Areas to avoid as a person of color?
Apr 11th, 2015, 11:55 AM
#22
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"I'm not understanding the cause of your hostility."
Heh heh, I think your imagination is working overtime. It's not a "hostile act" to point out that there is no comment by anyone questioning the existence of racism (and hence no reason for you to call anyone ignorant.) Nor is it hostile to ask a question that challenges your reasoning.
I would like to ask one more question. (Hope you find no hostility. None is intended.)
You said, "I would advise some people to not visit certain areas in the state I live in." What state is it in America where a person of color cannot safely walk the streets as a visitor/tourist because of racism in the community? And there are multiple places in that state?
Heh heh, I think your imagination is working overtime. It's not a "hostile act" to point out that there is no comment by anyone questioning the existence of racism (and hence no reason for you to call anyone ignorant.) Nor is it hostile to ask a question that challenges your reasoning.
I would like to ask one more question. (Hope you find no hostility. None is intended.)
You said, "I would advise some people to not visit certain areas in the state I live in." What state is it in America where a person of color cannot safely walk the streets as a visitor/tourist because of racism in the community? And there are multiple places in that state?
Apr 11th, 2015, 11:56 AM
#23
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OP's question, made me think what advice i would give to a person of colour visiting Athens... and YES i would strongly recommend to stay away from certain areas where there have been attacks against immigrants from members of the fascistic Golden Dawn party.
These areas are not of touristic interest of course, and no tourist would visit them, but they exist.
German Fodorites mentioned that there are some areas in Berlin as well, and i have witnessed racistic behaviour in both Germany and Austria where i lived, fortunately only of the verbal kind.
I find OP's question absolutely legitimate.
These areas are not of touristic interest of course, and no tourist would visit them, but they exist.
German Fodorites mentioned that there are some areas in Berlin as well, and i have witnessed racistic behaviour in both Germany and Austria where i lived, fortunately only of the verbal kind.
I find OP's question absolutely legitimate.
Apr 11th, 2015, 11:58 AM
#24
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Frankfurt...
"2011 Frankfurt Airport shooting The 2011 Frankfurt Airport shooting occurred on 2 March 2011 at Frankfurt Airport in Germany. The shooter, Arid Uka, was arrested and charged with killing two United States airmen and seriously wounding two others. He was sentenced to life in prison on 10 February 2012."
"2011 Frankfurt Airport shooting The 2011 Frankfurt Airport shooting occurred on 2 March 2011 at Frankfurt Airport in Germany. The shooter, Arid Uka, was arrested and charged with killing two United States airmen and seriously wounding two others. He was sentenced to life in prison on 10 February 2012."
Apr 11th, 2015, 12:04 PM
#25
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What Mainhattengirl said.. the so-called "anti islamic extremism" demonstrations which started in the state capitals of the East and only there have significant dimwit followers are just a disgusting mix of neo-nazis and brain-dead bigots who live in cities and regions which do not even have that "massive stream of immigration" they proclaim. Germans who actually live in diverse multi-ethnic cities like Frankfurt, Munich or Berlin neither believe nor follow that BS but rather chase those idiots back under the rocks they crawled under from.
Apr 11th, 2015, 12:32 PM
#27
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One random loner attack 4 years ago does not add up to racial demonstrations in Frankfurt.
Tourists have not been attacked in Dresden or Leibzig, but if it was me and I knew there were demonstrations going on that were anti-foreigner, it would make me uncomfortable and not want to give out my hard earned cash to a city that had a large population that felt that way. It would just make me wary and not want to be there.
Tourists have not been attacked in Dresden or Leibzig, but if it was me and I knew there were demonstrations going on that were anti-foreigner, it would make me uncomfortable and not want to give out my hard earned cash to a city that had a large population that felt that way. It would just make me wary and not want to be there.
Apr 11th, 2015, 12:42 PM
#28
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No, let's be absolutely straight.
I'm saying I am appalled that racism still exists. It should have faded out sometime after we discovered fire and left the caves.
The OP was a fully justified question and it is appalling that he is in a position that he needs to ask the question.
I can fully understand prejudice which generalises a race based on for example what its leaders have done.
Colour prejudice, in the absence of any other value judgement is baffling.
I'm saying I am appalled that racism still exists. It should have faded out sometime after we discovered fire and left the caves.
The OP was a fully justified question and it is appalling that he is in a position that he needs to ask the question.
I can fully understand prejudice which generalises a race based on for example what its leaders have done.
Colour prejudice, in the absence of any other value judgement is baffling.
Apr 11th, 2015, 12:55 PM
#30
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Fussgaenger, I believe you're starting to take away from the actual question and are just commenting for arguments sake. This is the last time I'm going to respond to your comments, just because it's taking away from people just honestly answering my question. I know you must be aware of the recent act of police brutality against a young man who was shot and had a taser planted on him in South Carolina. But I live in Texas and there are places in Texas that I would not advise people of Hispanic descent to go into, just because of the rude, stereotypical treatment they may receive due to the strong Anti-Mexican feelings towards the border. But please, I'm inquiring about this because I'm curious about this country and really want to go. Let people have their opinions and move on.
Apr 11th, 2015, 12:58 PM
#32
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Many races or nationalities face seminal moments in time when they visit a site. Many are effected by places like the German concentration camps.
For me that moment came on a South Carolina Plantation museum when I came to fully appreciate the crimes my country (Britain) had created in the name of wealth creation. The plantations were death camps for Africans, transported to the Americas for our enrichment. Most of this is papered over in the teaching of British history.
Is the OP valid for Britain?
There have been cases of non white tourists being murdered in violent areas simply because they were "foreigners". Not many but it has happened.
For me that moment came on a South Carolina Plantation museum when I came to fully appreciate the crimes my country (Britain) had created in the name of wealth creation. The plantations were death camps for Africans, transported to the Americas for our enrichment. Most of this is papered over in the teaching of British history.
Is the OP valid for Britain?
There have been cases of non white tourists being murdered in violent areas simply because they were "foreigners". Not many but it has happened.
Apr 11th, 2015, 01:01 PM
#33
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The types of racism you encounter in Europe are rather different from what you encounter in the US.
In the US, it's not respectable to make openly racist remarks. People who aspire to respectability proclaim that they love everybody, or that they have good friends who are black, like whats-iz-name who works at the 7-11, and that their black nanny was just like a member of the family. European racists are much more up-front about their prejudices. No one who's lived in Europe for more than a year can honestly say they've never heard racist remarks spouted by seemingly respectable people.
Americans, even those proclaimed nonracists, are much more likely to believe, deep down, that black people aren't all that smart. European racists don't know, and don't care, whether black people are just as smart as they are, but whether they are or not, they just don't like them and don't want them around.
American racists think that black people are very likely to be thieves. European racists don't really think Africans are thieves; they think most of the thieving is done by Gypsies, Albanians, and Moldavians.
American racists are fixated on black people and, to a lesser extent, Hispanics. European racists don't like anyone who isn't of their own particular ethnic and religious group. They don't even care much for people from different regions in their own country.
In the US, it's not respectable to make openly racist remarks. People who aspire to respectability proclaim that they love everybody, or that they have good friends who are black, like whats-iz-name who works at the 7-11, and that their black nanny was just like a member of the family. European racists are much more up-front about their prejudices. No one who's lived in Europe for more than a year can honestly say they've never heard racist remarks spouted by seemingly respectable people.
Americans, even those proclaimed nonracists, are much more likely to believe, deep down, that black people aren't all that smart. European racists don't know, and don't care, whether black people are just as smart as they are, but whether they are or not, they just don't like them and don't want them around.
American racists think that black people are very likely to be thieves. European racists don't really think Africans are thieves; they think most of the thieving is done by Gypsies, Albanians, and Moldavians.
American racists are fixated on black people and, to a lesser extent, Hispanics. European racists don't like anyone who isn't of their own particular ethnic and religious group. They don't even care much for people from different regions in their own country.
Apr 11th, 2015, 01:02 PM
#34
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"...if it was me and I knew there were demonstrations going on that were anti-foreigner, it would make me uncomfortable..."
Maybe. But Pegida isn't "ANTI-FOREIGNER" - it argues against the Islamization of Germany. It opposes...
"...the Islamization of the Western world, calling for more restrictive immigration rules, particularly for Muslims. It seeks to alter German immigration legislation so that it becomes similar to Australian immigration programs and Canadian immigration categories."
(Wikipedia)
I sort of doubt that becoming more Canadian or Australian is all that radical. But that's neither here nor there.
Is Pegida a threat to visitors? Hey, I'm generally all for avoiding demonstrations of any kind when I travel. But let's not scare the OP into thinking Pegida has it in for her!
In fact, if there's a threat to casual visitors at all, there's a threat to all of them and Leipzig locals too, regardless of their race, and it may be the anti-Pegida folks that are the most dangerous protesters and the leftists are the tourist's worst threat.
http://www.thelocal.de/20150116/600-...hrough-leipzig
Maybe. But Pegida isn't "ANTI-FOREIGNER" - it argues against the Islamization of Germany. It opposes...
"...the Islamization of the Western world, calling for more restrictive immigration rules, particularly for Muslims. It seeks to alter German immigration legislation so that it becomes similar to Australian immigration programs and Canadian immigration categories."
(Wikipedia)
I sort of doubt that becoming more Canadian or Australian is all that radical. But that's neither here nor there.
Is Pegida a threat to visitors? Hey, I'm generally all for avoiding demonstrations of any kind when I travel. But let's not scare the OP into thinking Pegida has it in for her!
In fact, if there's a threat to casual visitors at all, there's a threat to all of them and Leipzig locals too, regardless of their race, and it may be the anti-Pegida folks that are the most dangerous protesters and the leftists are the tourist's worst threat.
http://www.thelocal.de/20150116/600-...hrough-leipzig
Apr 11th, 2015, 01:06 PM
#35
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Wantogobitidk
I don't live in Germany but my advice would be that you are going to be far less aware of a racial divide there than in the US.
Last October, we visited shops in North Charleston which were half a mile from the site of the shooting. We were shocked by events but can hope that the video evidence of the swift action of the police in arresting the officer can lead to justice being seen to be done.
I don't live in Germany but my advice would be that you are going to be far less aware of a racial divide there than in the US.
Last October, we visited shops in North Charleston which were half a mile from the site of the shooting. We were shocked by events but can hope that the video evidence of the swift action of the police in arresting the officer can lead to justice being seen to be done.
Apr 11th, 2015, 01:28 PM
#36
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"...there are places in Texas that I would not advise people of Hispanic descent to go into, just because of the rude, stereotypical treatment they may receive..."
I knew I wouldn't get an answer.
"...it's taking away from people just honestly answering my question."
Ha. You've had no direct answers at all. You invited comments about specific incidents of racism against people of color in Germany. What did you get? Lots of comments about certain nitwits and political groups that, well, MAYBE they MIGHT not like someone like you, because after all, the strengthening of the Islamic culture in Germany and the prominence of Islamic terrorism are seen as threats to these groups... HUH? Are you a Muslim immigrant or a terrorist? Didn't you ask about RACISM against visitors of color?
But there's not a SINGLE specific case of violence mentioned here, one where someone of color was clearly discriminated against, not a single story that could be retold, not a single case on the books! And THAT's what I've been pointing out - the complete lack of focus on your question, the complete lack of honesty toward the issue YOU ASKED ABOUT.
I knew I wouldn't get an answer.
"...it's taking away from people just honestly answering my question."
Ha. You've had no direct answers at all. You invited comments about specific incidents of racism against people of color in Germany. What did you get? Lots of comments about certain nitwits and political groups that, well, MAYBE they MIGHT not like someone like you, because after all, the strengthening of the Islamic culture in Germany and the prominence of Islamic terrorism are seen as threats to these groups... HUH? Are you a Muslim immigrant or a terrorist? Didn't you ask about RACISM against visitors of color?
But there's not a SINGLE specific case of violence mentioned here, one where someone of color was clearly discriminated against, not a single story that could be retold, not a single case on the books! And THAT's what I've been pointing out - the complete lack of focus on your question, the complete lack of honesty toward the issue YOU ASKED ABOUT.
Apr 11th, 2015, 01:37 PM
#37
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Fussgaenger
Either you've been drinking or your just plain idiotic. Either way stop embarrassing yourself.
Wantogobitidk
Racism on an individual level is never general but usually about how someone looks as an individual. If that is your picture on your profile then there's absolutely no way that you will stand out in Northern Europe. Book the trip have a great time.
Either you've been drinking or your just plain idiotic. Either way stop embarrassing yourself.
Wantogobitidk
Racism on an individual level is never general but usually about how someone looks as an individual. If that is your picture on your profile then there's absolutely no way that you will stand out in Northern Europe. Book the trip have a great time.
Apr 11th, 2015, 02:02 PM
#38
<<But there's not a SINGLE specific case of violence mentioned here, one where someone of color was clearly discriminated against, not a single story that could be retold, not a single case on the books! And THAT's what I've been pointing out - the complete lack of focus on your question, the complete lack of honesty toward the issue YOU ASKED ABOUT.>>
Fussgaenger - your memory or reading skills are clearly deficient. The OP asked for examples of racism, experienced or witnessed, and sandralist gave him/her just that:
<<Half my family is African American and all of them have on occasion experienced a different standard of treatment because of their skin color while traveling in Europe. And yes, they knew it was because of their race>>
Asked and answered.
Fussgaenger - your memory or reading skills are clearly deficient. The OP asked for examples of racism, experienced or witnessed, and sandralist gave him/her just that:
<<Half my family is African American and all of them have on occasion experienced a different standard of treatment because of their skin color while traveling in Europe. And yes, they knew it was because of their race>>
Asked and answered.
Apr 11th, 2015, 02:30 PM
#39
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ANNHIG: Please... re-read the one and only post that attempts to address the OPs question - the one you just quoted... Sandralist's:
"Half my family is African American and all of them have on occasion experienced a different standard of treatment because of their skin color while traveling in Europe."
OK, annhig. Now, tell us what happened to these relatives.
It's ridiculously vague. No evidence at all that there's some racist place in Germany that people of color should avoid. It doesn't even mention Germany!!!!! Much less a specific time, place, event.
But if Sandralist's comments provide relevant information for deciding about visiting Leipzig or anywhere else, I'm sure you'll be able to explain; as someone who cannot read or remember a thing, I'm sure my comments above are just way off the mark.
"Half my family is African American and all of them have on occasion experienced a different standard of treatment because of their skin color while traveling in Europe."
OK, annhig. Now, tell us what happened to these relatives.
It's ridiculously vague. No evidence at all that there's some racist place in Germany that people of color should avoid. It doesn't even mention Germany!!!!! Much less a specific time, place, event.
But if Sandralist's comments provide relevant information for deciding about visiting Leipzig or anywhere else, I'm sure you'll be able to explain; as someone who cannot read or remember a thing, I'm sure my comments above are just way off the mark.
Apr 11th, 2015, 04:32 PM
#40
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Annhig?
As you pointed out, I, Fussgaenger am a demented illiterate - "deficient skills", right? I'm sure I've been drinking too (I'd never have known that without help from B...Caicos.) Help me out of my haze, either of you. Alls I can figger is that, based on Sandralist's insightful and persuasive case for racism in Europe ("asked and answered")... well, I reckon minorities should probably just avoid Europe altogether. After all, half her relatives were victims in Europe! But I'm sure I'm just thinkin' real wrong, being an idiot an' all...
Please, 'splain it all to me. I promise, I'll read real hard and try even harder to remember.
As you pointed out, I, Fussgaenger am a demented illiterate - "deficient skills", right? I'm sure I've been drinking too (I'd never have known that without help from B...Caicos.) Help me out of my haze, either of you. Alls I can figger is that, based on Sandralist's insightful and persuasive case for racism in Europe ("asked and answered")... well, I reckon minorities should probably just avoid Europe altogether. After all, half her relatives were victims in Europe! But I'm sure I'm just thinkin' real wrong, being an idiot an' all...
Please, 'splain it all to me. I promise, I'll read real hard and try even harder to remember.
