Thanks Carlux, that was very helpful. I'm sorry to hear that you have lost business because of the cost of trying to pay, but, I have to say that I have done that when choosing between two apartments. I have had a business where we accepted CC and had to pay 7% because we were so small, but it was the cost of doing business and we tried to balance the cost with the price. When we accepted CC about 90% of people use cc or debit so we had to increase our prices.

I hadn't thought about the card being eaten...hummm?...although it has never ever happened to me.

I find opening a new account very easy, we have free checking and it should take 10 mins, you would have the atm cards that day or the next.

Traveling to Europe is getting so expensive for us we have to figure out ways to still do it and not break the bank. We now stay put in only one place for the 2-3 weeks. We eat in more often than not. But we still go.

This would save me way more than $35. It would save me that at least twice, the exchange rate would be another big hit, and the finial balance for 2-3 weeks is large and a hassle to get the first day(s) of vacation.

Making it easy for the landlord is the key here isn't it? We would just tell them that we are sending an atm card that they could go to the bank with and withdraw the funds from, then, please keep the card in a safe place for further payments and please return it to me when I am staying at your apartment. I don't think this would be anymore work for them and they would also avoid all the nasty charges. I would have to find someone who is Internet savvy, but, if I have found them searching on line and communicated with them through emails I think this should be a given.

I am going to rent another apartment in Grimaud next summer so I am thinking ahead as she doesn't take cc and doesn't speak English. We didn't rent it this year for these reasons and we wanted to see it and exactly where it was. It was gorgeous and I can't wait to stay there next year. If I can work this out it would probably be equal to two nights stay, which is worth working out.

I wasn't aware of possible bank fees for a bankcheck in euro (which my bank will make out), if it's some bank in another country or something. That is actually kind of expensive also, in the US, at least at my bank -- they do charge only $10 to make out a check in euro, but they have an exchange rate which marks it up 6.5% (I just checked, so I know the fees).

Those travellers check bankcards are very expensive, much more than an ATM card. They are probably the most expensive way to do this. They charge fees to get it, fees to use it, fees to close it out, on top of a bad exchange rate.

I think it is rare than an ATM machine "eats" a card, but is possible. Usually it's if they think there is fraud, or maybe if someone tries to use it unsuccessfully 3 times or more or something (Putting in wrong PIN). Checking a balance would be meaningless, anyway -- any balance in there could be gone in the next hour, that wouldn't prove anything.

I can understand why someone wouldn't trust Paypal, I'm sort of leery of them myself, although I use them. They are a very prime target of various kinds of crooks, from hackers to phishers, I think. I would just want to avoid it, if possible, myself. Besides, doesn't that cost an owner the same as a credit card, or more? There isn't any company that has proven itself that trustworthy regarding privacy and security issues, as far as I'm concerned, with databases.

Setting up a bank account would still involve time at the bank, traveling to/from, etc., even if it goes easily when there. Now some people don't value their time at all, but that alone would be worth more than $35 to me. It would alst mean monitoring statements every month, to make sure it was okay. Also, some banks won't allow you to have an account that just sits there with no activity for a long time for free.

So I think there are many drawbacks to this idea for many people, but if the time and trouble to do that and monitor it, etc., isn't a cost to you in a way that you measure, I do think it is a clever idea. However, I am not sure foreigners who cannot speak English are the ones best suited for this idea, as just explaining the whole thing could be difficult.

Susanna, I love how you're looking for alternatives in this situation and hope you'll keep us posted on how it works out for you.

Regarding giving the owners an ATM card which they return to you: I assume that an ATM card is also a debit card. If they have the card number and the three digit security code on the back, can they then order up things online even though they no longer have the physical card? They'd be taking the chance that the account has no funds, but what if they happen to hit it on the correct date -- when you have planned for a different owner to use that card?

It seems that you'd have to get a replacement card when your business with that owner is finished.

It seems to me that private citizens are totally authorized to deposit travellers' cheques in euros on their private accounts. A certain number of 100€ cheques should cover most needs -- sent by registered mail, of course.

TC's are certainly cheaper to purchase than bank transfer fees.

Ok, some new information .

Trophy: your comment was very disturbing, I hadn't thought about that.

I was at the bank today and asked how one would avoid having another person write down the card # and three didgit pin on the back and then be able to charge on the card at a later date. The way around this is to only have the bank issue an atm card, not a debit card. I really had no idea that there even was a card that you could only use in an atm machine.

The bank also informed me I could have as many free checking accounts as I wanted, which was nice to hear. I have two already so didn't know if there was a limit. I do have a business and do go to the bank once a week , I check on the accounts on line a few times during the week so opening and checking on a new account won't be any problem for me.

Thank you all so much for the great feedback, you brought up some very interesting issues.

Just to show you the kind of message I received from "Paypal" last night:

Dear Customer,

It has come to our attention that your PayPal® account information needs to be updated as part of our continuing commitment to protect your account and to reduce the instance of fraud on our website. If you could please take 5-10 minutes out of your online experience and update your personal records you will not run into any future problems with the online service.

However, failure to update your records will result in account suspension. Please update your records before August 20, 2008.

Once you have updated your account records, your PayPal® account activity will not be interrupted and will continue as normal.

Click here to update your PayPal account information (I do not have any account!)

Moreover I don't want to reflect their commission on my rates. My own charges are increasing all the time already.
I think Susan has a good idea if you book a long time in advance and are sure that the dollar will be weaker at the time of your stay. You pay early and you win on the exchange rate and on the commissions.

When I set up my apartment for rental,(it's in the French Alps) I also set up Paypal accounts so that renters could pay me using that method.Regulars who are verified use echeck, which reduces the fees. Everyone does so except the French,who can easily pay me by bank transfer. Credit card company fees are too expensive for my small turnover, although I have now managed to secure lower merchant fees for Paypal which kicks in during the busy months. Not sure the bank card method suggested would be suitable for me though. My current arrangement is linked to my French bank account, although I live in the UK, so the money would be in the wrong place.

As a rental owner in France I might be open to the ATM idea, but I think many would not be. They would think it is some sort of trick.

It is not such a clear-cut solution because you have to consider you would lose money on each withdrawal because you would be using the bank's exchange rate from dollars to euros. This is always going to be different to the 'real' exchange rate and weighted in the bank's favour.

(Regarding that PayPal email quoted above, this is not from PayPal, it is a scam. If you click on the link in the email it will take you to a site that looks exactly like PayPal and invite you to type in your log-in details. If you get an email from PayPal and think it might be genuine, don't click on a link in the email, always go to PayPal the usual way.)

Welcome on board Chamoissiere and TheLuberon. It is a rush of new members from France !
I know this paypal email is a scam, I just wanted to show it is one of the reasons I don't want to take Paypal.

I'm not sure owners would think it is a trick, they would just have to go to their cashpoint to cash it.

As to Paypal. I have been using it for years. As an online ESL teacher, it was the way I used to accept payment. 3-4% cost is simply a cost of business, which could easily be passed on to the consumer.

Yes, you get the emails every now and then, but I also get them from "real" banks, like BOA and Wachovia. I do not even have an account at Wachovia, so obviously these emails are just sent enmass.

I often try to get foreign small business owners to look into using Paypal, as it would greatly enhance their customer service and reduce customer wariness.

dave

There is absolutely no risk in the Paypal message as long as you don't click on it and give out your personal information. It has nothing to do with Paypal specifically. As mentioned above, I also get these types of emails from legitimate banks. That does not keep me from banking at a multinational bank, so why would it keep me from using Paypal?

I agree the fees for accepting credit cards are part of the cost of doing business. Either roll it into the rental charges, or absorb it. I think the increase in business would make up for it.

If owners don't want to pay the 4%, why not give the renters the option? Pay by wire transfer or by Paypal? If they pay by paypal, it will cost them 4% more. Or is this not legal? Or, you also have the option of not accepting credit cards through Paypal and only accepting checking account transfers, right?

I have a friend who is renting an Italian villa in October. He has to wire the balance of the payment and it's taken over a week to get all the details straightened out with his bank and get the money to the villa owners.

<i>It is not such a clear-cut solution because you have to consider you would lose money on each withdrawal because you would be using the bank's exchange rate from dollars to euros.</i>

I assume you're looking at this from the landlord's perspective. If so, I don't think your view is correct. Let's say the agreed price was &euro;100. I would deposit $200 over here and the landlord would withdraw &euro;100 in Europe. All the fees and foreign exchange markup would come out of my US funds, and not the merchant's European funds. Shopping for the best terms (conversion rate, withdrawal fee, whatever) would be my responsibility. All the merchant knows is that when s/he presses the &euro;100 button, five crisp 20s come out of the slot.

I still think it's a cracking idea.

&gt;I still think it's a cracking idea.&lt;
What does that mean quot;&gt;?

A great idea.

Merci Carlux I wanted to be sure

I still think it's a cracking idea...I like that!

Rob: you understand perfectly what I am saying and trying to do.

I don't really understand why the landlords would think that I am trying to trick them, like RP said, they would just put the card in the atm and viola, crisp euros, how easy is that?

Ciao coco

I like Robespierre's idea of the prepaid Credit card and mail it over.

&quot;&quot;Author: Robespierre
Date: 08/04/2008, 01:33 pm
Has anyone used one of those prepaid Visa/MC cards I see on the checkout counter at Walgreen's?If their fee structure isn't exorbitant, and if they're not rejected by ATMs in Europe, ...&quot;

I'm currently going through this with the apartment I have rented in Paris.

The son-in-law who writes in English wanted me to use IBAN. I have never heard of IBAN. I told him I would wire the deposit to his MIL's bank, and that I need
Bank account and routing number, bank name and address,Mother in Laws name and address.

And then I have to pay in cash on arrival.

I'm going to take a look at one of those pre-paid credit cards and see what their exchange rate is for turning into Euros.

The pre-filled Travellers Check Cards sound good too, although I've never heard of them. I'm wondering if they're triple A, in which case their charges and exchange rates are expensive.

But going to check both out,
first by google

coco -

It means <i>formidable!

adj.</i>

Excellent; great: <i>had a cracking time at the dance.</i>

The greendotonline.com prepaid card charges $5 to start, $5 a month to maintain, and 3% foreign exchange markup. Nothing is mentioned regarding ATM fees (I assume it's covered).

It appears that there <u>may</u> be fees for adding funds to your account, but that these can be avoided.

I am a novice at renting in Europe - I had only done it two times in Italy - and decided that in the future I would prefer to deal with people who take my credit card for a variety of reasons.

I leave in about 6 weeks for a 5 week trip with dd and did just that - only used rental agencies that accepted my cc. I might be paying a little more (did not really seem like it) but it is far easier for me to take care of and I like the &quot;reward/miles&quot; and I like that I have the security of dealing with my Amex or Citi bank if there is an issue.