them around a cafe table like flying buttresses! As much as possible, check your pack at the train station, or leave it in safekeeping at your hotel or hostel. When you visit the sites, take only a very small daypack or just your pockets! We're returning to France and Italy next month with our three kids. Believe me, we think long and hard before dragging our luggage with us anywhere, because mom and dad usually end up like packmules when the kids get tired! Another word of advice is get the Paris Museum pass. It will save you money, force you to go to many sites and museums, allow you to go to the front of the line. It can be bought at large Metro stations, or at the museums, themselves. And finally, don't "poop out" near the end of your trip. I know of some kids who spent the last week hanging out in cafes in Rome, rather than seeing the treasures of the city. A little overkill never hurt anyone, and you will be thankful that you didn't waste your time! <BR>

Shannon, $3,000 for 4 weeks should be plenty, especially since you won't need $$$ for a hotel in London. Plus, the exchange rate has improved greatly since I went in 1992 on $50/day. And Barcelona is a great stop - very affordable to eat/drink. <BR>My favorite places in Paris and Barcelona were in the old gothic quarters. <BR>

I travelled with another woman for 5 + weeks in Europe and it was great. I agree with the first reply--what are you really interested in. We spent time making up lots of itineraries and then refined them down. It worked great--gave us a path and plan but left room to change our mind (which we did). We started in Germany (relatives)--using Eurail passes went by train to Milan, Venice (you can stop along the way), Florence, Pisa, walked along the Cinque Terra (a must!!), Barcelona, Madrid, Granada, quick Stop in Ronda, Marbella, Seville, into Portugal, back to Nice and Monacco and then back to Germany. I wouldn't necessarily recommend trying to get that all in, but you get the point. We varied from our original ideas when we got rained out of Portofino (ended up in Genoa instead and found a Columbus Day celebration!), wandered around Granda and found the greatest potato chips, etc. <BR>I would also recommend Rick Steves and his Europe Through the Back Door, Mona Winks and Europe 101 to give you a sense of things to do. Please feel free to email me direct if you want some additional details on Germany or other areas. I have traveled to Europe several times since the big trip. Have fun.

Sounds like you guys have done a lot of travelling by rail with backpacks. Could somebody help me with the maximum size pack that will work on the trains (preferably by cubic inches or by Brand Name). Thanks

Wow! 8 People! My recommendation would be to have everyone make up a list of a couple sites in each city that they absolutely must see and do a little research on their own. Then get together a week before leaving, order take-out and go thru everyones list and reasons. Most of the biggies will correspond and everyone can go see them together. In the cities where there are discrepancies, leave a 1/2 - 1 day for people to go out on their own. This allows you to get away from the group (you will get on each others nerves from time to time). You get to see what you want and won't waste $$ on site you don't want to see. While I'm not a truly budget traveler, I also love Rick Steves books-great packing and itinerary tips in Europe thru the Back Door. Mona Winks is an excellent tour guide for museums. Go to your local library and check to see if his tv series is in on video. Don't be redundant in what guides you're taking. You don't need 5 guides to London. Have each person get and carry info on a particular area, then exchange info/books etc on the train. Make photo copies of info (front to back). You don't need to carry and entire book on a country if you're only going to see a couple towns. If someone has a particular expertise, art history, architecture, archaeology - have them be a tour guide. Be sure to respect others - especially when traveling as a big group. Have fun!

Shannon, <BR>I just bought my backpack at REI for $100. It is the Jansport Bhutan, the capacity is 5100 cubic inches and it has a detachable daypack. It seems great - large enough for all my stuff but small enough to be considered a carry-on when you detach the daypack! <BR>Have fun! <BR>Jeanie