Another tipping question-- tours and drivers
Apr 9th, 2015, 01:01 PM
#21
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annhig - Rabbies illustrates my point about tours upfront mentioning that they drivers/guides love tips instead of saying no tipping is necessary - they get a good wage from us.
And the opportunistic side of me says that if say on a bus of 30 people everyone gives 5 quid - an American would at least - let's say 100 quid or even half that that means a handsome wage for a tour guide - I cannot believe that any company (just using Rabies as an illustration - I'm sur they are no worse in this regards than most) then would pay top wage for the guide's services (or the guides would be making more than the management!)
This is where I coming from in this point - capiche and do you not think there could be some credence in this?
Cheers
And the opportunistic side of me says that if say on a bus of 30 people everyone gives 5 quid - an American would at least - let's say 100 quid or even half that that means a handsome wage for a tour guide - I cannot believe that any company (just using Rabies as an illustration - I'm sur they are no worse in this regards than most) then would pay top wage for the guide's services (or the guides would be making more than the management!)
This is where I coming from in this point - capiche and do you not think there could be some credence in this?
Cheers
Apr 9th, 2015, 01:28 PM
#22
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Just to add, I took some friends in Rome on a Colosseum Underground tour run by Coopculture (the official tour site - not private) and at the end of the 90 minutes the guide, who was average at best and clearly bored with the whole deal, was having 20 euro notes stuffed into her hand by half of the group. She would have made over 100 euro from this tour - and probably had five more coming up that day.
PLEASE people, don't tip.
Chinacat - just a disclaimer for you. If your private driver has gone out of his way to pick up something for you or stop somewhere special, a tip as a thank you is not uncommon. I've tipped these drivers if they stop at a grocery store and wait while I stock up for my Positano apartment for example. But nothing extravagant. I have given the driver 5 euro as a thank you for being helpful.
PLEASE people, don't tip.
Chinacat - just a disclaimer for you. If your private driver has gone out of his way to pick up something for you or stop somewhere special, a tip as a thank you is not uncommon. I've tipped these drivers if they stop at a grocery store and wait while I stock up for my Positano apartment for example. But nothing extravagant. I have given the driver 5 euro as a thank you for being helpful.
Apr 9th, 2015, 01:38 PM
#23
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Blue - do you think Colosseum Underground by Coopculture allows the guides to keep that tons of money - if so folks must pay the company to be a guide, not the other way around. This is how things work in the real world, which may not always comport to E U laws or local laws, etc.
Here we have an especially low minimum wage of a criminal $2.70/hr for a restaurant wait staffer since they get much more usually than the minimum wage of $ 7.40/hr (also IMO criminally low with no benefits that such folks do get in Europe) for folks not getting tips.
anyways the cynical side of me says that mean be a realistic side of how things work in the real world, here or there - either that or those Colosseum tour guides would be taking home 500 euros a day and probably report to tax man a fraction of that - endemic in Italy I understand.
Even janis, who says above she is a hard liner against giving any tips - as I am - agrees with some for out of the ordinary services like you give for - in her case carrying heavy luggage - so it is wrong to say never tip but only for extraordinary extra time-consuming efforts on behalf of the server.
Q - Were those practically stuffing 20 euro notes at the Colosseo guide European or American - makes a big difference to what we are talking about or did you notice. Thanks for the report on that!
Here we have an especially low minimum wage of a criminal $2.70/hr for a restaurant wait staffer since they get much more usually than the minimum wage of $ 7.40/hr (also IMO criminally low with no benefits that such folks do get in Europe) for folks not getting tips.
anyways the cynical side of me says that mean be a realistic side of how things work in the real world, here or there - either that or those Colosseum tour guides would be taking home 500 euros a day and probably report to tax man a fraction of that - endemic in Italy I understand.
Even janis, who says above she is a hard liner against giving any tips - as I am - agrees with some for out of the ordinary services like you give for - in her case carrying heavy luggage - so it is wrong to say never tip but only for extraordinary extra time-consuming efforts on behalf of the server.
Q - Were those practically stuffing 20 euro notes at the Colosseo guide European or American - makes a big difference to what we are talking about or did you notice. Thanks for the report on that!
Apr 10th, 2015, 06:31 AM
#26
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Yup one thing for sure those not very good guides do not make all that money being stuffed into their belts - not in Italy, not at Rabbies Tours or anywhere. else they would make more than the owners. One thing for sure the Taxman gets nothing in Italy!
Apr 11th, 2015, 01:15 PM
#29
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Pal, In regard to Rabbies Tours and I'm struggling to see why tipping with this particular tour company is relevant here, no one seemed to tip the guide on the tour I took. Most of the passengers were Australians but included a couple from France, a couple from Austria, two Americans ( one a savvy traveler the other not 
) and a young Asian girl.
Easy assessment...Americans tip too often and often too much.
) and a young Asian girl. Easy assessment...Americans tip too often and often too much.
Apr 11th, 2015, 01:41 PM
#30
What always amazes is just how wedded Americans are to their stupid tipping culture. I grew up in the UK, but have lived in the US for ages, and I heave a sigh of relief when I travel to a non-tipping country. Instead so many (not all, thankfully) Americans have a hissy fit at the mere idea of not throwing money around.
Apr 11th, 2015, 02:21 PM
#31
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ht - it was the only tour I knew you and janis have taken and I wondered if Brits tipped - their online tour program rather highlights tipping and seems to encourage it so I wondered (I reprinted that above someone about their guides loving tips') so I wondered if Brits tipped - I wondered why they would put that in a tour brochure if they did not want to encourage tips - right?
thursdaysd above blames tipping always on Americans insisting on it - I think it is also overtly encourage too to have Americans feel they should tip by the rather blatant "yes our guides love tips" in the Rabbies brochure. Right?
thursdaysd above blames tipping always on Americans insisting on it - I think it is also overtly encourage too to have Americans feel they should tip by the rather blatant "yes our guides love tips" in the Rabbies brochure. Right?
May 16th, 2015, 12:00 AM
#33
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Just popping in as I posted advice on the Myanmar forum on tipping and was linked here
Some thoughts from on what is expected in some countries
Just a few comparisons of tipping standards from a recently published survey:-
RESTAURANTS
Nothing-Denmark,France,Japan,Singapore,Korea
Change-Australia,most of Europe,India,Thailand,Vietnam,Myanmar
10%-Caribbean,South America,UK,Netherlands
15%-US & Canada.
HOTEL MAIDS & PORTERS
Nothing-Denmark,Japan,Korea
50c-India,Australasia,Thailand,Vietnam,Turkey,China,S. America
$1.50US,Canada,UK,Dubai,Caribbean,France,Germany,S ingapore,US
In many emerging counties over tipping is distorting the labour market with doctors and teachers becoming tour guides so to double or triple their earnings.
posts from 15th May here
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...in-myanmar.cfm
SS
Some thoughts from on what is expected in some countries
Just a few comparisons of tipping standards from a recently published survey:-
RESTAURANTS
Nothing-Denmark,France,Japan,Singapore,Korea
Change-Australia,most of Europe,India,Thailand,Vietnam,Myanmar
10%-Caribbean,South America,UK,Netherlands
15%-US & Canada.
HOTEL MAIDS & PORTERS
Nothing-Denmark,Japan,Korea
50c-India,Australasia,Thailand,Vietnam,Turkey,China,S. America
$1.50US,Canada,UK,Dubai,Caribbean,France,Germany,S ingapore,US
In many emerging counties over tipping is distorting the labour market with doctors and teachers becoming tour guides so to double or triple their earnings.
posts from 15th May here
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...in-myanmar.cfm
SS
May 16th, 2015, 12:38 AM
#34
hmmm
I'm an American and still haven't got used to tipping ... when I was a kid growing up 10% was the standard tip in restaurants (only). Nowadays 15% is considered a cheapskate here ... many tip 18% or 20%. And if its a self-serve place w/ baristas (like Starbucks or other coffee shops) people tip there too (though not at McDonalds). And while it used to be one tipped only some things, now it seems tips are expected everywhere here - doormen, housekeepers, barbers, almost all service industry.
...but ...
Most people in the service industry get paid very little (in many cases $7 or $8 per hour) ... certainly not enough to live on (most need 2 or more jobs to support themselves or a small family) ... and most get no pay for missing work when they are sick (hence they work even when they are sick) ... and most get no holiday pay ...
So to salve our consciences we all tip. It's a hard habit to break when we're elsewhere in the world.
I'm an American and still haven't got used to tipping ... when I was a kid growing up 10% was the standard tip in restaurants (only). Nowadays 15% is considered a cheapskate here ... many tip 18% or 20%. And if its a self-serve place w/ baristas (like Starbucks or other coffee shops) people tip there too (though not at McDonalds). And while it used to be one tipped only some things, now it seems tips are expected everywhere here - doormen, housekeepers, barbers, almost all service industry.
...but ...
Most people in the service industry get paid very little (in many cases $7 or $8 per hour) ... certainly not enough to live on (most need 2 or more jobs to support themselves or a small family) ... and most get no pay for missing work when they are sick (hence they work even when they are sick) ... and most get no holiday pay ...
So to salve our consciences we all tip. It's a hard habit to break when we're elsewhere in the world.
May 16th, 2015, 01:32 AM
#35
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<<So to salve our consciences we all tip. It's a hard habit to break when we're elsewhere in the world>>
Elbegwa - you need to leave your USA habits at home. It is sadly becoming an expectation that North Americans (and Australians, English, Irish etc.) will tip because Americans bring their cultural norms to Europe.
I understand the urge to tip because you do it at home but PLEASE you are setting up difficulties for every other English speaking nation that does not tip as a cultural norm, and you are also creating issues within Italy - even with its local people - who resent the tipping culture that is imposed on their home cities/towns/restaurants.
Elbegwa - you need to leave your USA habits at home. It is sadly becoming an expectation that North Americans (and Australians, English, Irish etc.) will tip because Americans bring their cultural norms to Europe.
I understand the urge to tip because you do it at home but PLEASE you are setting up difficulties for every other English speaking nation that does not tip as a cultural norm, and you are also creating issues within Italy - even with its local people - who resent the tipping culture that is imposed on their home cities/towns/restaurants.
May 16th, 2015, 06:26 AM
#36
In the US people classified as tipped workers get much less than the minimum wage - I think $2:15 an hour. Therefore they need their tips to live on - and will be taxed as if they have been tipped even if they haven't. This is a terrible system, under which the customer, not the employer, is responsible for the staff's wages, and which (as far as I know) is unique to the US. Therefore, what is proper WRT to tipping in the US is NOT relevant elsewhere in the world. Please leave your tipping habits at home.
May 16th, 2015, 08:01 AM
#38
Yes ... certainly ... spread the word amongst Americans about tipping when elsewhere in the world.
We tend to export the worst parts of the American ethos, and one of the very worst is how we pay and treat the lowest paid workers.
And yes, as Thursdaysd points out, many aren't even paid minimum wages. In many (not all) states, supposed (estimated) tips count towards total income when determining whether they are being paid minimum wages. And in many (not all) states there are no requirements for minimum wages (or very reduced requirements for minimum wages) for part time employees, so many in the service industry are hired as part time workers (30 hours or so per week).
And all of this occurs when almost no health care is available to those in service industries, even with Obamacare.
And national regulations lag far behind the weak regulations in many (most?) states.
Many Americans believe the US is exceptional compared to the rest of the world. I heartily agree with them. The US is truly exceptional - but often that means worse, not better.
We tend to export the worst parts of the American ethos, and one of the very worst is how we pay and treat the lowest paid workers.
And yes, as Thursdaysd points out, many aren't even paid minimum wages. In many (not all) states, supposed (estimated) tips count towards total income when determining whether they are being paid minimum wages. And in many (not all) states there are no requirements for minimum wages (or very reduced requirements for minimum wages) for part time employees, so many in the service industry are hired as part time workers (30 hours or so per week).
And all of this occurs when almost no health care is available to those in service industries, even with Obamacare.
And national regulations lag far behind the weak regulations in many (most?) states.
Many Americans believe the US is exceptional compared to the rest of the world. I heartily agree with them. The US is truly exceptional - but often that means worse, not better.
May 18th, 2015, 04:37 AM
#40
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why tip 4 euros to someone who is a professional getting good wages - living wages and likely in France to have full benefits from their job - the French I know would say you're throwing your money away.
do you tip cashiers in Sainsbury's if they are really pleasant or a butcher who gives you great service?
I can see rounding to the nearest euro but French folks I know even frown on that.
do you tip cashiers in Sainsbury's if they are really pleasant or a butcher who gives you great service?
I can see rounding to the nearest euro but French folks I know even frown on that.
