Amsterdam to Mosel and Rhine

Old Nov 13th, 2016, 06:08 PM
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Amsterdam to Mosel and Rhine

Hi Fodorites,

I'm roughing out my itinerary and of course the list of questions is growing accordingly.

Plans for Amsterdam:

Arrival Day: walk around, canal boat tour weather permitting
Day2: Kinderdijk, 1st Saturday of May, open Van Gogh museum, more strolling, perhaps a church or two, maybe a small special interest museum,
Day 3: Flower Market, Rijksmusuem
Day 4: Haarlem
Day 5: Keukenhof
Day 6: Pick up car, Otterlo, Kroeller Mueller Museum
Day 7: Cochem or Beilstein, Berg Elz on the way
Day 8: Wineries, short river cruise
Day 9: ?
Day 10: over to Rhine River......

I have from 5/5 to 5/20. In and out of Amsterdam using FF miles.
Where would be a good place to pick up my rental car heading to Otterlo?
Nothing booked yet except for hotel in Amsterdam, 6 nts. Should I add another night to allow more daytrips to Delft, other countryside towns? Are others that different from Haarlem? I know every town has it's charm and unique sights.

Mosel and Rhine part of the trip is only a rough idea at this point. I started to plan this years ago, but Sicily got obsessed with Siicly....now I'm back to #1 bucket list - Van Gogh!

Thanks for your suggestions.
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Old Nov 13th, 2016, 08:15 PM
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I know just how you feel about Sicily - we had that burning feeling, too, and decided to split one Europe trip between ten days in France and ten days in Sicily. Why not? EasyJet flies from AMS to Catania, dirt cheap, and even if it had been better to book a flight home from Sicily rather than going back to AMS - not the end of the world.

But if Mosel and Rhine are your preference, you can think of it in two ways: One - get a car and gallivant through the countryside - til you get to Cologne and the Rhine. But take your time, a few days, otherwise - you're better off taking the train, and then maybe a boat - see https://www.k-d.com/en
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Old Nov 13th, 2016, 08:16 PM
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By the way - you don't need a car for the K-M museum - see http://krollermuller.nl/en/address-and-route
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Old Nov 13th, 2016, 11:24 PM
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You can't really do Kinderdijk and everything else you have planned on Day 2. Kinderdijk is a long way from Amsterdam and not that easy a journey by public transport. You would be better combining it with Delft say. You could easily combine Keukenhof and Haarlem into a single day.

If you really are interested in Van Gogh, the man, not just his paintings, consider a visit to Nuenen as well. http://www.vangoghvillagenuenen.nl/english.aspx


You are picking up a rental car and then going to Germany with it. Are you then returning it it the Netherlands? A one way drop off fee will be huge.
You could get public transport to Kroller Muller then continue by train into Germany and pick u a car there.
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Old Nov 14th, 2016, 03:31 AM
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Michael,

Sorry I wasnt clear. I already visited Sicily for about 3.5 weeks three years ago! Now Im back to Amsterdam and parts of Germany for this trip.

Hetismij2

Again sorry I goofed. The Van Gogh was supossed to be on its own day with other things in the city. I put in Kinderdijk because I happen to be there when the windmills will be running. Wondering if I should go out there rather than the ZS with museums?

Good to know Delft and Keukenhof could be combined.

Rome to Rio looked like car was best for the KM. since Im doing a loop to fly back out of Amsterdam, Im looking at options for that. Train looks easiest to return from Germany, but I havent finished itinerary yet. Could retun the car back in NE if there is a big drop off fee.
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Old Nov 14th, 2016, 04:29 AM
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KM by train is dead easy, within the park there used to be free white bicycles, are they still there?
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Old Nov 14th, 2016, 05:34 AM
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Bare in mind in your planning for May that on May 4th we have our Remeberance day - actually evening, with ceremonies throughout the country but the main one being on the Dam in Amsterdam, with two minutes silence observed at 8pm.
May 5th is Liberation Day, but most people work that day as normal. It is mainly public employees aho have that day off. There are nonetheless events and concerts around the country to mark it.

Personally I prefer Kinderdijk to Zaanse Schans, which is increasingly overrun with people, but the latter is an easier journey by public transport, and still enjoyable. Aim to get there early. https://www.dezaanseschans.nl/plan-your-visit/?lang=en

If you are returning to NL for your flight home then by all means get a car and go to Hoge Veluwe. You can park outside the park for €3, or drive in and pay €6.50. There are free white bikes available at the entrance and in the park to get around on. It is worth booking your ticket for K-M online. https://www.hogeveluwe.nl/en/discover-the-park
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Old Nov 14th, 2016, 06:01 AM
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"Train looks easiest to return from Germany..."

Yes. It's easy for A'dam - Germany too. And cheap. Maybe €19 to Cochem for a pre-purchased saver fare from the DB site (buy 91 days in advance for the best possible price. Yours looks like a Rick-Steves-inspired trip so let's assume you stay in Bacharach on the Rhine and return to A'dam from there. Same price, €19.

Cochem to Burg Eltz: 17 min. train ride to Moselkern (cheap local ticket) + a walk through the woods to the castle:

http://www.bensbauernhof.com/burgeltzfrommoselkern.html

Cochem to Beilstein and back - this is your short River Cruise.

Cochem over to Bacharach (or other Rhine town) by train: VRM mini-group day pass for two, €22:

http://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets-and...eisure-ticket/

So I don't get the car decision exactly.
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Old Nov 14th, 2016, 04:57 PM
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One thing about Kinderdijk: the entire array of mills is still functional, and is even used to pump out water if conditions warrant it.

So, if you get to Kinderdijk, there are usually mills working. But even on National Mills Day (I think you're referring to that) not all mills at Kinderdijk will be turning, but you will be able to visit more than usual.

I cycle a lot in the area, and Kinderdijk is a good coffee stop for me, so I visit it a lot, and to me the magic of the place is not the mills per se, but the entire layout of the place: what you're looking at is a huge waterpump.

Getting to Kinderdijk is fairly easy from Rotterdam, and I would suggest to combine Rotterdam, Kinderdijk and Dordrecht, or Rotterdam, Kinderdijk and Delft.

For Kinderdijk take the fast ferry (waterbus) from the Erasmusbridge stop. During the summer months there is a direct service, from october - april you'll have to change to the local ferry at Ridderkerk: that ferry will wait for the waterbus to arrive to the stop.
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Old Nov 14th, 2016, 04:58 PM
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Oh also, the Flower Market is nothing. Not worth the detour, honest.
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Old Nov 18th, 2016, 06:28 AM
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Thanks every one for the very helpful input!

I think I can do either windmill site, but comments on train vs. car have me considering a change.

Perhaps I could stay 4 nights in A'dam and do all the city things. Then move out to Haarlem and stay there another 2 or 3 nights to visit Kinderjik, Delft, Keukenhof. I could do this part either with a car or not whichever is easier.

Then head to Kroller Muller by car and continue on to the Mosel River Valley with the car. Looking at Rome to Rio is looks like traveling from Amsterdam by train is a 6 hour journey, but by car it's just 3 hours. If I stay in the city and visit KM by train, is there a faster train available down to maybe Koblenz?

The other consideration with the car is scenery. Is it more scenic and enjoyable to drive to the various spots on the Mosel and Rhine, or just as good by train? Either way I do plan some time for a cruise of some sort on the rivers.

This part of the trip is a little bit R. Steves. I have found some of his practical advice for first timers helpful on past trips and have visited a couple of his unique small town suggestions too. Really enjoyed those two places and Orvieto remains one of my favorite places in Italy since we visited back in 2000.

Definitely not locked into any of these towns. If you have better suggestions, I'm open to changes.

I like a mix of everything. Architecture, history, wine, art, some churches, scenery, photography.. Probably will have had enough museum time in A'dam unless there is something very unique in the river valleys. Prefer to wine taste at the vineyards. Is this something easily arranged in Germany, or not? It seems there are plenty of tasting rooms in the towns so could settle for that if I go for the public trans option. Dont plan to do too mich tasting, as big reds are my definite preference.

Not afraid to drive. Im a good manual driver and have driven in France, Italy And most recently Sicily.

Your suggestions are welcome amd very much appreciated.
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Old Nov 18th, 2016, 06:46 AM
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If you have a car you could easily spend a day visiting the volcanic lakes in the Eiffel above the Mosel, or maybe visit the Manderscheid castles. There are also Roman ruins in the area.
Much as I like the Mosel Valley I enjoy the Eiffel more, away from the crowds.


You can go from Amsterdam centraal to Koblenz via Cologne by train in under 4 hours. It is not a lot quicker from Arnhem, and you have to get there from KM.
I like the freedom a car gives.
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Old Nov 18th, 2016, 07:27 AM
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"Then head to Kroller Muller by car and continue on to the Mosel River Valley with the car. Looking at Rome to Rio is looks like traveling from Amsterdam by train is a 6 hour journey, but by car it's just 3 hours."

Via Michelin shows 4 hours+ to Cochem by car.

"The other consideration with the car is scenery. Is it more scenic and enjoyable to drive to the various spots on the Mosel and Rhine, or just as good by train?"

The car route to Cochem in 4+ hours doesn't follow the Rhine or the Mosel Rivers. Add time for that if your plan is to sightsee along the rivers on the way.

While the Rhine scenery SOUTH of Koblenz is best, the scenery between Bonn and Koblenz is nice in spots. On the way to Cochem the train follows the river bank nearly the whole way to Koblenz; your connecting train to Cochem follows the river the entire way when it leaves Koblenz - and of course both of you can take in all the scenery the whole way from the train window - a driver must pay more attention to the asphalt and traffic.

Mosel River scene on the way from Koblenz to Cochem: http://www.zughalt.de/wp-content/upl...10/DB11321.jpg

"If I stay in the city and visit KM by train, is there a faster train available down to maybe Koblenz?"

It's about 2.6 hours by train from Arnhem to Koblenz with the better connections. Maybe 3.5+ hours to Cochem. Cochem is worth the extra travel time over Koblenz. Koblenz is a stop where you change trains on your train route to Cochem. If you have time you can leave bags in a Koblenz station locker and see the town if you're interested. But you'll want to arrive in Cochem before dark to enjoy the scenery on the way.
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Old Nov 18th, 2016, 11:32 AM
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You could get public transport to Kroller Muller then continue by train into Germany and pick u a car there.>

Great advice - all your other places can be reached by public transportation- you may even want to substitute Zaanse Schanse windmills for Kinderdijk or do a whole day getting there and back-neat way to go is by boat from Rotterdam and spend some time in Rotterdam too - a very interesting cityIME.

www.ns.nl for info on Dutch trains- other good sights www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com.

I took a train to Ede-Winnegen (sp?) and then bus to Kroller Muller and bus to Arnhem so you could do that before heading to Germany to pick up your vehicle. Or take the train to Cochem and pick up car the next day.

And for your limited plans on Mosel/Rhine public transit will do just well- train Cochem to Moselkern for shuittles to Burg Eltz (or a lovely stroll up thru forests)

buses ply the Mosel road - there is a winery right in Cochem (Hieronimi)- take a boat on the Rhine (www.k-d.com).
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Old Nov 18th, 2016, 12:10 PM
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For Kinderdijk, Delft and even Lisse, Rotterdam is a better base.

Ede-Wageningen.
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Old Nov 19th, 2016, 06:25 AM
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Menachem,

I had not considered Rotterdam, but I will look into it. Its a much larger city, correct? I was thinking it might be nice to stay in one of the smaller places like Haarlem before heading into Amsterdam for the big city activities.

I had originally thought to pick up a car at one of the cities along the way to the Mosel and return it in Germany. If public trans to KM is really that easy, then I may stick to that plan.

Hetismji, i will look into the Eiffel. This is the type of recommendation Im looking for. I have not visited either country before and am not at all familiar with places other than those in guidebooks, which of course will be the most crowded. I am hoping that traveling in May the crowds will be less.

I do like the freedom of a car. I like public trans in Europe, but I also dont like always having to be somewhere at a. Certain time to catch a bus and worrying about missing the last one back!

I will spend some time on the sites above for train and bus schedules. The first info on Rome to Rio said there were two trains changes to get to Cochem. That doesnt sound like a lot of fun to me.

Fussengaeger, I travel solo so I would be the only driver. Doesnt bother me in the least. Ive done very well on my other trips and still manager to sneak a peek at the scenery. I know the car route down to Cochem would involve the autobahn and would be pretty much straight driving. I was mainly wondering about driving vs car in the Cochem area.

Thans for the help. I have some more reading to do!
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Old Nov 19th, 2016, 08:44 AM
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"I do like the freedom of a car. I like public trans in Europe, but I also dont like always having to be somewhere at a. Certain time to catch a bus and worrying about missing the last one back!"

I prefer to avoid time-consuming bus connections as well. But I thought we were talking about TRAINS. Train schedules are extraordinarily easy to access these days. Any DB ticket machine in Germany gives you the schedule for that station - it's also posted. Or use a smart phone. Not much to worry about... I can't imagine missing the last train of the night unless I were stone-cold snockered. (And in that case, I absolutely do not want to be in possession of a rental car!)

"I was mainly wondering about driving vs car in the Cochem area."

Fortunately, in Germany trains run pretty late almost everywhere, even in small towns. For example the last train out of Cochem for Trier is 23:56 - to Koblenz at 23:19.

Simply put, I would not set expectations for German trains by my previous experiences with European buses (or trains) more generally. Germany's level of service is far better than average.

Because most sights and towns of interest in the Rhine/Mosel region are in the river valleys, short-term visitors using the trains have an easy time of it. See the 3 lines out of Koblenz at the bottom of this map? The left one follows the Mosel station by station. The two on the right follow the left and right banks of the Rhine. All 3 lines are scenic and have hourly or better local train service. A single VRM day pass (€18.80) covers you for unlimited travel all day long within the area shown. It also covers the ferry between St. Goar and St. Goarshausen if you wish to cross the river (and any bus travel in the area as well.)

http://www.vrminfo.de/fileadmin/data...zplan_2016.pdf
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Old Nov 20th, 2016, 05:49 AM
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Fussegaeger

Thanks for the input. I do realize that my on line thinking has not been clear to you. I do realize that trains in Europe, especially Germany, run on time. Since I have not checked out the schedules in detail yet, I was not expecting frequent train service along the Mosel. I was seeing two connections necessary to get from Amsterdam to Cochem which was not very appealing to me. I do travel light but the European train stations Ive seen require a lot of up and down stairs schlepping and connections do add time.

I Was booking some lodging last night and found Bacharach mostly full already. I dont mind staying in one of the other towns. I did read several reviews that said train noise was an issue. It would be for me too being a light sleeper. I see some appealing places further up out of the towns that would be quiet but which would require a car.

As I continue to arrange lodging, Ill see where I end up. At this point I could trains most of the way down to the Mosel and go with either trains or cars from there.

Thank you all for the continuing comments. Very helpful!
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Old Nov 20th, 2016, 08:00 AM
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"I was seeing two connections necessary to get from Amsterdam to Cochem which was not very appealing to me. I do travel light but the European train stations Ive seen require a lot of up and down stairs schlepping and connections do add time."

If you want to drive then you should rent a car. But I will respond to your post anyway since again thoughts about changing trains for this journey should not be based on "European train stations" but on the stations you would actually use if you were to take the train to Cochem.

Yes, 2 connections to Cochem on the best routings. The 8:05 from A'dam has a change in Düsseldorf (7 minutes layover) where you move from track 16 to track 15 - but they're on the same platform. No stairways, just walk across to the connecting train.

The 2nd connection in Koblenz means you have 20 minutes to get from track 4 to track 9. But again there are no stairs to worry about. Koblenz station has elevators on the platforms. From the main hall, walk to the elevator and ascend to the upper level, then walk across that level to the elevator for track 9. Press the down button and you're there.

Koblenz station map: http://www.bahnhof.de/file/bahnhof-d...Hbf_de_PDF.pdf

If you want a cup of coffee in between trains, you'll have time to get it. Elevator up, exit left along upper level to the elevator nearest the main hall.

Main hall: http://www.pemopages.com/Bilder/PeMo...8101209-P6.jpg

Then use same elevator to go up and over to track 9.

Photo of main hall; white footsteps off to the right lead to elevators:

http://www.pemopages.com/Bilder/PeMo...8101209-P6.jpg

"I did read several reviews that said train noise was an issue. It would be for me too being a light sleeper. I see some appealing places further up out of the towns that would be quiet but which would require a car."

THERE IS a problem with train noise, but it's principally in Bacharach as the trains cut right through the heart of the town:

http://www.rhein-zeitung.de/cms_medi..._bacharach.jpg

But even in Bacharach, it's not necessary to park yourself high up into the hills; you can get peace and quiet and still use the trains if you locate yourself along Blücherstrasse, which is a bit further walk but further from the tracks as well.

Boppard and St. Goar do not have the same problem. All you need to do is read the reviews for specific hotels carefully for mention of noise - 1 or 2 comments like that and you toss that option away.

In Boppard the church bells can ring your chimes if you're within a couple of blocks. The Hubertushof where I stayed recently was just fine except for those bells. The Sonnenhof where I'd stayed previously was super-quiet. There are many other options in town that are just fine - but scour the reviews.
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Old Nov 20th, 2016, 09:03 AM
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Thanks so very much! These specific details are very very helpful. Bacharach did have a few of the hotels where reviews mentioned the train noise. I made a reservation for Hotel Reinfels in St. Goar for the time being and will continue to look further.

Church bells would be another issue. I have had that experience once before and checked out early because of it.

Sounds like the trains and stations in Netherlands and Germany are easier to navigate than those in Italy. I've certainly managed well with the Italian stations, but haven't needed to make a lot of connections there.

Thanks for the recommendations. I'll continue to check them out. I do like to read reviews as they can give a good overall picture of a property and location.
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