Paradiseloast..according to our guide, the ones we saw which were on the ground, etched in the stones you walked on pointed the way to the brothels because it was such a thriving port w/ people speaking many languages. That is also why they had the porno paintings in the brothels so they could just point (literally and figuratively) to what they wanted.

Hey--The story of the battle of Alesia is about to start on the History Channel. It will be horribly gory and terribly sad, but I bet it'll be worth watching.

Well--that wasn't as good as I expected it would be. I thought the car chase "allegory" was just stupid.

SeaUrchin: "(now don't get any ideas from the previous subject! ha)". Darn! I figured with a size 12 foot I was a shoe-in .

smalti: Google said that those 'bulla' neckpouches contained phallus' and also rich boys wore gold phallic rings (on their fingers ).

From what I understand in Homosexual sex as long as you were the dominant partner it was ok but the submissive partner was looked down upon (no pun intended ).
But it was somewhat ok to be the submissive to an older man if you were young and not yet considered a man (I believe at 16 you got your toga and achived manhood). But if you were of good birth (aristocracy) it could be a stigma later in life.

It was ok for a man married or single to have sex with prostitutes, women, men and slaves (male, female, adults, children, they were just considered property).

I think 'Family Values' seemed to be a loyal, obedient and a sexually faithful wife and children.
But for the man everything was cool except adultery which would be with another Citizen's wife (or seducing his children?). Augustus really pushed this when he was Emperor, but he was a player .

Julius Caesar had quite the rep with being a ladies man with the aristocratic married wives in that time period.

Unmanly to love a woman?: The dictator Sulla is offing Romans left and right and mounting Senators heads on a fountain in the Forum when he orders a young Julius Caesar to divorce his wife and marry his relative to politically bond their families.
Caesar flees Rome and goes to Turkey? as a military officer in the court of the Client-King of Rome. It takes the intervention of the Vestal Virgins for Caesar to keep his head, remain married and return to Rome. Now that's Love.
Augustus orders Tiberius to divorce his wife and marry Augustus' nymphomaniac daughter. Tiberius is kind-of a just-in-case heir to the throne. Tiberius doesn't want to divorce his wife but Augustus orders it. He had to love her very much to want to give up being the chance to possibly become Emperor (which he did become) and marry a nymphomaniac!
Antoninus Pius who built that beautiful temple in the Roman Forum dedicated to his only wife Faustina, who died only a couple of years into his 23yr reign.
He never remarried and didn't get the name Pius for nothing .

Context Rome is *the* tour company in Rome without a doubt.
They will do private tours but their group tours are limited to 6 persons. A group that small is just like having a private tour. Regards, Walter

Walter--Thanks for the Context Rome info! Their tours sound like lots of fun. Now I'm all hepped up to go--I have GOT to find a way!

I've read that Greek soldiers often took adolescent apprentices who would tend to housekeeping and act as young, male "wives" while learning soldier craft. It sounds like Rome was not as different as I thought.

No, I wasn't trying to say that simply the pursuit of women was viewed as unmanly, rather that an obviously highly active libido in a man was looked on as was an insistence on fine eating, or luxurious surroundings--as an antithesis to the stern, steely ways the Republic affected to adhere to. Similarly, I thought a very strong attachment to one's wife was viewed as "soft," and hence deplorable.

As Tom Holland writes in "Rubicon," Julius Caesar's own men found his obvious libido "hilarious" and wrote obscene verse about it: "Lock up your wives/our commander is bad news/He may be bald/but he f**ks anything that moves." After their time with him in Gaul, it seems impossible that they could have regarded him as having ANY weakness, yet for them "his sexual prowess spelled effeminacy."

Certainly I don't think that individual Romans were intrinsically all that different from anyone today--I do think that the way each viewed his connection to (and obligations to) his society was much different from anything found now.

sandi, I could be wrong, I often am . I assume these type of official guides just repeat what was told/taught to them by other guides (Mario, the tourists love this one or what was in their test guidebook.
It's just a 9-5 job for them it seems.

Those Phallus paving stone could very well just be an urban legend that was passed on when Pompeii was 1st discovered.

They don't seem to be mentioned in guidebooks (Blue Guide, the regular Pompeii guidebook bought on site and also the on site book called 'Pompeii Prohibited' which deals with general eroticism and the brothels of which there were 25 so far discovered).
Also I don't recall these phallic paving stones mentioned in their audioguide tour.
A google search pulls up no reliable info relating them to brothel directions.
Brothels were very common in Roman Cities, do other Roman cities also have these direction signs? There was a brothel (still undiscovered) very nearby the Roman Forum and there are no signs in the paving stones there.
With all the Pompeii documentarys these stones are never mentioned and everybody wants to know about the sex stuff.

Phallic symbols were *all* over the place in Roman times as a good luck/anti-evil symbol. And that is what they would be seen as.
If I wanted to direct men to a brothel via paving stone symbols, I'd choose something along the lines of the female anatomy, that one picture is worth a thousand words thing .
sandi as I said I could very well be wrong but it just seems too unlikely and not backed-up by any historical proof.
I also mentioned the brothel's porno paintings jokingly as the non-native speakers 'point and pay' option. But very likely they were just adverts for the services rendered and the pointing option was just someone's theory and now a fact. Regards, Walter

The Colosseum episode just started at 9. At 10 pm - Life and Death?

Walter, actually with all the research you've done you are probably right. It sounded plausible though and the only brothel we saw was in the direction of the "pointer". It made a good story I guess.

tomorrow night (Friday night) the Engineering show is repeated at 8pm and then again at midnight

Shh! Shh, everybody! The engineering show's about to start again! History Channel.

I think everyone is watching the Shelter From The Storm concert on all the major TV stations tonight. Donations go to the Red Cross, Salvation Army and AID NOW.

smalti, I just assumed that Caesar's troops were bragging about his sexual conquests .

Another song his troops sung was about the alleged homosexual affair he had with King Nicomedes when he was in his Court.
Caesar was ~20yr and the King was a King after all, so it was assumed that Caesar was the submissive partner.
Whether true or not this allegation was used to taunt him by his politican enemies (including Cicero) for his entire life.

"All the Gauls did Caesar vanquish, Nicomedes vanquished him;
Lo! now Caesar rides in triumph, victor over all the Gauls,
Nicomedes does not triumph, who subdued the conqueror."
Regards, Walter

Hi, Walter!

I've read about Caesar's "scandalous" dealings w/ Nicomedes, but read that C. was compliant for the sake of getting access to Bithynia's navy--w/ Nicomedes' fleet, he joined in the battle at Mytilene, kicked some a**, and wound up w/ the civic crown, which meant that senators would have to rise and salute him if he entered the Circus--and he was still a young man!
As to Caesar's refusing Sulla's command to divorce Cornelia, I was under the impression he was driven not so much by love of her as by loyalty to her family, patrician as his own (her father, Cinna, had already been killed by then), and by an autocratic unwillingness to yield to commands.

BTW, thanks again for the Context Rome info--while watching the engineering show again last night, I kept an eye peeled and saw Darius Arya's commentary!

Was that Robocop as one of the expert scholars? Peter Weller of Syracuse, same guy right?

BettyBoop, I recall Robocop has 1 or 2 classical degrees.

smalti, Ahh...family forum so I'll pass on any jokes about Caesar getting his *Fleet* .

Disobeying Sulla, I've read 3 possible reasons.
Either bullheadedness or thinking of his political future after Sulla's reign or the love for his wife.

With all the massive death, destruction and suffering that went on during the Roman Empire, we romantics have to grab onto a love story wherever we can. They are so few and far between .

He was willing to give up his life, a priesthood, his wife's dowry and his family inheritance rather than divorce his wife.
I just like to think that he did it for love, plus it makes a far better story.

Definitely if you get the chance book a tour with Darius Arya, he's great.
Regards, Walter

BettyBoop, A quick google on Peter Weller pulled this up, 'Masters Degree in Roman and Renaissance Art'. Regards, Walter

Thanks. I'm usually good with faces but names I forget. Figured I get the mystery solved via this forumn. Enjoying American in Paris, then Gigi on TCM. Again thanks.

BettyBoop--Can't tell if my last reply posted (don't ask why).

It's true--Peter "Robocop" Weller teaches a popular course on Rome at Syracuse U. now. The producer of this show called him "RomoCop."

Walter--I, too, will give a wide berth to jokes about Caesar's "back door" access to political prominence!