Areala

Is there anyone out there who can de-mystify the process for an American to get married in France or Italy.

My first choice is France but from what I have gleaned thus far, one of the two must live in France for at least 40 days prior to the wedding so I think France will be out of the question

so..next choice..Italy

I know I can get married here in the states and fly off to whatever country I want for a honeymoon and perhaps even have a simple service but this is not what I want. What I would really like is to just get married by the justice of the peace with a simple service consisting of a witness or 2 and that's it. None of our family would be able to attend so am not looking for a wedding planner to throw some humungus expensive wedding.

I am older, let's just say late 50's this is my second marriage. The first one I ran off to the justice of the peace, now this one I have been living with 25 years now. I really don't want to waste money on a huge wedding and stuff and all that fluff would rather blow the money on a trip to europe instead but because I didn't have that dream ideal wedding with a gown and all that froo froo stuf that most young women get to experience then this time around I wanted it to be unique in some way and since we both adore going to europe and France is my favorite country then Italy although I must say it's a very close tie.

I have been searching on gettting married in either one of those countries and I am so totally confused so I was hoping somone here could help or at least point me in the right direction for help in this matter.

So anyone out there who has perhaps experienced this process or knows who or where I contact please let me know.

Thanks a bunch............

Happy Travels

nytraveler

In either country there are residency requirements, governmental paperwork in the local language (including proof that you are free to marry - in your case your divorce decree would probably need to be provided and translated) and a fair amount of red tape.

Certainly not impossible, but a little complicated. I'm not sure this is something you can pull off yourself without professional advice on the spot. If you do a search here on weddings in italy several people gave specifics on the process they had to go through or were going through. That might help.

Also - you could contact your local Italian consulate and see what info they have to give you.

Jean

As with all things found on the internet, you need to research that the info in these websites is correct and current:

http://www.usembassy.it/acs/marriage...l-marriage.asp

http://www.italy-weddings.com/how_to...d_in_italy.htm

ellenem

I have posted this before but will repost for Areala. I got married in Italy almost 20 years ago and did it all on my own. Are you from the US? I have found that for most people the biggest difficulty is back home, not in Italy.

The first thing you need to do before anything else is go to an Italian Consulate in the US, bringing four friends with you who have known you for some time and can sign documents to the fact that you are who you say you are and are not married to someone else or leaving behind children and responsibilities from another marriage. If you don't live near a Italian Consulate in the US, this is often the most difficult piece of paperwork for people to arrange.

We also followed instructions to get Italian translations of our birth certificates, which we did, but no one ever used for any stage of the preparations. (Others have said they did need these at some point in Italy.)

In Italy you must file more paperwork with a US Consulate there, get it certified at the city's Prefettura, and then take all those documents to the town hall of the city where you want to marry and apply for a license. Back in the US, we were told we would need two witnesses for this part, but when we brought our witnesses to the consulate, we were told their presence was unnecessary.

We wanted to marry in Venice at city hall. This was pre-internet days, so an Italian friend of mine researched the phone number of the office in Venice that did marriage ceremonies. He spoke with the woman in charge (Sra Fuccillo) who actually spoke English, so I contacted her a few months in advance to reserve a time for the wedding. She told us to show up two days before with all our paperwork, and then she would prepare the license.

And so, we did our US paperwork about a month before the wedding. We lived in NYC, so this was easily accomplished. We arrived in Milan and went to the US Consulate in Milan the next day to file the paperwork. Another difficulty can be opening and closing times. We filed our papers in the morning, but had to return after lunch to receive the final documents. By the time we received them, the Prefettura in Milan where they could be notarized by the proper authorities was closed for the day. Fortunately, we were told that the Prefettura in Venice could do the authorization as well. The next day we went to Venice and got our paper from the consulate notarized at the Prefettura—some small fees were involved. The next day after that, we filed our papers at city hall with Sra Fuccillo, and paid all the marriage fees.

Two days later, a local magistrate performed the ceremony in Italian, with Sra Fucillo reading an English translation. The ceremony took place in the city council chamber in a room overlooking the Grand Canal.

The paperwork and arrangements can be done on your own, but if you do a search here you will find a number of recommendations for wedding planners that might make the process easier. Triple check the latest information and requirements, since every step of the way you may deal with people who tell you something different. We found the US State Dept to offer the most clear and accurate description of the requirements at the time.

Really truly the most difficult part for most Americans is obtaining the documents you need from the Italian Consulate in the US.

ira

Hi Ar,

>What I would really like is to just get married by the justice of the peace with a simple service consisting of a witness or 2 and that's it. <

You can do that in the US and save yourself a lot of hassle.


Enjoy your honeymoon.

Luisah

I got married in Paris eons ago and it was a complicated process. After all the required documents were translated and submitted, we were given a date and time to show up at the mairie (sp?). We were one of several couples in a large room. You've heard if double weddings? This was a large group ceremony. The judge spoke in French and at the appropriate time everyone stood and said "oui" and we were all officially married.

We had a religious ceremony in a chapel in the afternoon, much nicer.

Areala

Thank You ellenem.....Your explanation did claify a few things for me. Most I already new from searching the internet but after reading many I got really confused

Yes ira....I knew that of course since my first wedding was performed precisely in that manner.

My point was I wanted this to be special in some way. Some women want a big showy wedding, or some people want to do it off a bungee cord or on top of the empire state building really there are so many ways however for me, Stephen and I love to travel to europe and rather than blow 5 or more grand on a spectacular wedding I would rather take that money and blow it in europe. At my age 50+ the travel would be more meaningful to me than some big wedding. So why not mark that special occasion by getting married in a different country. Unfortuneately other countries don't make it quite as easy as we do. Perhaps that's another thought for discussion. If marriage was more difficult and people had to jump thru way more hoops to be able to get married then maybe they might think twice about it thereby reducing our divorce rate.... just a thought...I doubt if that would really have a significant effect but it does make one wonder about those spontaneous marriages, there may be fewer of those....

By the way, I did do searches here on Fodors and even phrased it several different ways in hopes of coming up with something but nothing came up.

Thank you all for responding. Perhaps someone (maybe me) once I go thru this can write up a blog or book or something with step by step instructions to help people achieve this. Too bad about France requiring 40 days residency.

Carlux

I think there are two things here - one is the 'official, legal marriage' which in France is a civil ceremony. You are married by the Mayor in the commune in which you live, and as Luisah mentioned, it is not always a romantic process.

Then there are 'additional' wedding ceremonies. In France many people choose to be married in a church after the civil ceremony, presumably for the more romantic feel of a traditional wedding. There seem to be planners that handle this (I've heard of them in Italy, and have no idea if they exist in France.) They organize a romantic wedding for you in the place of your choosing, with catering, decoration, etc.

I'm not sure what you are looking for. The civil ceremony would give you a foreign marriage certificate, but not necessarily more than that. If you are members of the Catholic church you might be able to arrange a ceremony in a church - not a real, legal wedding, but a ceremony.

Just as an aside, we had some people staying with us who wanted to renew their vows (after 10 years of marriage) in Sarlat. I spoke to the priest in Sarlat, who was quite mystified. He had never heard of this, couldn't really understand why people would want to, but was willing to speak to them about it - in French. Turned out to be too difficult for them.

So, some ideas that seem romantic to someone coming to this (or another) country don't always fit in with local customs.

nukesafe

Another option might be to get married in the States, and then later renew your vows at a church ceremony in Europe. We had a renewal of vows ceremony at the American Church in Paris for our 20th anniversary. It costs a few bucks, but there was no bureaucratic hassles involved. In my research, I found that there were a lot of churches that do this.

Here is a link to one, there is at least one other in Paris.
http://www.acparis.org/

ellenem

As I mentioned, just as you did, we heard a variety of descriptions of the marriage paperwork requirements. In fact, when we arrived in Venice a few days before our wedding, we met another couple from the US who had just gotten married. They had gone to Florence to do so, but were turned away because their paperwork was not considered correct. They called around to other cities and Sra Fuccillo said that they could come to Venice. I'm not sure if she was more "flexible" about the paperwork, but I mention this to show you that it can be confusing dealing with Italian bureaucracy.

Our residency requirements were waved because the whole point of residency was to post the banns to give an opportunity for objections to our marriage. Since we were not Italian residents, it was assumed no one would respond to any banns.

The requirement for four friends to attest to your freedom to marry is one that all who marry in Italy must follow, not just foreigners. It is "hoop jumping" as you say, to verify that the person is not bigamous, or leaving behind children and other responsibilities—a verification that this person is who they claim to be. This seems like a pretty useful requirement to me.

Here's a photo I found online of the council chamber (or one very much like it) in which our ceremony took place.

http://www.comune.venezia.it/flex/im...7/DSC_6199.jpg

Christina

I thought you could get married legally in Italy without long residency requirements, but you cannot in France. And you can't have a religious ceremony that easily in France, either (or anywhere where it actually means something to be a member of that church or parish, you don't just drop in off the street).

There are certainly wedding arrangers in France but they specialize in the fake ceremonies/shows rather than real weddings for Americans, as they can't be legally married there without the residency. And they charge a lot, of course.

I think there are places in Europe where you can more easily marry without extensive residency requirements, but not France (and not most places).

I don't see how doing a quick civil ceremony in a civil servant's office in France would be any more special than the same thing in the US. I don't know how people expect to do that when they aren't French residents, and I presume wouldn't even understand what was being said anyway.

If you want a quickie wedding rite with no conditions, go to the Caribbean or places that specialize in that stuff.

I know someone who got married in Germany, to a German woman (he was American) and it still took months of paperwork and documents.

Christina

here you go
http://www.weddings-in-italy.com/
http://www.weddingsinitaly.com/
http://www.exclusiveitalyweddings.com/

of course if you don't want to spend any money, no one is going to help you for low cost. Those places exist to make money, but the websites probably have info to give you an idea of what you have to do. Also check the embassy website of Italy in the US, for example. I think the French Embassy in the US talks about this on their website.

Also check the US state dept website, they have some info on what is required for it to be legal in the US. They suggest you contact the country's tourist information office.

Areala

It seems some are confused. All I want is a civil ceremony for the legality of it. I am not into all the church stuff for the romance of it all.

All I want to do is be able to say, Stephen and I were married in France or Stephen and I were married in Italy. Somehow it takes away the honesty of that if you get married in the States and just sort of renew your vows elsewhere you can't with all all honesty say we were married in France or we were married in Italy because technically we were already married when we arrived. I want to be able to arrive single and leave married this way the one and only thing I can say about my wedding is that we were married in France or Italy.

As I stated before I don't believe France is an option because of the residency thing, but a civil ceremony in Italy I believe is possible. I will have to jump thru a ton of hoops to make it happen but I do believe it's doable.

Christina...thanks for the sites but I had already found them and they want to plan a wedding...and I mean a wedding...dress..bridesmaids...reception the whole shebang....I want nothing to do with a wedding dress or bridesmaids or even a reception...we will have a reception upon our return from europe where all my family and friends can attend,,, trust me my family and friends would never be able to afford a trip to europe just to observe my wedding !!

I thank everyone for their input..ellenem you have been very helpful I think I knew most of that information at some point but somehow it was all becoming this mish mash in my head and you have helped me sort it all back out to make sense of it all. I think sometimes the more you read on a subject the more confused one can get.....I was also confusing the France stuff with the Italy stuff so I had gotten to the point of not knowing whats what anymore...duh..Thanks again

If anyone else has more current information on a civil ceremony in Italy or knows of someway to circumvent some of this stuff I would be grateful for all knowledge.

Thans a bunch..........

LoveItaly

Hello Areala, here is the website from our US State Dept. regarding Americans getting married in Italy. Not sure if this has been posted above or not.

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizens...nship_754.html

My very best wishes to you and Stephen. May your wedding day be beautiful and may you continue to have a loving life together for many decades.

ellenem

LoveItaly's link describes precisely my experience getting married in Italy, even though it was quite a while ago at this point.

suze

Rather than using only Fodor's, if you put in the words 'US citizens getting married in Italy' into a broader Google-type search, lots of links pop up. Not just fancy wedding planners, but the legal stuff.

Jean

In case you didn't click on the links within my earlier referral to the U.S. Embassy website, note the detailed instructions. A lot of paperwork is required, most of which apparently must be translated into Italian, and you must (should?) have translators with you at various times/places. It seems you need significant lead-time to accomplish everything before leaving the U.S. and you need to be in Italy for several days before the wedding in order to finish up with the bureaucrats. Note the need for an appointment at the consulate and possibly the prefettura, and you'll need to return to the prefeturra after the ceremony for more paperwork so that there will be no doubt the marriage will be recognized everywhere outside of Italy.

Your wedding location may be limited to places within a reasonable distance of the U.S. consular offices in Milan, Florence, Rome and Naples. Florence seems to waive some requirements.

http://www.usembassy.it/acs/marriage/marriage-rome.asp

http://www.usembassy.it/acs/marriage...e-florence.asp

http://milan.usconsulate.gov/files/marriage.asp

http://www.usembassy.it/acs/marriage...age-naples.asp

Getting married in Italy sounds very romantic until you see the hoops you'll have to jump through. Must be a test. Good luck!

Alec

US side of things are time-consuming and tedious, but perfectly doable if you have patience and attention to details, and no knowledge of Italian is required. It's the red tape and practicality in Italy that require a significant Italian ability, both spoken and written. While you may find occasional city hall staff who speak English, you can't count on that (even in Venice, that English-speaking person may have moved/retired or happen to be on annual leave). And because of the legal nature of marriage, a competent translator is essential. If you don't have a good friend or family member who ideally lives in Italy who can accompany you to meetings and phone on your behalf, you will have to pay someone to do it - which means a wedding co-ordinator/arranger, most of whom will agree to do just the legal part for a fee. You will probably need at least one prior trip to Italy to make all the arrangements.
Is it doable? Yes, and others have done it, but there is a considerable red tape involved, and everything you sign will be in Italian only. And the parochial nature of Italian bureaucracy means that there may be different rules and requirements between different prefectural offices and city halls, even between different staff working in the same place.

StCirq

An awful lot of time, money, and inconvenience, IMO, just to be able to say "we got married in Italy." If you had families ties or some strong relationship with a particular place in Italy or France, I could see it, but since that doesn't seem to be the case.

Jean

I love Alec's pointing out the possibility of different rules and regs between different offices and even between different staff in the same office. We've certainly experienced that on another issue.