xxxx

Hey Anon: <BR>"Who cares what you did or didn't do in terms on BUSH" ?!?

sandi

Here's why Europeans are not so friendly; 1) Cause we insist on eating at 6.m., even tho the place is not open, staff is still eating, 2) because we insist on using a credit card everywhere we go (an added cost to the proprieter, 3) because we never say "please" or "thank you" (not in their language either, 4) because we all dress and look like slobs, 5) because we want everything to be like home ("where's the damm french fries?") 6) because we holler accross rooms, and talk too loud, speak to everyone, known or unknown (not done in polite society in Europe--they wait for an introduction, and don't assume that everyone wants to acknowledge everyone else, 7) because we complain loudly about service, cleanliness, lack of everything we are used to ("how come the room is so dark, the bathroom so little, so far down the hall, the heat so high (low), the streets so crowded, the food so different",etc.) 8) because we are aggressive in queques, need to be first, want the best for us, and can't get over the fact that lots of people still don't speak English--when they don't understand us, we only repeat it louder in English. And lastly, we have too much money, and throw it around, buying the best seats in the house, the best rooms, best train seats, etc. Cultural we are not (on the whole)and others resent it when we come in to their world and show a complete lack of understanding for the fact that we are now "on their turf"

Robin

Although I see some truth in a lot of these posts, my experience is that Europeans are more friendly than in the past. I have attributed this (rightly or wrongly) to the upside of globalization-- more media exposure to other countries, more travel, etc. While we still have the ability to offend in the many ways Sandi mentions, my impression is that people in Europe are no longer surprised to see it-- just disappointed, I'm sure. And perhaps they are also acquainted with some of the positive attributes that go hand in hand with the obnoxious ones: general friendliness, adventurousness, entrepreneurial spirit, etc. <BR> <BR>Regarding politics, it's hard for me to recall or imagine a situation where hostilities could come out. After all, who is bringing up Star Wars over dinner or in a bar? If it's you the tourist, you deserve what you get, and if it's the stranger in the seat next to you, then find another bar! <BR> <BR>There's a great book called French or Foe?, written for expat businesspeople, but useful to anyone who is curious about cultural differences. It describes many issues where the French and American perspectives are very different-- neither being right or wrong. The one that sticks out in my mind is the author's point that many French people think Americans are pretty silly for going around smiling all the time! He/she (can't remember) states that this is often seen as either sneaky or half-witted, but not the ice-breaker that we mean it to be! Of course, through tourism and business they have come to know that it's usually an innocent mistake, but the bias remains. <BR> <BR>Food for thought

Thyra

This is a very interesting question. I have been travelling to Europe on average every 3 years since 1979 first as a student and up through adult hood. I don't know if a big change will occur with the current, more conservative, government, but I do know that as a student backpacker in the 1980's during the Reagan era, we did get actively engaged in a lot of pub conversations about the policies of our goverment... keep in mind we were students conversing with other students and politics are always discussed, however, though many people didn't like or agree with various policies of our then-government- they certainly didn't seem to hold us personally responsible, or to be more stand-offish or less friendly. During the Clinton years, every time I went to Eruope... people wanted to joke about the "scandal" and seemed to get quite amused by it, thinking we made much ado about nothing. But there seemed to be much less discussion of actual politics.. just soap opera stuff, of course we were no longer students.. and dealing more with adults, which makes a difference... I am interested to see if things will be different when we take our next trip in Spring. <BR>The most common thing, and this has changed little since '79, seems to be a genuine curiosity. Of course Europeans, have concerns and questions, but I've never experienced hostility. Then again, a great deal of how you are treated depends upon how you act. <BR>Once I met a guy in a pub in the UK who insisted LOUDLY to many patrons of the pub that we (meaning the USA) had "saved your asses in WW2" no doubt he was treated with great hostility no matter where he went if he displayed that kind of attitude.

Bil Cliton

I'm sure Europeans respected us alot more when we had a draft dodging, skirt chasing, blackmailing country bumpkin running our country. I guess they can relate to a fascist socialist who destroyed anyone that dared challenge his hegemony.

Capo

Robin, yes, <I>French or Foe?</I> is a great book. <BR> <BR>anon, Re: "By default all Americans are associated with him [Bush] and there's nothing wrong with telling people if you don't agree with him and his policies." <BR> <BR>While I wholeheartedly agree with you on the latter part, do you really think -- with your "associated with by default" comment -- that people in other European countries don't realize that, here in the U.S., not everyone votes for the president that's elected? (or, in the case of Bush, <I>appointed</I> by the Supreme Court.) <BR> <BR>

Jo Anne

If you want to see what Eurpoeans are doing and thinking, tune into the BBC, ITN or Sky new (cable and/or PBS) nightly. Our news stations report nothing about Europe. The stations mentioned report not only European news but US news also. It's interesting to see a story reported her and then to see the European take on the same story. Fasinating stuff. <BR>I started traveling to Europe almost 30 years ago, just got back from France this week and had a great time. Unless you speak every language fluently, you will only run into people who are in a service field who are there to do a job. <BR>Plus, remember, if you are NOT the ugly American, they will love you. Our English friends tell us that their general opinion of Americans is that they are too wordy, too loud, and want to always be noticed. With that in mind, play it low key, be polite, wear clothes that blend in, eat the local foods and smile - you'll have a great time.

margaret

I'm an over45 New Yorker who has a young French university student as a dear friend. He was an exchange student who lived with us for a couple of weeks last year. Well, last month my husband and I vacationed in Paris and took a short trip to Lisieux where we met Sylvan and his parents for the day - they live much further out in Normandy and are daity farmers. Yes, they love to talk politics and agribusiness. Sylvan ventured to say that whenever he sees George W on TV he "wants to kill him" (spoken like a true French student!) His parents were less harsh but do not like American food polictics at all. I can tell you though, persons from Normandy LOVE Americans - they saw the blood spilled on their farms are are aware of the sacrifice made half a century ago.

xxx

Okay, this is where European political attitudes slay me. How can Margaret's friends "LOVE" Americans for assistance in WWII and simultaneously despise us for being equally aggressive today? Whatever one thinks of missile defense or other policies, US military strategy is based on the assumption that we know what's right ans we're gonna do something about it, dammit! Okay, maybe that's pushy and obnoxious, but how is it that the Normandy invasion isn't viewed the same way? It's crass to say so, but it appears that our allies want us to sit quietly and not offend them, UNLESS of course some nasty dictator comes along. I'm just looking for some consistency.

James

To "xxx" above, you are so right! I don't lose a lot of sleep over what the Europeans think of us! They think one thing when they need us to defend them, and another thing the rest of the time. I'm not real thrilled to sit beside a Parisian on a plane and realize he hasn't used any "Sure" that day, so guess he'll just have to put up with my smile and I'll have to put up with his b.o.

anon

Dear xxx - I'm sure there are aspects of your mother that you love and other aspects of her that you abhor - hate - despise. Since when was/is life black and white? Or that the American point of view is always right? What arrogance. From the tone of your post - you sound like a "difficult" person - to say the least. <BR>(One side note regarding missle defence - death is a profitable business just look at the pharmaceuticals, land mines, guns, aircraft fighters, etc. You can be sure Georgie's pals are going to make a bundle from this if it ever gets the go ahead - and I strongly doubt xxx that your pals with Georgie)

Capo

Re: anon's comment "(One side note regarding missle defence - death is a profitable business just look at the pharmaceuticals, land mines, guns, aircraft fighters, etc. You can be sure Georgie's pals are going to make a bundle from this if it ever gets the go ahead...)" <BR> <BR>Absolutely! Death is a VERY big, and highly profitable business. <BR> <BR>Ironically, it was a fellow Republican of Bush's, former president Dwight Eisenhower who famously warned of the "military-industrial complex" in this 1961 speech: <BR> <BR>http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst3...ts/indust.html <BR> <BR>Eisenhower said: "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex."

Gerry

I've always been amazed by the extensive knowledge and political astuteness of the contributors to this forum. So let's talk politics! <BR>I am just your typical American, not to mention fodorite, who constantly monitors the foreign press to keep up with the political mood. Naturaly, I am particulary diligent prior to taking any trip abroad. Having read so many negative comments about the conduct of our politics of late, you can imagine my suprise at the recent election of Silvio Berlusconi and his center-right <BR>government in Italy. As, I'm sure you all well know, Prime Minister Berlusconi is blatently pro-American, pro-Bush and it is said pro the missle defense system. I must confess, I know nothing about this system and very little about American politics as my busy lifestyle leaves little time to learn of these things. I won't even talk about my consternation at the recent conservative victories in England and Germany.... <BR>Of course, every Italian tourist that I have come accross in may daily life here in California has secretly told me that they did not vote for this man and all have expressed great admiration for our own Democratic Governor Gray Davis. I much appreciate this. <BR>All of this makes me wonder what is the exact right thing to say to everyone. I certainly wouldn't want to give a bad impression. I now think that maybe I should try to dress exactly like the locals so that I don't have to deal with this embarrassing issue. <BR> <BR>Gerry <BR> <BR>

ooooo

To everyone of you who is so ashamed at being American why don't you move to your Country of choice. This Country would be better off without you. If you want to know why there is no national pride in the U.S.A. just read whats being written here. I would bet money on the fact that everyone of you who is bashing your own Country haven't the guts to move away and change you way of life.

Capo

To: ooooo <BR> <BR>No national pride in the U.S.A.? Surely you must be joking. <BR> <BR>Your philosophy seems reminiscent of the simplistic "America: Love It Or Leave It" slogan from years past. <BR> <BR>One can appreciate, and be pround of, the country where one lives, without agreeing with every single cultural aspect or governmental policy. <BR> <BR>

JOdy

HEAR HEAR AGAIN FOR CAPO.. nothing sets me off more than Love it or leave it! Guess I am still a child of the 60's. What we don't like we have to stay and atempt to change. Talk about European xenophobia!

Gil

The USA now has its *own* "nasty dictator" as Mr mutiple posts here speaks of. Dumbya has *not* elected. <BR>He lost the majority of the votes and had to be *placed* into office by his cronies in the court when they violated every law they are *supposed* to stand for. Its all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Greg

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Author: Gil ([email protected]) <BR>Date: 6/09/2001, 2:23 am ET <BR> <BR>Message: The USA now has its *own* "nasty dictator" as Mr mutiple posts here speaks of. Dumbya has *not* elected. <BR>He lost the majority of the votes and had to be *placed* into office by his cronies in the court when they violated every law they are *supposed* to stand for. Its all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt; <BR> <BR> <BR>YAAWWWNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <BR> <BR>Sun( Clinton lost! Get over it and get on with your lives. EYAAIIIYAAIII) Vol <BR> <BR>

it's all

Sandi - <BR> <BR>You covered almost every Ugly American cliche in existence. <BR> <BR>Particularly enjoyable was the bit about Americans having 'too much money' and always 'buying the best' seats and rooms. (Funny, the rooms and seats *are* for sale, and the Europeans selling them don't seem to mind taking the money - though i am sure they'll stop before they make 'too much.' In fact, they seem to prefer that the rooms and seats not be left vacant. They go to great lengths to encourage people of all nationalities to buy - even ugly americans. Odd.) <BR> <BR>Americans also must have 'the best,' it seems. (Strange again; very many are on a budget, and Americans stay at places ranging from the best to moderate to downright cheap.) Should the enlightened American traveler then leave 'the best' rooms and seats vacant in case a non-American should come along later and want them? Should they make it a practice to take only budget rooms and seats? Wouldn't that squeeze out the budget European traveler, and wouldn't that be inconsiderate? It's not clear what you would have us do. <BR> <BR>What about all the Europeans with good seats and with rooms at first-class hotels? Are they 'throwing money around' too, or can only Americans throw money around? Do they have 'too much money' as well, or do all Europeans have just the right amount (which, of course, they carry in massive quantities of cash on vacation because they are too thoughtful to use a credit card to pay for hotels and meals)? <BR> <BR>One cliche, which you didn't mention, actually seems to hold up: loud, inconsiderate people are found, as tourists or natives, in every country (though this self-flagellation seems to be strangely american.) <BR> <BR>Regrettably, for all the phony cliches you included, you left out the one about smiling too much.

James

You said that SO WELL! "it's all", couldn't have done better myself. Amen!