My husband and I have dinner reservations for Christmas Eve at Altitude 95. Should he take a jacket for this meal and one other at a very nice restaurant in Blere? Or would a sweater with nice slacks be OK?
Thanks!

Hi L,

This question has never been resolved.

One school, let's call them the old codgers, believes that gentlemen wear jackets when dining in public.

Another school, let's call them the young whippersnappers, think that jackets are never needed.

A third school, let's call them the fashionably grungy, thinks that anything goes, anywhere, anytime.

They are the reason why you see signs that say "Bathing Suits are not Permitted in the Dining Room".

You decide which school you belong to.

Gee, ira, I don't fit into any of those groups. Where's the category for those who believe that a fashionable and nice restaurant calls for fashionable and nice dress, but that doesn't necessarily mean a jacket if one is not specified as being required? And what's the name for that group?

I'm part of the young whippersnappers crowd (I have 3 grandchildren, oldest one 11 yo) who believes that a jacket is not required for most restaurants in Europe as we usually don't dine in the Michelin rated restaurants.

We had lunch at Altitude 95 in February several years ago and I wore a nice pair of wool slacks, a turtleneck, and a blazer, and was perfectly comfortable. The people were dressed anywhere from a nice sweater to a suit (looked like a business luncheon group). Maybe someone who had dinner there could chime in.

P.S.
ira, you left out the Nieman Marcus crowd.

Please take your seats! Ira's Famous Fashion School is now in session!!!!!

Ira, just curious: From your statements, it would seem that you advocate wearing a jacket on any and all restaurant occasions....just want to make sure where you stand on this pressing issue...

Hi Neo,

You are among the young whippersnappers.

Hi ek,

>..it would seem that you advocate wearing a jacket on any and all restaurant occasions....<

I said, "gentlemen wear jackets when dining in public".

That doesn't include breakfast, elevens's, lunch, tea, hanging out in a pub, fish fries, the 19th hole, tiki huts, tailgating, fast food places or sandwich stands.

Well you need to put those exceptions in the opening lecture then! Do you frequent lots of tiki huts?

OK, I have my hand up now....Ira, what is the recommended attire for women in a "nice" restaurant? Are there any "no-no's" aside from the obvious tank tops and jeans and sneakers?

Is there recommended reading for this class?

Just for the record, my usual posts would seem to put me in ira's "young whippersnapper" category, which is a pleasant surprise from the expected "old codger" category.

But my comments about dress for men in Paris usually have to do with July and August, where I firmly believe that a nice dressy shirt and slacks ARE appropriate at nearly any restaurant. On the other hand if a place specifically says "jacket required" then so be it. On the other hand (oops, do I really have three hands?), we are talking about the Eiffel Tower here, we are talking about Christmas Eve (a special time), and we are talking about WINTER in Paris. I'd probably wear a jacket -- and even a tie (gasp). Now ask again about July and I'll probably give you a different answer.

Ooops, ira hadn't yet reposted. ira, you have made my day -- being called a young whippersnapper at 60!!!!!
But I don't fit into your definitiion. I most certainly believe that a jacket IS called for when required. I would never think to go to Le Bernardin or similar places without a jacket.

I just don't happen to think that a gentleman wearing a 1970's polyester leisure suit jacket is more refined than a gentleman in a Donna Karen silk shirt with nice trousers. (Hey, I'm from Florida where that first outfit is often the norm). Fashionable dress is NOT just about jacket or no jacket.

(With hand raised)...I agree with Patrick aka Neo.
Is a cheesy poly off-the-rack jacket better than a nice Charvet custom shirt? And what about footwear, Ira..what kind of shoes must a gentleman wear in order not to be banished into the (shudder, "young whippersnapper", category?) With all rrepect, I think you left out a category: "Well dressed with a modicum of style, any age group permitted..."

AMEN, ekscrunchy. Please put me in that new category (at least I hope so).

I think some restaurants really are saying "we know most men don't have any sense of style, so we'll just say jacket suggested so that you know we want you to dress up a little instead of looking like slobs. But if for some reason you do have fashion sense, you are certainly welcome to show it."

Definitely wear a jacket on Christmas Eve at Altitude 95, or any other "nice" restaurant.

Women can wear good looking outfit with pants.

Christmas Eve is a festive occasion.

I had dinner Christmas Eve at Violon d'Ingres a few years back. I wore a red jacket with nice whatever underneath and a dressy back skirt.
The following day (Christmas) I had dinner at Les Ambassadeurs in the Hotel Crillon. I believe I wore a dressy black jacket and skirt.

I am definitely of the conservative type and feel that both ladies and gentlemen should dress as such.

Well, I had no intention of conducting a class.

I won't answer any questions until tuition has been paid.

>Fashionable dress is NOT just about jacket or no jacket. <

Fashion has nothing to do with it. Gentlemen wear jackets when dining in public. Period.

If you are breast feeding a baby boy at the dinner table at Taillevent, the child should be wearing a jacket.

Thanks to all for the input. I think I like the idea of a turtle neck with jacket, especially since he will wear it at least twice on the trip.
Other good news is that we got confirmation today for the Scavi tour in May! I was shocked not only that we will be able to take the tour, but that we heard so far ahead.
L

You probably got a tad more than you expected.

Jules Verne has its own personal elevator to get to the top, but Altitude 95 doesn't. We found that out when we got there. I'm not sure what the protocol is for taking the elevator up to the first deck.

Once I found out there was no private elevator for Altitude 95, I looked at the long line for the regular elevator and thought to myself that I would never make it in time for my reservation if we stood in that line to get our tickets for the elevator.

I walked to the front to ask one of the attendants, and he motioned over to the ticket counter. I got lots of dirty looks when I cut in line to buy our tickets. At the time, there was no separate line to buy tickets to Altitude 95.

You might want to check that out before you go and find out the correct protocol for getting up there.

I think as long as you have the jacket with you anyway, you should wear it -- why not? It will be cold, and I agree with the idea that Christmas Eve is a festive occasion. What's the big deal with mean and jackets, anyway, and why they don't want to wear one. I see French guys where I live wear such blazers or "sport coats" just out to a casual bistro or the movies on Sunday afternoon (we have quite a lot of French expats in my city).

However, I know Altitude 95 isn't that fancy a restaurant, so I don't think you would have to, unless a really nice restaurant. I don't see the point of these arguments about how someone can dress really ugly and tacky and in bad taste in an ugly jackets versus wonderful designer, stylish clothes that are not a "jacket". Believe me, no guy wearing ugly polyester jackets is going to be a real fashion model all of a sudden in his other clothes -- they are probably just as ugly or worse.

What a laugh! Ira, I'm with you on this issue especially because of Christmas Eve.
A lady once remarked....."You can never be too overdressed m'dear!"
Lelei - it seems it's entirely up to you! I can't imagine the Maitre 'D looking down his nose at you whatever you wear. They only want your bucks.
I loved Altitude 95, cramed to the hilt with Tour Operators clients!

Crammed .... really crammed. We all had the most wonderful evening!

Here are some pictures that I had fun looking at - showing how people were dressed for a private party at Le Café de l'Homme in Paris: (You can scroll through and enlarge the photos)

http://tinyurl.com/yelbj6

Mostly sportcoats, a few ties, some scarves, a few shirts and sweaters, and a few who show that American men do not have a monopoly on bad taste!

And the women are in black, black, and more black.

marcy, did you say that wrong on purpose? The men in those pictures are in black, black,and more black. I see only one man NOT in black. I see women in red, white, pink. . .