Americans moving to Europe - Suggestions?
Feb 21st, 2017, 08:34 AM
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Correct Christina, I didn't mean that I wanted to move somewhere that I would only hang out with Americans. We we want to live abroad is because it will be an enriching experience with different cultures, scenery, people and experiences. We also know once we have kids it would be much more difficult to pick up and go travel like we want to now. Just trying to give myself best chance to be happy abroad while away from everything I know. It is only 2 years though so I have no doubt my husband and I will adapt and have an amazing experience anywhere we go.
There are a lot of great suggestions here and I appreciate you all taking time out of day to chip in! I have lots of research to do.
There are a lot of great suggestions here and I appreciate you all taking time out of day to chip in! I have lots of research to do.
Feb 21st, 2017, 08:37 AM
#22
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<<Claiming someone who is American doesn't speak English is rubbish and ridiculous.>>
Justine did say her comment was a joke. Obviously a bad one and considering her first sneer at the OP, a bad pile on.
Is there a possibility of being stationed in Croatia or Italy - weather, terrain, etc., and generally less expensive than the UK or Paris.
Justine did say her comment was a joke. Obviously a bad one and considering her first sneer at the OP, a bad pile on.
Is there a possibility of being stationed in Croatia or Italy - weather, terrain, etc., and generally less expensive than the UK or Paris.
Feb 21st, 2017, 09:15 AM
#23
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,645
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You don't have a need to be scared. I don't see you have to worry. I see maybe there is a problem if you go to France and your husband speaks better, and he has more French friends, and you don't have as many, then it is a problem. Maybe the solution is to make a contract with him that if you go to France, then he will help you learn. Only speak French together, all the time, in the house. Or else, if he thinks maybe he would like to know a new language, then you go to Italy or Spain or Germany. You are equal students.
It is a long time ago that if you go to cities in Europe you don't find people who speak English. In Spain, many people speak English and French in Barcelona or Madrid. A lot of young people move from home to many big cities in Europe, and because they all speak a different language, they use English to make friends. People want to learn more English because it helps to make money.
I know Americans who move to Europe and they speak English every day. They use the internet every day, on social media. All the time they are telling me that the people who are their friends from social media are coming to Europe, and they go to restaurants with them or go on excursions together. The world is like that now.
I don't understand the Americans who write things here about how stupid Americans are and how Europe is a big difficult place and no fun for Americans. Everythings is too complicated and you should only go to perfect places or else you will be miserable. I know Americans in Europe and they are having fun and they are happy when other Americans come and they share.
It is a long time ago that if you go to cities in Europe you don't find people who speak English. In Spain, many people speak English and French in Barcelona or Madrid. A lot of young people move from home to many big cities in Europe, and because they all speak a different language, they use English to make friends. People want to learn more English because it helps to make money.
I know Americans who move to Europe and they speak English every day. They use the internet every day, on social media. All the time they are telling me that the people who are their friends from social media are coming to Europe, and they go to restaurants with them or go on excursions together. The world is like that now.
I don't understand the Americans who write things here about how stupid Americans are and how Europe is a big difficult place and no fun for Americans. Everythings is too complicated and you should only go to perfect places or else you will be miserable. I know Americans in Europe and they are having fun and they are happy when other Americans come and they share.
Feb 21st, 2017, 10:57 AM
#24
This is, IME, sort of misleading. Lots of Germans speak *some* English, but few speak well enough to have a meaningful conversation. Again, IME, this is true pretty much everywhere in Europe with the exception of Amsterdam. And the UK and Ireland, of course!>>
IME, NewBe, lots of germans speak very good english as I know to my great frustration when I am in Germany trying to practice my german. On occasion this has led to a Mexican standoff with each of us conversing in the other's language!
Having got that off my chest, seippsd, please don't be put off by the occasional spat going on above. We're a funny lot sometimes, but we mean well, and we all want you to have a good time wherever you decide to go. So please don't be put off, we'd like to help, really we would, even if some of us have a funny way of showing it.
IME, NewBe, lots of germans speak very good english as I know to my great frustration when I am in Germany trying to practice my german. On occasion this has led to a Mexican standoff with each of us conversing in the other's language!
Having got that off my chest, seippsd, please don't be put off by the occasional spat going on above. We're a funny lot sometimes, but we mean well, and we all want you to have a good time wherever you decide to go. So please don't be put off, we'd like to help, really we would, even if some of us have a funny way of showing it.
Feb 21st, 2017, 11:09 AM
#25
<nervous about feeling isolated with not being able to speak the language>
Don't be afraid. You will be OK!
I encourage you not to limit this wonderful chance to only English-speaking places.
Say you end up in Paris (lucky you!) you can take classes and pick up enough to get by in shops, etc.
And in any major city you will be able to find an ex-pat community of English speakers if you seek that out.
Don't be afraid. You will be OK!
I encourage you not to limit this wonderful chance to only English-speaking places.
Say you end up in Paris (lucky you!) you can take classes and pick up enough to get by in shops, etc.
And in any major city you will be able to find an ex-pat community of English speakers if you seek that out.
Feb 21st, 2017, 11:11 AM
#26
<just scared about being lonely and homesick >
Plus there's skype, facetime, facebook, instagram, etc. etc. to keep in touch with people back home since this will be only a 2 year stay (which will go by so quickly you won't even believe it)
Plus there's skype, facetime, facebook, instagram, etc. etc. to keep in touch with people back home since this will be only a 2 year stay (which will go by so quickly you won't even believe it)
Feb 21st, 2017, 11:57 AM
#27
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,748
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is totally off the topic of a location, but since you have serious hobbies, which you mention in your original post, I think this will help you ease in to a social life. Join a hiking, running, football, sailing and/or fishing group and you will have friends soon.
I know a guy that belongs to a loose international running group and he has friends around the world.
I Nice came to my mind and it see that others think so too. But really, other than sailing, you can get involved with your athletic interests almost anywhere.
I am a member of a fellowship that meets around the world and that would be the first thing I'd do if I went to another place to live.
I know a guy that belongs to a loose international running group and he has friends around the world.
I Nice came to my mind and it see that others think so too. But really, other than sailing, you can get involved with your athletic interests almost anywhere.
I am a member of a fellowship that meets around the world and that would be the first thing I'd do if I went to another place to live.
Feb 21st, 2017, 12:32 PM
#28
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,019
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The opportunity to live in any country is a real gift.
However, since you may have options, IME, you might consider which culture you would enjoy most. You will find sports, hiking and outdoor activities just about anywhere, but cultures vary greatly, even within a country.
I like the areas of Southern Spain where dinner starts late and people are up and about half the night, and kids and families hang out in plazas eating tapas. I love the Naples area of Italy with the noise and chaos and smell of vegetables, where personal space is small and people take evening walks and kids play soccer in the street. I like places where much of life is lived outside, rules are more like suggestions and art and churches are important.
OTOH, my daughter does not enjoy Spain or Italy as much as countries like Germany and especially Switzerland, where rules and laws are respected and obeyed, and where life is organized and things run on precise times.
Read about how things work socially and what is important culturally in different cities and countries. if you are invited someplace, do you arrive early, on time or late? What do you bring? What kind or color of flowers? Even if it does not help determine your choice, it will let you know more what to expect.
Being a bit afraid in a new situation is normal, but it will pass. Being lonely can be an issue because many Americans extend casual invitations to neighbors or friends or co-workers to come over for a cookout or to watch football, etc. That is not so common in Europe. There are many social groups though where you can meet people. Besides looking for things you already do, look for classes in things you have never tried before. It doesn't have to be unique, just something new to you.
However, since you may have options, IME, you might consider which culture you would enjoy most. You will find sports, hiking and outdoor activities just about anywhere, but cultures vary greatly, even within a country.
I like the areas of Southern Spain where dinner starts late and people are up and about half the night, and kids and families hang out in plazas eating tapas. I love the Naples area of Italy with the noise and chaos and smell of vegetables, where personal space is small and people take evening walks and kids play soccer in the street. I like places where much of life is lived outside, rules are more like suggestions and art and churches are important.
OTOH, my daughter does not enjoy Spain or Italy as much as countries like Germany and especially Switzerland, where rules and laws are respected and obeyed, and where life is organized and things run on precise times.
Read about how things work socially and what is important culturally in different cities and countries. if you are invited someplace, do you arrive early, on time or late? What do you bring? What kind or color of flowers? Even if it does not help determine your choice, it will let you know more what to expect.
Being a bit afraid in a new situation is normal, but it will pass. Being lonely can be an issue because many Americans extend casual invitations to neighbors or friends or co-workers to come over for a cookout or to watch football, etc. That is not so common in Europe. There are many social groups though where you can meet people. Besides looking for things you already do, look for classes in things you have never tried before. It doesn't have to be unique, just something new to you.
Feb 21st, 2017, 12:44 PM
#29
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 12,492
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let's be realistic about language. In that short of a time, just take how ever many language classes you can bear, and try to enjoy your new life abroad. This will, of COURSE, hopefully include a lovely expat group with whom to laugh and cry and fill the social gap that until you are almost fluent, will exist.
I tell clients to not beat themselves up over not having perfected or learned a language WELL those two years they were stationed abroad. Supermarket.. restaurants.. etc.. you will be fine.. once learning is not fun.. slow it down
You HAVE to have FUN. You have to communicate, and some people have a lower level of tolerance and learning desire than others.
All is good. Live your life the way you want. Sports groups, as mentioned, are perhaps the BEST type of group to be with native speakers.. hiking.. tennis.. riding..yoga.. whatever your passion is.
But otherwise.. do what makes you happy.. because an unhappy expat is the worst kind. You will be miserable if you do not make yours and your husband's happiness number one priority.
Also, remember that once you move abroad you will have a barrage of visitors..so your free time is less than you thought and the months will fly by.
Be sure to negotiate with your company the expense of double tax returns and to have a special tax advisor for international posts and their repercussions.
You might want to go to a country that exchanges drivers' licenses so as not to have to study and take their difficult driving theory tests ( Spain, for example, is a nightmare about driving licenses.. expensive and very tough theory exam).
You could get by just renting a car for holidays if you lived in a city.. that is no problem. rental companies accept Am. licenses..and public transportation is excellent.
I think this is a fabulous opportunity and you will regret it if you don't force yourself to overcome whatever fears you have. You can make any destination work for you. I am sure.
I , personally, would like South Africa, Asia or New Zealand.
I tell clients to not beat themselves up over not having perfected or learned a language WELL those two years they were stationed abroad. Supermarket.. restaurants.. etc.. you will be fine.. once learning is not fun.. slow it down
You HAVE to have FUN. You have to communicate, and some people have a lower level of tolerance and learning desire than others.
All is good. Live your life the way you want. Sports groups, as mentioned, are perhaps the BEST type of group to be with native speakers.. hiking.. tennis.. riding..yoga.. whatever your passion is.
But otherwise.. do what makes you happy.. because an unhappy expat is the worst kind. You will be miserable if you do not make yours and your husband's happiness number one priority.
Also, remember that once you move abroad you will have a barrage of visitors..so your free time is less than you thought and the months will fly by.
Be sure to negotiate with your company the expense of double tax returns and to have a special tax advisor for international posts and their repercussions.
You might want to go to a country that exchanges drivers' licenses so as not to have to study and take their difficult driving theory tests ( Spain, for example, is a nightmare about driving licenses.. expensive and very tough theory exam).
You could get by just renting a car for holidays if you lived in a city.. that is no problem. rental companies accept Am. licenses..and public transportation is excellent.
I think this is a fabulous opportunity and you will regret it if you don't force yourself to overcome whatever fears you have. You can make any destination work for you. I am sure.
I , personally, would like South Africa, Asia or New Zealand.
Feb 21st, 2017, 12:55 PM
#30
My expat American friend who I visit in Switzerland & when I was feeling antsy about not speaking French around town assured me in this way...
"You want to buy something, they want to sell something, you'll figure it out"
So while not an in depth or even meaningful conversation, it is not difficult to learn to count, tell time, have polite greetings to exchange with strangers (especially in Spanish or French).
In fact she would send me out on various errands on her behalf, with her exact shopping list and what I was to purchase from whom at the street farmers market, to pick up her dry cleaning, etc. for practice.
"You want to buy something, they want to sell something, you'll figure it out"
So while not an in depth or even meaningful conversation, it is not difficult to learn to count, tell time, have polite greetings to exchange with strangers (especially in Spanish or French).
In fact she would send me out on various errands on her behalf, with her exact shopping list and what I was to purchase from whom at the street farmers market, to pick up her dry cleaning, etc. for practice.
Feb 21st, 2017, 01:37 PM
#31
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Europeans are used to being surrounded by several languages, most of which they don't speak, so their inhibitions get worn down, if they even develop in the first place. We Americans are geographically isolated, so the idea of living as Europeans do can be intimidating."
I think this is spot on. Actually, once you're over there, I'm pretty sure it'll be far less intimidating. I was impressed in Germany especially. It's true that they don't all speak perfect English, but they're used to multiple languages, and even folks who only speak "a little bit of English" make an impressive attempt to communicate with visitors. A few people I talked to kept apologizing for the fact that their second (or third!) language was not so good, but I just couldn't help but be impressed about how much they knew. My German and Spanish will never be at that level unless I was immersed in either for several years.
I would personally choose to live in an area with good transit options and relatively near any day trips to areas you're most interested in. If you're out and about, you'll meet people and those two years will fly right by!
I think this is spot on. Actually, once you're over there, I'm pretty sure it'll be far less intimidating. I was impressed in Germany especially. It's true that they don't all speak perfect English, but they're used to multiple languages, and even folks who only speak "a little bit of English" make an impressive attempt to communicate with visitors. A few people I talked to kept apologizing for the fact that their second (or third!) language was not so good, but I just couldn't help but be impressed about how much they knew. My German and Spanish will never be at that level unless I was immersed in either for several years.
I would personally choose to live in an area with good transit options and relatively near any day trips to areas you're most interested in. If you're out and about, you'll meet people and those two years will fly right by!
Feb 21st, 2017, 04:20 PM
#32
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for all the positive feedback! My husband checked and there are few of the opportunities are in Nice which could be a great fit, especially if it's easy to travel from there to other cities/countries. We went to Italy for our honeymoon and had so much fun meeting people and that's where we got really motivated to travel more!
What may help you all understand my concern about isolation is that I thrive on socialization. I'd be nervous about my overall happiness working from home in America because I'd be alone all day probably talking to my dog and going little crazy haha. I'll figure it out though and it would be incredibly valuable to develop language skills along the way! The first thing I'd do is join various sports teams - I'm athletic so I think locals may be impressed with an American woman giving competition a run for their money
What may help you all understand my concern about isolation is that I thrive on socialization. I'd be nervous about my overall happiness working from home in America because I'd be alone all day probably talking to my dog and going little crazy haha. I'll figure it out though and it would be incredibly valuable to develop language skills along the way! The first thing I'd do is join various sports teams - I'm athletic so I think locals may be impressed with an American woman giving competition a run for their money
Feb 21st, 2017, 04:22 PM
#33
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Read back that last post and realized probably looked like I think Nice is in Italy haha. I just was referring back to another poster who suggested Italy as well! So many amazing places to see and experience.
Feb 21st, 2017, 05:39 PM
#34
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It sounds like a wonderful opportunity for you both and I agree with the France team!
Please make sure you keep us informed all the way through the decision making process.
I have to ask...will you be taking your dog?
Schnauzer
Please make sure you keep us informed all the way through the decision making process.
I have to ask...will you be taking your dog?
Schnauzer
Feb 21st, 2017, 07:01 PM
#35
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 6,324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also agree with the suggestion of Nice (or Amsterdam, but obviously Nice gets better weather).
There are expats - a few international Schools in the area, for example in Mougins. There's a high tech area in Sofia Antipolis, and plenty of international companies in the area.
For only 2 years it's not realistic to think that you are going to have a large circle of French friends. Join a sports club, play tennis, sign up for French classes; it's easy to meet people this way. There's an American Women's club that organises activities.
Nice has plenty of possibilities for hiking and outdoor pursuits. Skiing is only an hour or 2 away in winter, and easy connections from Nice airport.
Good luck, let us know how it turns out!
There are expats - a few international Schools in the area, for example in Mougins. There's a high tech area in Sofia Antipolis, and plenty of international companies in the area.
For only 2 years it's not realistic to think that you are going to have a large circle of French friends. Join a sports club, play tennis, sign up for French classes; it's easy to meet people this way. There's an American Women's club that organises activities.
Nice has plenty of possibilities for hiking and outdoor pursuits. Skiing is only an hour or 2 away in winter, and easy connections from Nice airport.
Good luck, let us know how it turns out!
Feb 21st, 2017, 08:16 PM
#37
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,960
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Christina and Bigruss.. sorry my joke bothered you Americans.. but its not like I created that joke about "speaking American not being like speaking English" . It a well known joke that many find amusing, if you cant laugh at yourself then that's sad.
OP I think since you admit that you are social and outgoing you will be fine.. it would be much harder if a person was an introvert.
I like the idea of hanging out at a Starbucks.. free wifi, all day lattes , and I am sure more than a few regulars who speak English.
It is perhaps easier for some folks than others to live somewhere foreign.. I have a daughter who is intelligent, confident and social, with many friends, but she becomes lonely easily.. its difficult for me to understand as I never feel lonely.. never have even as a child and teen.
This is one reason I have enjoyed my solo trips abroad.. I rather delight in being alone in a foreign place and yes, I know most folks don't get it.. none of my friends understood when I first started solo travel.. with a hubby and kids , why would I go off alone.
So perhaps I need to be more understanding of how most folks feel instead of how I would look at a situation .
I hope/think ( from subsequent posts) OP is not so much fearful.. and just in a state of anticipation and not knowing exactly what to expect. That I can rather understand.
I envy you the opportunity, two years sometimes must feel like a long time, but I bet you will look back on it as a blip in your life. Hopefully a fun blip.
OP I think since you admit that you are social and outgoing you will be fine.. it would be much harder if a person was an introvert.
I like the idea of hanging out at a Starbucks.. free wifi, all day lattes , and I am sure more than a few regulars who speak English.
It is perhaps easier for some folks than others to live somewhere foreign.. I have a daughter who is intelligent, confident and social, with many friends, but she becomes lonely easily.. its difficult for me to understand as I never feel lonely.. never have even as a child and teen.
This is one reason I have enjoyed my solo trips abroad.. I rather delight in being alone in a foreign place and yes, I know most folks don't get it.. none of my friends understood when I first started solo travel.. with a hubby and kids , why would I go off alone.
So perhaps I need to be more understanding of how most folks feel instead of how I would look at a situation .
I hope/think ( from subsequent posts) OP is not so much fearful.. and just in a state of anticipation and not knowing exactly what to expect. That I can rather understand.
I envy you the opportunity, two years sometimes must feel like a long time, but I bet you will look back on it as a blip in your life. Hopefully a fun blip.
Feb 21st, 2017, 09:18 PM
#38
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,302
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Forget about Spain. Total disaster. They speak Mexican. I can prove it. Nothing there only junk food.
Forget about Eastern Europe. Cold. Bad people. Former communists. Only good thing is they have the best peostitues. They are fantastic. Trust me. Great prostitutes.
Scrap france. They eat snails. They lose all wars. Total disaster.
Forget dutchland. Flat country. Bad food. Industry ? Cheese and tulips. Come on.
Sweden ? When somebody says they have riots the day before by mistake they organize one ! Total disaster.
Italy ? Mafia. Great guys. They have balls and women have nothing to say. Great country. Badly managed. Full of ruins !
Germany ? Total losers. They lost even against the French !
So what is left ?
Belgium.
Great guys. Smart. Speak all languages. All badly. Good food. Think fries. Fantastic fries. Weather ? Great weather. Excellent. 300 days of rain. Healthy. Industry ? Chocolate ! Speculoos. Beer. Best beer in the world.
If you can survive with English arrogant snobs there is a large community in Waterloo.
Waterloo is great. That is where they beat the French. Great landscape. Great farms. Great beer !
Don't hesitate. Waterloo is for you.
And we love your president. Great guy. He said Brussels is a hellhole. But it is ok. He thought Brussels was in Germany. GERMANY is a hellhole.
We are great.
Forget about Eastern Europe. Cold. Bad people. Former communists. Only good thing is they have the best peostitues. They are fantastic. Trust me. Great prostitutes.
Scrap france. They eat snails. They lose all wars. Total disaster.
Forget dutchland. Flat country. Bad food. Industry ? Cheese and tulips. Come on.
Sweden ? When somebody says they have riots the day before by mistake they organize one ! Total disaster.
Italy ? Mafia. Great guys. They have balls and women have nothing to say. Great country. Badly managed. Full of ruins !
Germany ? Total losers. They lost even against the French !
So what is left ?
Belgium.
Great guys. Smart. Speak all languages. All badly. Good food. Think fries. Fantastic fries. Weather ? Great weather. Excellent. 300 days of rain. Healthy. Industry ? Chocolate ! Speculoos. Beer. Best beer in the world.
If you can survive with English arrogant snobs there is a large community in Waterloo.
Waterloo is great. That is where they beat the French. Great landscape. Great farms. Great beer !
Don't hesitate. Waterloo is for you.
And we love your president. Great guy. He said Brussels is a hellhole. But it is ok. He thought Brussels was in Germany. GERMANY is a hellhole.
We are great.
Feb 21st, 2017, 09:24 PM
#39
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,302
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I didn't talk about the Swiss. Nothing there. Mountains. People copylating for centuries among themselves. Not even European. Not even speaking the same language. Total disaster. Avoid. never met a Swiss who could speak good American. They talk gold.
