American Airlines - AArrivederci legroom
Oct 20th, 2004, 04:24 PM
#21
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Bad news, AA one of my favorite airlines but not only because of leg room...I'll still continue to fly them.
For those of you travelling in the near future, AA is not going to run out tomorrow and refit all their planes, that in itself is very costly. And when they do it may not be so bad, not like when United did their cramming measure a few years back and found it was not only uncomfortable but painful for some passengers. I'm sure it will be within reason.
For those of you travelling in the near future, AA is not going to run out tomorrow and refit all their planes, that in itself is very costly. And when they do it may not be so bad, not like when United did their cramming measure a few years back and found it was not only uncomfortable but painful for some passengers. I'm sure it will be within reason.
Oct 20th, 2004, 06:43 PM
#24
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Here's my question, i booked a flight for next week to Italy that says more leg room flight. Are you saying the planes seat have been reconfigured and it no longer has more leg room OR is this something that will happen over time. Are they still advetising more leg room for specific flights and have changed it without changing what it says on AA.com for those flights?
Oct 20th, 2004, 08:23 PM
#25
The re-installation of the seats that were removed to make MRTC will begin on MD-80, 737 and 767 aircraft beginning after New Years. The 777s will retain MRTC until at least October 2005. Of course it takes quite a while to refit the airplanes because they don't want to remove too many from service at one time. But winter is a slow time anyway, so I wouldn't expect too many planes (except the 777s) will still have MRTC by spring/summer. Look at your booking to see what aircraft you've reserved. Generally markets like Rome and Paris have been served largely by 767 airplanes. Note that AA had already reconfigured its 757s and A300s to LRTC - these are the planes used on most tourist runs and in the Caribbean now.
Oct 21st, 2004, 07:43 AM
#27
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This is the response I received from AA yesterday, hours after I sent my email to them:
Dear Mrs. Kubiak:
Thank you for contacting us. We consider feedback from our customers
to be very
important. We are currently experiencing higher than normal email
communications from
our customers and our response to you may be delayed. We'll reply as
soon as possible
and we appreciate your patience in the meantime. Just a reminder, if
your inquiry
involves an upcoming trip or imminent travel arrangements, please
telephone our
specialists at 1-800-433-7300. They will be able to assist you. (If
calling from
outside the United States or Canada, please refer to Worldwide
Reservations Phone
Numbers listed on AA.com.)
This is a "post-only" email response. Please do not reply to this
message.
Sincerely,
Greg Clark
Customer Relations
American Airlines
Maybe the "higher than normal email correspondence" means that there are a lot of pissed off customers complaining about the changes they want to make!
Dear Mrs. Kubiak:
Thank you for contacting us. We consider feedback from our customers
to be very
important. We are currently experiencing higher than normal email
communications from
our customers and our response to you may be delayed. We'll reply as
soon as possible
and we appreciate your patience in the meantime. Just a reminder, if
your inquiry
involves an upcoming trip or imminent travel arrangements, please
telephone our
specialists at 1-800-433-7300. They will be able to assist you. (If
calling from
outside the United States or Canada, please refer to Worldwide
Reservations Phone
Numbers listed on AA.com.)
This is a "post-only" email response. Please do not reply to this
message.
Sincerely,
Greg Clark
Customer Relations
American Airlines
Maybe the "higher than normal email correspondence" means that there are a lot of pissed off customers complaining about the changes they want to make!
Oct 21st, 2004, 09:10 AM
#28
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yeah, sure, I suppose you believe it when recorded messages on the phone tell you the wait is 30 min due to higher than normal calling. It's just because they don't hire enough people to answer phones or emails. That's a form letter they send to any email message, it doesn't mean anything. You'll probably never near from them again.
Oct 21st, 2004, 09:32 AM
#30
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<b>Christina</b>,
You are correct for the most part, but you are incorrect about not getting a reply. She will get a reply within a day or 2. AA is good about that.
I would not expect any new info with the reply.
I believe that written letters do get more personal attention. When I really have a problem with AA and the great Executive Platinum desk is unable to get some kind of acceptable response from the department that I have a problem with, I do write a letter to the customer service desk as well as send copies to head of the department and the CEO of AA. It's amazing how quickly things get corrected.
In this case an e-mail is sufficient as it's not really a specific problem related to your experience, and it will be filed, but I'm guessing AA will stick with this regardless of how many e-mails/letters they get.
On the bright side, there was a preliminary announcemet made by Arpey that AA already has made a decision to install new business class seats as well as video-on-demand for all three classes of service on their 777s. Unforunately no more details at this time, but I assume these will be fully flat bed seats. That would be wonderful. Something like BA business seats perhaps.
You are correct for the most part, but you are incorrect about not getting a reply. She will get a reply within a day or 2. AA is good about that.
I would not expect any new info with the reply.
I believe that written letters do get more personal attention. When I really have a problem with AA and the great Executive Platinum desk is unable to get some kind of acceptable response from the department that I have a problem with, I do write a letter to the customer service desk as well as send copies to head of the department and the CEO of AA. It's amazing how quickly things get corrected.
In this case an e-mail is sufficient as it's not really a specific problem related to your experience, and it will be filed, but I'm guessing AA will stick with this regardless of how many e-mails/letters they get.
On the bright side, there was a preliminary announcemet made by Arpey that AA already has made a decision to install new business class seats as well as video-on-demand for all three classes of service on their 777s. Unforunately no more details at this time, but I assume these will be fully flat bed seats. That would be wonderful. Something like BA business seats perhaps.
Oct 21st, 2004, 09:35 AM
#31
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is this really shocking? it's a crappy airline, with terrible service. they misplaced my bags on 4 straight flights earlier this year and virtually all flights into DFW sit on the ground (after landing!) for at least thirty minutes before parking at the gate because they never have available gates. I can't imagine anyone ver makes connections at DFW unless they have 90 minutes between flights.
Unfortunately I moved to Dallas many years ago and unless I want to connect through another city I am stuck with them forever.
Unfortunately I moved to Dallas many years ago and unless I want to connect through another city I am stuck with them forever.
Oct 21st, 2004, 10:01 AM
#32
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AAFF - From what I'm reading on flyertalk.com, all the just announced new Japan service (ORD-NGO, DFW-KIX) will be on "Atlantic"-configured 777s. I think that means all of AA's 777 should be in the better "Atlantic" version soon.
As for legroom, this is not surprising at all. The big legacy carriers rely on corporate accounts and business travelers for their revenue, and price and schedule is most important for the corporate's travel office. The employee often has little to say about which airline to pick. The extra legroom makes no difference to the penny-counters.
And over-capacity isn't really the problem right now. It's high cost and low fares. Most of the major airlines are filling up 80% of their seats, which is excellent. And even higher on Atlantic and Pacific routes. So, removing seats are simply cutting revenue.
As for legroom, this is not surprising at all. The big legacy carriers rely on corporate accounts and business travelers for their revenue, and price and schedule is most important for the corporate's travel office. The employee often has little to say about which airline to pick. The extra legroom makes no difference to the penny-counters.
And over-capacity isn't really the problem right now. It's high cost and low fares. Most of the major airlines are filling up 80% of their seats, which is excellent. And even higher on Atlantic and Pacific routes. So, removing seats are simply cutting revenue.
Oct 25th, 2004, 04:31 PM
#33
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For those who are interested, I did receive a reply from AA. It may be a "canned" response but it was quite lengthy. Here is part of what they said:
If we are to remain competitive and increase our strengths, we are determined to find a viable balance
between cost-competitiveness and our customers' preferences. As a result, we made the difficult but prudent decision to add seats back on our MD80s, 737s, 767s and 777s. We are convinced that there was no better alternative -- we had to correct this
inefficiency.
However, we will be adding back fewer seats than we initially removed. For
instance,on MD80s and Boeing 737s, we removed two rows of seats and we're adding back only one row. The result is that there will still be more legroom in the coach cabin than there was before February 2000 (when we first began removing seats). Also, with the addition of more seats, we will have more seats to sell at lower
fares. We hope our customers will consider this to be a reasonable tradeoff.
If we are to remain competitive and increase our strengths, we are determined to find a viable balance
between cost-competitiveness and our customers' preferences. As a result, we made the difficult but prudent decision to add seats back on our MD80s, 737s, 767s and 777s. We are convinced that there was no better alternative -- we had to correct this
inefficiency.
However, we will be adding back fewer seats than we initially removed. For
instance,on MD80s and Boeing 737s, we removed two rows of seats and we're adding back only one row. The result is that there will still be more legroom in the coach cabin than there was before February 2000 (when we first began removing seats). Also, with the addition of more seats, we will have more seats to sell at lower
fares. We hope our customers will consider this to be a reasonable tradeoff.
Oct 25th, 2004, 05:24 PM
#34
<i>However, we will be adding back fewer seats than we initially removed. For instance,on MD80s and Boeing 737s, we removed two rows of seats and we're adding back only one row.</i>
Something about lies, damned lies and statistics comes to mind.
They will be adding back fewer seats than they took out only on MD80s and 737s. The 777s and 767s that fly to Europe (as in the Europe board on Fodors) will have all their removed seates replaced. So fine, you can ride from Dallas to New Orleans with 33 inches of legroom, for all of the one hour and nineteen minutes it takes, but Dallas to Gatwick, nine hours and fifteen minutes? Or Chicago to Tokyo, thirteen hours and twenty minutes? Oh, uh - sorry. Have a drink and forget your worries, chaps. That'll be $5 please. What? You don't pay for drinks on that other carrier? And they offer you another inch or two of knee room? Didn't your father tell you to Buy American? What are you, some kind of commie?
Something about lies, damned lies and statistics comes to mind.
They will be adding back fewer seats than they took out only on MD80s and 737s. The 777s and 767s that fly to Europe (as in the Europe board on Fodors) will have all their removed seates replaced. So fine, you can ride from Dallas to New Orleans with 33 inches of legroom, for all of the one hour and nineteen minutes it takes, but Dallas to Gatwick, nine hours and fifteen minutes? Or Chicago to Tokyo, thirteen hours and twenty minutes? Oh, uh - sorry. Have a drink and forget your worries, chaps. That'll be $5 please. What? You don't pay for drinks on that other carrier? And they offer you another inch or two of knee room? Didn't your father tell you to Buy American? What are you, some kind of commie?
Oct 25th, 2004, 06:29 PM
#36
No, it's just doublespeak from the writers of form letters - the one you got is the one that for now is the "gold standard" of AA responses to complaints about LRTC.
On the conference call (quarterly financial report carried on the financial networks and AA.com) Chairman Arpey and the other suits present said all the 777s and 767s will get LRTC. <b>Only</b> the 737s and MD80s will have a few less seats added back in, and only then because they're adding rows in first class and the geometry won't allow full restoration of all coach seats. The 777s don't turn into Mr. Hyde until next autumn; the 767s start getting refitted right after New Years.
On the conference call (quarterly financial report carried on the financial networks and AA.com) Chairman Arpey and the other suits present said all the 777s and 767s will get LRTC. <b>Only</b> the 737s and MD80s will have a few less seats added back in, and only then because they're adding rows in first class and the geometry won't allow full restoration of all coach seats. The 777s don't turn into Mr. Hyde until next autumn; the 767s start getting refitted right after New Years.
Oct 25th, 2004, 07:00 PM
#37
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I am taking the 767 to Rome next May..
If I knew this before I bought my tickets, I would have chosen Continental and leave from Houston instead of going up all the way to Chicago and then to Rome..
If I knew this before I bought my tickets, I would have chosen Continental and leave from Houston instead of going up all the way to Chicago and then to Rome..
Oct 26th, 2004, 07:23 AM
#39
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Writing and whining means nothing. The consumer has spoken in the last few years when they haven't given AA a financial advantage to keep the program. If they've been packing their planes with high-fare paying customers, then they won't switch back. That did not happen, and therefore the experiment has to end. Simple as that.
Oct 26th, 2004, 07:58 AM
#40
Well, I seldom whine, but my suggestion was for customers like kismetchimera to write them and tell them that because they will now offer an <i>inferior</i> product to many people (i.e., same discomfort in coach, generally the same or poorer in-flight service, but with less convenient schedules due to hub-and-spoke operations rather than direct flights), then discretionary travel dollars will be going elsewhere than AA.
Rkkwan, you're right - I don't think complaining and asking for them to reverse their decision will work, only the denial of trade will get the attention of the accountants on Mahogany Row at AA. But people should tell them why they're taking their custom elsewhere, then just do it.
Once this change is done, and absent any offsetting improvements in service in coach, just wait until the 2006 passenger satisfaction surveys are released. Hoo boy.
Rkkwan, you're right - I don't think complaining and asking for them to reverse their decision will work, only the denial of trade will get the attention of the accountants on Mahogany Row at AA. But people should tell them why they're taking their custom elsewhere, then just do it.
Once this change is done, and absent any offsetting improvements in service in coach, just wait until the 2006 passenger satisfaction surveys are released. Hoo boy.
