Hello people,

I have always come across this site when searching for certain travel related information and thought why not post a message and try to get some answers from you guys! I've read a lot of threads about this topic but I want to try from my angle so hear me out? Here goes...

I am an Australian citizen, I entered the UK and went to Spain straight away on the 23rd April 2006. I have been to France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, The Netherlands, the UK and now I am in Hungary. On the 20th July 2006 I will have been in the UK/Europe for 90 days. I need to stay longer, so my question is how can I go about this?
As Switzerland is NOT part of the European Union, would I be able to go there for 2 days, have my passport stamped as proof of being there, and then re-enter the EU for another 90 days? Or is this not possible because of the Schengen agreement?

If I cannot go to Switzerland, then can I go to America or Australia or Asia or anywhere else in the world for 2 days and then re-enter the EU to restart my 90 days?

Or must I visit an embassy of a country I would like to obtain a holiday/work Visa?

Hope you can help, a lot of you seem to know what you're talking about so if you give me some answers I'd really appreciate it. In return I might let you in on some of my secrets of how to get away with not paying excess baggage fees!

Thanks a lot, you can email me at [email protected]

Hi M or C or K,

You are supposed to apply for a visa before you leave.

You can visit the Schengen countries for only 90 days in any 6 month period.

You might want to visit
http://www.delvnm.cec.eu.int/en/Sche...n_schengen.htm

Unfortunately, it's 90 days in a period of 6 months. Going to Switzerland in between won't make a difference.

<< Australian travelling in Europe more than 90 days >>

<< and then re-enter the EU to restart my 90 days? >>

In neither case is there ANY problem with Ozzies staying more than 90 days.

What is a problem is an Ozzie staying for more than 90 days in the Schengen Zone.

The Schengen zone consists of a number of countries SOME of which are EU countries. There are also SOME EU countries that AREN'T part of the Schnegen agreement.

Within the Schengen Zone you are limited to 90 days within a consecutive 180 days IN TOTAL. For countries that aren't in the Schengen zone you have to know the rules for that particular country EVEN if they are an EU country

>SOME
a little exagerated ;-) (=Iceland, Norway)

And from next year SWITZERLAND - And of course only 13 of the 25 EU countries are part of Schengen

You can't work legally anywhere in Europe without a work visa. This is granted by an individual country, is valid only for work in that country and almost always always needs to be applied for outside.

You've probably used up your 90 Schengen days already. But you get 180 days in the UK, and separate amounts of 90 days or so for each other non-Schengen country. So as long as you stay outside Schengen (for Med heat, try Malta or Cyprus) you're fine.

There's no clever-clever way of getting round the Schengen rules: EU bureaucrats just aren't that stupid, and it's naively idiotic to think they are.

Most of Europe and its periphery isn't in Schengen. Just spend your OE in countries - like Britain and Ireland - that aren't as xenophobic as that preposterously insular hangover from the 19th century.

Although it's illegal for you to work in Britain or Ireland without a working visa, our police forces have better things to do than track down illegal Australians. And, since our economies aren't the job-destroying basket cases Schengen's are, there's a huge choice of jobs to do here.

Hi everyone,
Thanks for helping me out. I am still completely confused because I have read so much stuff on the net about the Schengen zone and the EU countries. I have read that, as an Australian citizen, I can be in the UK for up to 180 days. I hsve only spent about 2 days in the UK out of the whole time I've been in Europe.

I understand I should contact the country I will be visiting, but I will be visiting several countries so I don't know which one to contact! I have been in countries that belong to the Schengen zone and I've also visited countries that DO NOT belong to the Schengen zone, including Switzerland and Hungary.

So as I have spent part of my first 90 days in countries that ARE NOT in the Schengen zone, could I use those days as a buffer? Could I say ok I've entered the EU on April 23 and now I have been within the Schengen for around 80 days, but of those 80 days I have been in a non-Schengen country for around 26 days, not consecutively, but in total I have spent 26 days outside the Schengen. Can I then say that my count of days is only 54 instead of 80? So then I have another 26 free days to spend in Schengen countries?

This is a confusing matter for me, annoying and frustrating, I just wanna concentrate on my golf!!

By the way, milka or cadbury people?

Hey M,

From the website I gave you:

"The total duration of stay, whether one or several visits, may not exceed three months within half a year ..."

Ok so if I was to go home to Australia for a month and then come back to Europe (I am meant to go to Spain, Swede, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Austria and the UK) are you saying I would not be allowed back into the Schengen zone because I have not been OUT of it for the same amount of time I was IN it? I doubt that is the case because all the other Aussie girls I know do exactly that, go home for a few weeks and come back for another 90 days. One of my friends just flew to America for a week and came back to Europe for another 90 days, no probs, so I should be able to do this yeah? If so then my problems are solved I'll just book a flight to the States and have lovely holiday in Florida

Ira wrote '"The total duration of stay, whether one or several visits, may not exceed three months within half a year ..."

That is the key, you need to add up how many days you've been in different schengan countries within the last 6 months if it is near to or more than 90 days, then you could have potential problems, otherwise you could go to the UK for 3 - 6 months without any problems.

Your friends are going to the US, Australia etc it really dosn't make a difference as it does not mean a new 6 months period will begin.

People do get away with staying longer but it is a risk and no one on this forum can give you the odds on not being caught.

As you're a Commonwealth citizen then you can get a 2 year work permit for only the UK provided your under 30 but this is usually processed via the British Embassy in Canberra.

Geordie

So is there ANY way at all that I can get some kind of extension? Like if I go to an embassy in one of the countries I am going to visit before my 90 days are up, can I request some kind of extension? This is crazy shit, I can't believe all this! I can't believe I didn't know any of this before I came over. I had no idea what the hell a 'Schengen' was or the European Union! Wish it wasn't so bloody complicated!

Please moderate your language.
It's up to every traveller to find out about immigration rules of the country they want to visit and abide by them. Do you have any sympathy for someone ranting and raving in your country that they knew nothing about Australian immigration rules before arriving? Will you be happy when visitors to your country started flouting your law? You are a guest in Europe and you have to know and keep to the rules.

why not go home, and after you get your s**t together, travel back to Europe legally . . . . . .

You can go to the Australian embassy and request an extension on your non-lucrative tourist visa. They are not particularly forthcoming, but sometimes will grant them.

I apologis for saying "s%@#" on this forum, but don't get your knickers in a knot. Here is some info I recently found out...

For us, Australians, we treat each country is a seperate identity,even though they are part of Europe.The 90 days applies for that particular country each time you enter ,not Europe as a whole.Therefore each time you re-enter a country, Britian,the 90 days starts again. Thats basically it.

Here is a little more info for you, to help you understand.

Even though Europe is Europe as a whole made up of lots of countries, Europe is divided into two areas, European Union countries and Non-European Union countries.
You may of noticed in you travels that the passport line will say 'EU" countries and "all other passports".
If you travel on for example a British, French,German, etc passport which are countries that are members of the EU you go through that line.The rest of us go through the other line.Anytime a person with EU passport travels in a EU country they can pretty much do what they want.Live, work etc ( its like it is one BIG country).

However if you travel on a passport that is not EU, like us an Australian passport or in a counrty that is a non EU country. You have to follow the rules of that country. Luckly most of the countries that we visit on tour allow us to stay in that country for a good amount of time,usually 3 months without needing a visa.However, We will need a visa for The United Arab Emirates, Dubai.

It is only when you want to stay in a particular country for over the allowed time that you will need a visa.Therefore each time you leave a country and re-enter that country the 3 months start again.So when you enter the UK again after Hungry your 3 months will re start. As long as you do not stay in the UK ( or any other country for that matter) for longer than 3 months with out ever leaving you will be ok to come and go for the golfing season.Because we are constantly moving around it is ok.There should be no reason to go to the USA.

That came from a friend of mine who has been travelling to Europe for years and years with no problems. Can I say "Crikey"?

Laclaire wrote "You can go to the Australian embassy and request an extension on your non-lucrative tourist visa."

This is not true, the Australian embassy does not give out visas for Europe, how could it!

I believe your friend is doing what they say but it doesn't make it legal.

Firstly, they are wrong about 3 months only in the UK, its 6 months.

The issue is not that the 90 days start again, the issue is that you only allowed 90 out of 180 in a Schengan Country, therefore you've immediately broken the rule when you re-enter.

Now would they stop you, probably not, but they could.

Can you get an extension, yes you can but from my experience you need to be living somewhere to show the rental agreement, you have health cover and sufficient funds and that you intend to leave after the next 3 months as they will only extend it another 90 days. This has to be done in a particular country e.g France, Italy etc, as there is no Schengan Embassy.

Are your parents or grandparents european as you may be eligible for a passport. (Australia allows dual nationality)

In conclusion, you can skip between countries 'probably' without a problem but remember what your doing is illegal and it can come back to haunt you especially if they put you in a 'Villawood Sydney' type institution.

Ps check out thorn tree on Lonely Planet as they have backpackers who face similar challenges. By the way, I've had the same problems in the past, in Australia, now that's an impossible situation.

Geordie

I'm sorry. I posted all wonky. You can request an extension of your visa, which should be done at home in Australia at the Spanish consulate, but if you are traveling in EU countries, there is an office. I went to one in Madrid, but don't remember what it was called. If you go to the Spanish consulate website in your home country (in this case, Australia), the restrictions are there.

You were correct when you said you had to follow the rules of the country you are visiting, and I know that Spain, for example, has the 3 months in 6 rule. Leaving it for 2 days and going somewhere else (Morocco, for example) will not change that. And going to Italy, which is a Schengen state, will just keep the time counting down.

The way that your friend is traveling is not legal. There are many people that do it and do not pay for it, but there is always the chance of being asked to leave and not come back.

Schengen Zone is simple - you treat it as a single country for visa purposes.

The Schengen rule is that once you enter the zone you can only spend 90 days out of the next 180 days in the Zone.

They don't care how you do it - 90 days in 90 days out, 1 day in 1 day out & repeat - as long as after 180 days from the 1st time you enter the zone you haven't spent more than 90 of them in the Zone.

So OP has spent 80 days in something he thinks is Europe/EU/Schengen depending on which sentence you read of which 54 days are in Schengen Zone countries.

Therefore he has only spent 54 days in the Schengen Zone & therefore can spend another 36 days in the next 100 days in the Schengen Zone, the rest of the time he must go elsewhere.

BTW entering the EU is NOT the same as enterting a Schengen country

BTW milka for non-EU folk, Europe is split between Schengen & non-Schengen Europe,.

Mentioning the EU in a post about tourism for non-EU people just complicates the matter.

Let's reflect on the rationale for the Schengen agreement, which is to do with the elimination of internal borders. Those who have signed up to the implementation of full agreements have decided to cease border formalities within Schengen area - there will be a free movement of people to and from other Schengen countries, checks only being acrried out to those arriving from outside the area. This is agreement No 1.
Agreement No 2 is about uniform Schengen visa/visa-waiver for short-term visitors. This doesn't affect those who are coming for non-tourist purposes, such as study, work, family, settlement and retirement etc, for which individual country retains full control. For those who don't require a visa, they are admitted to Schengen area for 90 days in any continuous period of 180 days, and 90 days can be in a continuous stay or an aggregate of shorter stays. Once the 90 days are up, they must leave Schengen for at least 90 days before re-entering and being allowed to stay for further 90 days, and so on. There are no facilities for extending the 90 days, so you cannot go to the authorities in a Schengen country and ask to extend your stay. Each country does issue long-term visa for those who want to stay for a nextended period in their country, but this normally has to be applied in the traveller's home country, and it's quite an hassle to get one as you have to show your financial ability, health insurance valid in their country and proof of your eventual return etc. Once armed with such a visa, you can then travel in other Schengen countries, officially for 90-in-180 days, but in practice as long as your visa remains valid. For those who require a visa to enter Schengen (e.g. Indians, Chinese etc), there are various kinds, from a single-entry 90 days visa to a multiple-entry 5 year visa. The latter is only issued to people like international executives who make frequent trips to Europe. Even then, each individual trip is restricted to 90-in-180 days - 5-year visa only eliminates the need to get a new one for each trip.
The reason for having the 90-in-180 days rule is to stop the abuse of the system, in which people leave Schengen just for a day and then re-enter to reset the clock for further stay. If it were allowed, non-EU nationals would have a carte-blanche to extend their stay indefinitely. While Schengen countries lower barriers for genuine visitors who benefit their countries, they don't want to encourage illegal immigrants and economical migrants who take jobs from locals and become a drain on society. Those who suffer are genuine visitors who want an extended stay in Schengen area. The very rich rarely suffer, as they can set up residence (in a tax haven like Monaco). Pre-Schengen days, Americans, Australians and Japanese etc could stay in each European country (or a cluster of them like Benelux and Nordic) for 3 months, so could virtually stay in Europe indefinitely, but this is no longer the case.