I have 5 days b/n a study abroad program in Italy and Russia this summer. Does anyone have any tips as to where I should go to see truly great urban design/placemaking/transportation systems, etc.? Thanks in advance. -E

Big places, Italy and Russia. Care to be a bit more specific?

...Welcome to Fodorland.

We are touring Rome/Florence/Amalfi in Italy. Our last stop is Rome, and I have 5 days before I need to be in St. Pete's for my next class.

My schedules are packed for those two countries, and I really want to maximize my time looking at great cities/places/neighborhoods from a design point of view.

Thanks for the welcome.

For Italy, are you talking about modern urban transportation solutions designed to accommodate trains, planes and automobiles, or historic urban planning -- like the ports designed by Leonardo da Vinci, or the Duke of Montefeltro's master plan for Urbino?

BOTH!

Those are the things I'd like to know about before I go, and what other coutries I could see in my 5 day window. I asked my professor for recommendations like those two things you mentioned, and didn't get a response. Do you know if there is a book or net site I could visit to learn more about the design aspect before I go?

If you go to amazon.com and search for >Renaissance Italy urban planning<, you will get quite a few recommendations, including books on later periods such as the Baroque.

Many of the books are expensive, but your university library ought to have them.

Try e-mailing these people or seeing if they've produced a book:

http://www.princeton.edu/~paw/archiv...features2.html

You are really asking quite a vast question. Given your itinerary for Italy, you are not going to see much in the way of modern urban planning in Italy, much of which is most evident in places they were bombed during WWII. Of interest to me is how Italians create inudstrial zones to preserve both scenic beauty and old town centers; also, some of their engineering feast in boring train and auto tunnels through mountains, often using the same tunnels the Romans did. The Amalfi drive is a marvel of road engineering.

Anyway, Italy is fantastically rich in urban design studies, and I certainly hope you are going to Pompeii. When you see the network of roads there, you will be amazed. You should make time to go to Naples just to walk through and watch traffic. Lawlessness is actually one of the only ways traffic keeps moving in that city. Stop signs and lights would result in permanent gridlock, I think.

But every country in Europe has had its grand experiments in urban planning, with mixed results! It's still a lively topic (Amsterdam and Holland in general is a real hotspot for it.)

Since you are going to Firenze, take a look at some websites for Siena and Lucca and see if that begins to come close to at least half of what you are looking for.

Yeah, the cliches abound - Tuscan hill towns and villages; Roman bits and pieces etc.

Frankly I'd go early to St. Petersburg and spend the extra days traveling to Vyborg or especially Novgorod, as well as getting a head-start on how neoclassical city planning was hijacked by central planning under the Soviets, then re-hijacked after the war, then re-re hijacked after the USSR breakup. The city as a visual and structural record of changing social policy is a fascinating subject in Russia. Petrodvortets (Summer Palace) is also a fascinating story of restoration and historic "preservation" following the Nazi siege - find out about the "lost arts" that the Russians had to re-create after the Germans whacked the place.

You should also consult the UN World Heritage List at http://whc.unesco.org so you don't miss heritage sites that might not get mentioned in the guidebooks.

I think it highly unlikely that anyone at Princeton will respond to a question about an article published three years ago...

As a student of design, you should be aware that the Princeton Architectural Press is one of the most respected in the country:

http://www.papress.com/

The MIT Press is not to be sniffed at either:

http://mitpress.mit.edu/main/home/default.asp

As far as that goes, you could look at the course descriptions of the schools of architecture at Princeton, MIT, Harvard and Yale. I'm sure they include urban planning in their architectural history courses; the course descriptions are likely to mention the cities being studied.

Eloise, are you an academic or a writer?

Such people often do respond to requests. Some don't. I see no reason not to try. They may have written a catalogue for that exhibit, or even better, could more simply answer the question.

No, but I worked for 15 years in a museum of architecture. Our curators - staff and visiting - did not respond to general questions about previous exhibitions; at best, they mentioned that a catalogue had - or had not - been published and was - or was not - still available.

Specific questions from scholars about individual works in the collection are always answered by the staff curators. I don't think E_M, at this point in time, would fit the definition of "scholar."

And that's what I posted! Maybe they wrote a book or a catalogue that E.M. could buy. As you said, they might respond to that inquiry.

Anyway, we have different experiences. My experience of people with a passion for a subject is that they enjoy sharing that passion, especially with the young.

E.M. can weigh both our reactions and decide whether it is worth contacting the people. But maybe we both can agree such a catalogue would be useful, given his interests.

Consider stepping back to observe rather than trying to cover so much territory. Absorb the urban landscape. Check out the grand and not so grand urban spaces. Try to get a sense of why they're still vital and alive centuries later. Get a feel for the spatial relationships, materials, color, texture, scale, movement, shades and shadows--all of the basic elements of design. Assume you'll go back and enjoy yourself.

Passionate though they may be about their subject, museum curators are generally overburdened with work and rarely have the time to communicate their passion to young people - particularly to young people who turn to a travel forum for answers to questions that they should be researching on their own.

Eloise,

Then these people won't answer. Like I said, my professional experience is different than yours. Not everybody resents being asked or taking time to help the young.

I think E.M. can decide for himself, and he shouldn't be discouraged from asking anywhere -- certainly not the people most likely to have a good answer. I'm sure he knows people may not respond to a request. Asking *is* research.

But please, I'm tired of these meta-tangles on Fodor's with people trying to discourage other people's questions and answers.

Basta!

Or maybe I should say "Pace!" instead.

EM thanks everyone for their input. SHE can also decide for herself as to what advice to accept.

My itinerary for Italy and Russia has already been set by my professors; yes, we are going to Naples and Pompeii. I have heard that Holland is a wonderful place to go for this, however, it is't really between Italy and Russia. I was wondering if there is anything in Vienna, as it's more midway in between.

Yes, I realize that posting on a travel forum doesn't quite qualify as research. I have spent considerable time in my library reading, as well as talking to my professors. In reading the Fodor's forums, I was simply wondering if anyone else had any tips. One would assume that the people posting here for B&Bs, airline rules, etc, should also do their own research and call such companies directly.

Ness & Gardy, thanks for the tips. I will check them out.

Apologies for the gender swap. Good luck on you trip. Geographically, it's not clear to me what would be a good "in between" city and you might check out the Which Budget airlines site to see what kind of cheap airfares you could get. A lot of things might be possible other than what looks possible on a map.

You're very welcome, E_M.

About Vienna: "Shaping the Great City: Modern Architecture in Central Europe, 1890-1937"

Central Europe is conveniently located between Russia and Italy. I am not sure that it can be covered in five days.