Any recent stories of dynamic currency conversion?
Jul 11th, 2007, 08:28 AM
#122
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Niblette -
Thanks for the reply. Basically, the rule of thumb is -- get charged in the local currency. Easy to understand. I'll post a reply when I return in August on how it's treated in Italy (i.e., do people clearly offer choice or not).
Ken
Thanks for the reply. Basically, the rule of thumb is -- get charged in the local currency. Easy to understand. I'll post a reply when I return in August on how it's treated in Italy (i.e., do people clearly offer choice or not).
Ken
Jul 11th, 2007, 09:19 AM
#123
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goodnmac, I have a Capital One card, but I don't understand your question. Why do you need to ask someone something, and who are you talking about? There is no need to ask anyone anything about the Capital One or the hotel, if that's what you mean. If a hotel takes a card, they take it. Capital One has no foreign transaction fee, so there's no need to ask anyone about it since you have one. If you are referring to DCC, you do not have to accept a place using it, so it doesn't have anything to do with your card.
Jul 11th, 2007, 09:41 AM
#124
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chinstina..
You're right but people are well not knowledgeable about a lot of things. For example I read all the time on various blogs people complaining about mastercard doing this or visa doing that....mastercard and visa are umbrella organizations that basically just handle the interchange between the merchant's bank and your bank...the fees charged are determined only by your bank. Mastercard and visa impose a 1% fee above the most advantageous currency exchange rate for actually performing the exchange; they take whatever currency risks there are. But once it's done, yuor bank has nothing to do with the currency exchange. Yet almost all American banks now charge an additional 2% fee. Since almost all banks pass along the visa/mc 1% fee, that's a total of 3% above interbank that most people pay to their banks, not to mastercard or visa for foreign exchange. USAA only passes along the 1% fee, Capital One are the good guys in this scenario, they eat the 1% and their charges are converted (and indeed they are) at exactly the interbank rate.
Now as far as dcc, many people are unaware of it. I basically don't ask whenever I give my credit card. If the slips has this scam pulled on me, then I start to react. Most of the time, I get one of the 3 big lies noted above. Whether the clerk understands it or is simply passing along what he or she is told to say is open to question. If the clerk refuses to follow mastercard/visa policy of offering a choice (and the statement you are asked to sign says you were offered the choice) I then ask to see the manager.
Now I must admit I have never been put into a situation where the clerk had any difficulty understanding the language. This scam has been perpetrated on me in Ireland, Scotland, Switzerland and about a month ago in Holland. In every case, despite the fact it took a bit of arguing, I managed to get them to properly carry out the transaction in local currency. I do not know what will happen when this is pulled on me in Spain (I don't speak a word of S[panish) or Italy (nor Italian) when the clerks suddenly, from what I've read, start claiming no speak English. If that is so, I will use the Robespierre technique. But under no circumstances will I pay cash for the transaction or allow them to get away with this. If they refuse to change it, and I've indicated no choice was offered, I would absolutely contest the charge through mastercard/visa and since they would have no signature they I had agreed to this scam, mastercard/visa will have to credit my account.
Unfortunately, too many people do fall for the lies indicated above or don't understand how they are being scammed and this cancer has continued to spread.
You're right but people are well not knowledgeable about a lot of things. For example I read all the time on various blogs people complaining about mastercard doing this or visa doing that....mastercard and visa are umbrella organizations that basically just handle the interchange between the merchant's bank and your bank...the fees charged are determined only by your bank. Mastercard and visa impose a 1% fee above the most advantageous currency exchange rate for actually performing the exchange; they take whatever currency risks there are. But once it's done, yuor bank has nothing to do with the currency exchange. Yet almost all American banks now charge an additional 2% fee. Since almost all banks pass along the visa/mc 1% fee, that's a total of 3% above interbank that most people pay to their banks, not to mastercard or visa for foreign exchange. USAA only passes along the 1% fee, Capital One are the good guys in this scenario, they eat the 1% and their charges are converted (and indeed they are) at exactly the interbank rate.
Now as far as dcc, many people are unaware of it. I basically don't ask whenever I give my credit card. If the slips has this scam pulled on me, then I start to react. Most of the time, I get one of the 3 big lies noted above. Whether the clerk understands it or is simply passing along what he or she is told to say is open to question. If the clerk refuses to follow mastercard/visa policy of offering a choice (and the statement you are asked to sign says you were offered the choice) I then ask to see the manager.
Now I must admit I have never been put into a situation where the clerk had any difficulty understanding the language. This scam has been perpetrated on me in Ireland, Scotland, Switzerland and about a month ago in Holland. In every case, despite the fact it took a bit of arguing, I managed to get them to properly carry out the transaction in local currency. I do not know what will happen when this is pulled on me in Spain (I don't speak a word of S[panish) or Italy (nor Italian) when the clerks suddenly, from what I've read, start claiming no speak English. If that is so, I will use the Robespierre technique. But under no circumstances will I pay cash for the transaction or allow them to get away with this. If they refuse to change it, and I've indicated no choice was offered, I would absolutely contest the charge through mastercard/visa and since they would have no signature they I had agreed to this scam, mastercard/visa will have to credit my account.
Unfortunately, too many people do fall for the lies indicated above or don't understand how they are being scammed and this cancer has continued to spread.
Jul 14th, 2007, 04:41 AM
#125
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We found ddc to be done without asking and always insisted that it be changed. One restaurant was willing to refund the charge if I paid them in cash but insisted they could not charge it in euros -- I do not believe this.
The times the charges went through and were reversed and compared to the actual bank charges -- I found the fees to be 4-5%. They tried to tell me that if I had another charge that day and could prove I would pay less without ddc all I had to do was contact them in Europe and provide the proof and they would adjust it -- NO THANKS -- why would I want to do that work to keep my money?
AMEX charges 2% -- it always has -- on its transactions. I have a VISA issued by a credit union which charges the 1% from VISA so that is what I always use over there.
I live in Atlanta which is owned by Delta so I charge almost everything on the AMEX. However, something recently has given me a reason to really consider the purchase if it is a small company and I might return the item. It turns out that AMEX charges the merchant for the purchase even if the item is returned. I have a client who sells pianos and they had sold one for $9,000 which had a $300 AMEX fee to them. The person changed her mind before it was delivered and they refunded her money. When I was reconciling the bank account, I saw the $9,000 refind -- so they received $8,700 from AMEX but refunded the whole $9,000. I called AMEX and was told that is their policy. They take their fee on the charge but do not refund it if the item is refunded. I know large companies such as Home Depot and Macy's negotiate differently with AMEX and I have another copmany that is part of a franchise that has negotiated rates with AMEX and their fees are refunded to them with a refund to the customer. I checked their reports and found AMEX refunded the fee to them. I looked at a bridal shop and found they were charged the fees and the refund was charged in whole to them. I do not know if VISA does this because their reports are very different -- AMEX lists every charge out but visa/mc bundles all the charges for the day.
But if you purchase items with AMEX at a stand alone place and return the item later, know the store is still out the AMEX fee. It definitely makes me think twice before using it as I do not want to cause small businesses costs if I do not keep the item!
The times the charges went through and were reversed and compared to the actual bank charges -- I found the fees to be 4-5%. They tried to tell me that if I had another charge that day and could prove I would pay less without ddc all I had to do was contact them in Europe and provide the proof and they would adjust it -- NO THANKS -- why would I want to do that work to keep my money?
AMEX charges 2% -- it always has -- on its transactions. I have a VISA issued by a credit union which charges the 1% from VISA so that is what I always use over there.
I live in Atlanta which is owned by Delta so I charge almost everything on the AMEX. However, something recently has given me a reason to really consider the purchase if it is a small company and I might return the item. It turns out that AMEX charges the merchant for the purchase even if the item is returned. I have a client who sells pianos and they had sold one for $9,000 which had a $300 AMEX fee to them. The person changed her mind before it was delivered and they refunded her money. When I was reconciling the bank account, I saw the $9,000 refind -- so they received $8,700 from AMEX but refunded the whole $9,000. I called AMEX and was told that is their policy. They take their fee on the charge but do not refund it if the item is refunded. I know large companies such as Home Depot and Macy's negotiate differently with AMEX and I have another copmany that is part of a franchise that has negotiated rates with AMEX and their fees are refunded to them with a refund to the customer. I checked their reports and found AMEX refunded the fee to them. I looked at a bridal shop and found they were charged the fees and the refund was charged in whole to them. I do not know if VISA does this because their reports are very different -- AMEX lists every charge out but visa/mc bundles all the charges for the day.
But if you purchase items with AMEX at a stand alone place and return the item later, know the store is still out the AMEX fee. It definitely makes me think twice before using it as I do not want to cause small businesses costs if I do not keep the item!
Jul 14th, 2007, 04:56 AM
#126
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Think of how asinine the merchant who said they could only refund the fraudulent charge in USD if you paid cash...I would have contested the charge with visa on the grounds you were not offered the opportunity to pay in local currency.
But you do make the point that the fee charged in dcc transactions, contrary to what some clown told a message board about a year ago, is not competitive. In addition to that, be aware that some near criminal banks such as Citibank will charge its 3% foreign transaction fee anyway (it doesn't matter that you never even paid the 1% visa charge for converting currency) meaning you're out 7 to 8%.
This spreading cancer has to be stopped and if more people simply complained to visa and followed the Robespierre method of writing local currency not offered on the charge slip, perhaps something can be done.
But you do make the point that the fee charged in dcc transactions, contrary to what some clown told a message board about a year ago, is not competitive. In addition to that, be aware that some near criminal banks such as Citibank will charge its 3% foreign transaction fee anyway (it doesn't matter that you never even paid the 1% visa charge for converting currency) meaning you're out 7 to 8%.
This spreading cancer has to be stopped and if more people simply complained to visa and followed the Robespierre method of writing local currency not offered on the charge slip, perhaps something can be done.
Jul 14th, 2007, 12:10 PM
#128
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I have written it twice - once at Waterloo Day's Inn and once at an unbranded internet cafe/souvenir shop a block east of Marble Arch Tube.
In each case, the clerk said, "Uh, just a mo..." and came back with a £ charge slip and a reversal of the $ one.
In each case, the clerk said, "Uh, just a mo..." and came back with a £ charge slip and a reversal of the $ one.
Jul 14th, 2007, 12:54 PM
#129
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I'm confused.
We've always been charged in the country's own currency. Thus, I would guess from this thread that there would be no DCC. However, when I get our credit card statement - it adds a 3% fee.
Please explain.
We've always been charged in the country's own currency. Thus, I would guess from this thread that there would be no DCC. However, when I get our credit card statement - it adds a 3% fee.
Please explain.
Jul 14th, 2007, 01:39 PM
#130
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kenay..
Here is an explanation of dynamic currency conversion, a total scam very prevelent in Ireland, Spain and Italy, taken directly from the visa web site:
Some merchants now offer to convert your bill into your home currency. This is called dynamic currency conversion and means the merchant—and not Visa—is converting the currency. As a consumer you may value knowing the exact price in your home currency at the point of sale but you should also know you may be charged extra for this service by the merchant. Visa requires that you are provided a meaningful choice at the point of sale and you have the right to buy your purchase in the local currency so that you do not incur any additional fees the merchant may assess. Visa also requires merchants offering this service to inform you of the exchange rate including any applicable commission being charged. If you choose DCC for a transaction, you receive the merchant rate, not Visa's rate.
Note it says the merchant is required to give you a meaningful choice...but many merchants lie with some of the untruths I posted above.
The bottom line is NEVER NEVER NEVER sign a charge slip which has both a local currency amount and a US dollar amount if you have a credit card issued in the US (it can be any other country). If the merchant tries to pull any of the lies noted above, insist on seeing the manager and tell them you will not sign the sales slip. If they threaten you and refuse to do the charge properly, write on the charge slip dcc declined no choice offered and see if as Robespierre suggested the merchant comes to their senses.
If not, when you get home, dispute the charge with your bank. State you were not offered the choice of paying in local currency and they will credit the transaction and charge it back to the merchant.
If enough people did this and didn't fall for the lies, this scam can be eradicated.
(Incidentally, there are some banks in the US that charge an additional 3% anyway even if the dcc scam is perpetrated on you.)
Here is an explanation of dynamic currency conversion, a total scam very prevelent in Ireland, Spain and Italy, taken directly from the visa web site:
Some merchants now offer to convert your bill into your home currency. This is called dynamic currency conversion and means the merchant—and not Visa—is converting the currency. As a consumer you may value knowing the exact price in your home currency at the point of sale but you should also know you may be charged extra for this service by the merchant. Visa requires that you are provided a meaningful choice at the point of sale and you have the right to buy your purchase in the local currency so that you do not incur any additional fees the merchant may assess. Visa also requires merchants offering this service to inform you of the exchange rate including any applicable commission being charged. If you choose DCC for a transaction, you receive the merchant rate, not Visa's rate.
Note it says the merchant is required to give you a meaningful choice...but many merchants lie with some of the untruths I posted above.
The bottom line is NEVER NEVER NEVER sign a charge slip which has both a local currency amount and a US dollar amount if you have a credit card issued in the US (it can be any other country). If the merchant tries to pull any of the lies noted above, insist on seeing the manager and tell them you will not sign the sales slip. If they threaten you and refuse to do the charge properly, write on the charge slip dcc declined no choice offered and see if as Robespierre suggested the merchant comes to their senses.
If not, when you get home, dispute the charge with your bank. State you were not offered the choice of paying in local currency and they will credit the transaction and charge it back to the merchant.
If enough people did this and didn't fall for the lies, this scam can be eradicated.
(Incidentally, there are some banks in the US that charge an additional 3% anyway even if the dcc scam is perpetrated on you.)
Jul 14th, 2007, 04:20 PM
#131
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Watch out when using PayPal too. Today I was paying a deposit on a VRBO apartment using my CapitalOne VISA through PayPal, and PayPal's default way was to convert the euros amount to dollars for me at a lousy rate. You have to click to another page on the PayPal site to selection the option of leaving it for your CC company to do the conversion.
Jul 16th, 2007, 08:39 AM
#133
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Hertz at the Edinburgh airport asked if I wanted my bill in USD or GBP? I am glad that I had read the posts here on Fodor's about this practice. I chose the local currency and that was that. I just wonder how many travelers know about this?
Jul 18th, 2007, 05:21 PM
#134
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Thanks for keeping this older thread going---
I just encountered this scam two days ago, when I was offered the "chance" to pay for our airline seating booking (the online link wouldn't take my booking number, so was on phone) in USD rather than in Euros or pounds sterling. With kids arguing in background and packing going on, didn't think critically at all. Didn't know till I got my email that this big ole fee was slapped on (well, it was a bit over 3 percent as I recall), and didn't know till now,hours later that this is what it's called. Will argue with them at the airport in a few hours, and complain to Cap 1....I will ferociously resist this practice, armed with fodorite tactics!!
I just encountered this scam two days ago, when I was offered the "chance" to pay for our airline seating booking (the online link wouldn't take my booking number, so was on phone) in USD rather than in Euros or pounds sterling. With kids arguing in background and packing going on, didn't think critically at all. Didn't know till I got my email that this big ole fee was slapped on (well, it was a bit over 3 percent as I recall), and didn't know till now,hours later that this is what it's called. Will argue with them at the airport in a few hours, and complain to Cap 1....I will ferociously resist this practice, armed with fodorite tactics!!
Aug 13th, 2007, 01:08 PM
#136
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beeze, I don't know what kind of argument you can make, or how you can complain, as they offered you the choice and you willingly said dollars.
For an update on places using this, I just encountered it for the very first time a couple weeks ago -- at an upscale hotel in Montreux, Switzerland (the 4* Suisse Majestic) when checking out. To their credit, they did offer me a choice, and just asked me if I wanted the charge in Swiss francs or USD. When I said francs, of course, they pushed that button on the machine and charged me in francs, so there was no problem nor pressure to use DCC. Unwitting travelers wouldn't have any idea they were being charged an extra fee that way in comparsion to their credit card (presumably, I didn't even ask them what rate they were using, so maybe it's not too bad) as they didn't explain anything or disclose that, of course. I don't know what they'd say if you asked for more details. I didn't encounter DCC anywhere else in Switzerland, and I stayed at two other hotels there.
For an update on places using this, I just encountered it for the very first time a couple weeks ago -- at an upscale hotel in Montreux, Switzerland (the 4* Suisse Majestic) when checking out. To their credit, they did offer me a choice, and just asked me if I wanted the charge in Swiss francs or USD. When I said francs, of course, they pushed that button on the machine and charged me in francs, so there was no problem nor pressure to use DCC. Unwitting travelers wouldn't have any idea they were being charged an extra fee that way in comparsion to their credit card (presumably, I didn't even ask them what rate they were using, so maybe it's not too bad) as they didn't explain anything or disclose that, of course. I don't know what they'd say if you asked for more details. I didn't encounter DCC anywhere else in Switzerland, and I stayed at two other hotels there.
Aug 14th, 2007, 07:54 AM
#138
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After encountering the DCC several times while in Spain, we now only deal in cash with those establishments that insist on using the DCC (El Corte Inglés and the AC Hotels, to name only two), which means we spend a lot less at these establishments, and take more of our business elsewhere.
Aug 14th, 2007, 08:44 AM
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The reverse just happened to me. I just notice an unexplained charge for my car rental, and I just noticed it because it did not appear in its usual format with a separate 1% conversion charge and it was added after I dropped off the car. The rental agency charged my credit card, using DCC, but someone made a mistake. I was charged $74.92 for a bill of £36.78, which according to www.xe.net adds up to a -3.514% conversion charge.
