Stefangk

Hi to everyone. I am seeking help from those of you who happened to live or spent some time in Amsterdam back in the 80s. I am writing a short story set in the Amsterdam of that time and I need information about the city back on those days. I found a relatively old but interesting thread here about Amsterdam in the 80s and 90s which I've found really useful and that have given me a gist about how the city felt back on those days. However, I am missing vital information about the cost of living back in the 80s. I would be really grateful if any of you would share that knowledge with me. I am thinking about simple things like:

- What a decent salary was for an ordinary guy.
- Cost of renting a two bedroom flat.
- How much were things like having a beer, coffee, breakfast or lunch?
- How much was a 15 - 20 min drive in a taxi?
- How much did it cost to take the tram? Did they sell a weekly or monthy pass?
- How much was a packet of cigarettes or a tobacco pouch? What popular brands did they have back then?

Thanks in advance and please feel free to share whatever you feel relevant about the Amsterdam of the 80s.

Cheers!

menachem

remember not to use Euro and € in your novel but guilders and Fl (florin)
Prices in guilders as I remember them

- What a decent salary was for an ordinary guy. before taxes about fl2500/month, fl1800 after taxes. Remember there was a deep recession going on, so your guy might well have been unemployed
- Cost of renting a two bedroom flat. about fl400-fl500/month
- How much were things like having a beer, coffee, breakfast or lunch? beer fl2.50, breakfast/lunch about fl10 - fl12
- How much was a 15 - 20 min drive in a taxi? about fl25 - fl30
- How much did it cost to take the tram? Did they sell a weekly or monthy pass? no we used the strippenkaart a very peculiar 80s concept which had then just been introduced. It had a very particular way of validating/stamping them if you search for the name you'll find many explanations, for instance here: https://www.invadingholland.com/dutc...-strippenkaart
- How much was a packet of cigarettes or a tobacco pouch? What popular brands did they have back then? Caballero, Camel have always been much loved cigarette brands in NL, but lots of artsy types in Amsterdam smoked stuff like Gauloise to pose and of course rolled their own: Van Nelle, Drum, Javaanse Jongens, Niemeyer ( a specific Groningen brand). Don't know prices, because I didn't and don't smoke.

I lived in Amsterdam from 1986 - 2000, then we moved to Rotterdam (thank Gd)

Housing was difficult to get when we moved, so we "rented" houses that were te be demolished because of Stadsvernieuwing, so mainly in the eastern part of the city and moved around the city a lot. But the rent was very cheap and it was a foot in the door in the rental market (even back then, there were 10+ years of waiting for a council/rent controlled rental. Also lots of people were squatting back then, and there were huge squats. If you watch that Ed van der Elsken film about Amsterdam you see a lot of the subculture (for instance, he meets his ex-wife, Gerda vd Veen on the street and she tells him she's going to "festival of fools", which was a big summer thing back then.

Also a huge gay subculture, just before the AIDS crisis hit.

lavandula

Can I recommend a show that SBS in Australia calls "Amsterdam Vice" (Dutch name Baantjer: Het Begin), about a rookie cop in the Amsterdam red light district in 1981. It isn't all that historical except perhaps for the clashes between police and anarchist squatters. It is however a good ride.

I was a visitor to the Netherlands in the 1980s and 1990s (and beyond). The housing situation was very difficult if you were young and wanting to rent, and still is; you have to put your name down on a waiting list for accommodation. My father's cousin lived in a small apartment opposite the Heineken brewery on the Weteringschans, and the family later moved to an outer city quarter, a street near the Amstel, when they bought a bigger house with a friend, when the family got bigger. The friend had the new apartment at ground level and below, and they have the apartment from the first floor upwards, accessed by an enormously long steep staircase. They had someone already inhabiting (renting?) the top floor of their new apartment (two rooms and a small bathroom) when they moved in, and as is customary you can't (and wouldn't) get rid of a renter. He stayed for several years until he eventually moved on. They kept the Weteringschans apartment as an office for my cousin's business and they often had people begging them for a flat when people knew they had the apartment, so dire was the housing situation. Coming from Australia where there is plenty of space and being young I could not fathom why they had Rudy in the attic - he was not exactly a boarder - but I understand the situation better now.

Lavandula

Stefangk

Wow! That was quick. Thanks a lot for your quick response, Menachem. I will certainly watch the documentary. It's already in my saved-to-watch-later list. You have been really helpful. Cheers!

Stefangk

Thanks for answering to my email. This is also the kind of information I was after, so I can properly portray how the city was back then.

Cheers!

menachem

I was in Uni in the mid 80s and everyone I knew back then was either living in a squat or in temporary accommodation like the apartments we rented from Grondbedrijf.
A lot of the battles between Police and anarchists were about housing and squats.
Something that shook the city was the attack on painter Rob Scholte (he lost his legs). Scholte was a big name in art back then

Sassafrass

Anything involving study of the culture of Amsterdam must include the history of the development of the squatting culture in Amsterdam. There are many, many articles and pictures. If this becomes significant to your story, there are people around who were squatters then who could tell you the situation first hand.

menachem

De stad was van ons/The city was ours is a good documentary about squatter culture

lavandula

I might also add - all the stuff about wild Amsterdam in the 1980s and 1990s that PalenQ was talking about in that thread you mention, Stefangk, is there in the background but has little to do with the everyday lives of families in Amsterdam, no more so than the drug / red-light subculture has to do with my everyday life in Sydney (that is, it's there, but I'm not a part of it). The same family I told you about did not as a rule visit the red-light district (I think maybe a cousin drove us through once), the kids were forbidden from watching 'Amsterdamned' on video, they did not go near the flats in the neighbourhood where people took drugs. And there were people far more conservative than them. They had/have neighbours across the road who were very religious and did not / do not watch TV or even have a TV set because it brings evil into the house. This conservatism and deep religiosity is an aspect that is never really talked about, but it's there alongside the wild side, even in the 1980s and 1990s. Sure there are young people who take drugs or go clubbing, but average, drug-free everyday life is there too.

Lavandula

menachem

That's an exception too. Yes, such religiosity does exist, but it was and is not the norm in Amsterdam.

One iconic spot in the 80s was Club Mazzo on Rozengracht (please google translate the article)
https://3voor12.vpro.nl/lokaal/amste...en-achter.html

lavandula

I quite agree - this was something that my cousins found an oddity and a point for discussion. I know there was a big decline in adherence to religion from the 1960s onwards in Dutch society generally and the decline in the old, strict distinctions between the protestant and catholic pillars in society (a cleft in society that affected my own grandparents' marriage) but it surprises me that there still exist little pockets of people who shun modern life and embrace such a deeply conservative or religious life - even in the middle of Amsterdam. Perhaps this is as much an embrace of tradition as it is religiosity. We have our share of religious adherents here, but I don't move in those circles to be able to judge anything about their participation in the 21st century. Probably all this is moot with satellite TV and internet TV where you can get any number of religious channels and you can probably find representation and be assured that you won't invite evil into your lounge room.

Dare I draw a long bow and talk also about backwaters like Spakenburg or Staphorst, where they still wear traditional dress, although decreasingly so. It is charming for tourists but it must seem exhausting to stem the tide of modernity.

Lavandula

Lavandula

menachem

Our bible belt is staunchly calvinist and so is our secularism.

Stefangk

Thanks a lot again to everyone for your contributions. You have all been very helpful. I certainly understand that the RD is not Amsterdam and that Amsterdam's society was and still is much more complex than what a holiday brochure or a few TV programmes may portray. I will try to do some research on the topics you have all mention to have a level of understanding of them. However, I am not trying to write a social novel so I will try to prevent myself into falling into a rabbit hole. I just to want to know enough so I can portray a credible background in which the character acts around.

Cheers and thanks again for sharing your knowledge and experiences.

menachem

If it helps you avoid the usual and obvious mistakes, that would be awesome.

lavandula

Graag gedaan, Stefangk!

Lavandula