Am I getting scammed? Apartment rental
May 26th, 2009, 05:19 AM
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Am I getting scammed? Apartment rental
We finally found on an apartment in London. Had a hard time due to Wimbledon and other things going on when we're there. Place is PERFECT for us in terms of location and price and looks great. In my effort to find an apartment, I had emailed someone named Chris that a Fodorite recommended on these message boards. He emailed me back that he had no availability. When I sent him a reply email and said thanks, but we found a perfect "almost too good to be true" place anyway, he said to be careful because in South Kensington there are a lot of scams and these apartments don't really exist. You pay your money and then never hear from them again. The way he described the circumstances made it sound exactly like our place!
Here are my questions:
1) The owner has the listing posted through Home Away rental agency. Has anyone used this rental agency? Are they legit? They look like the real deal, but it's a website, so who knows? (www.Homeaway.com)
2) Home Away has something called a "Rental Guarantee." They guarantee the place is legit up to $5000 as long as you meet their specifications, including for how you pay for the accommodation. They say you have to pay by credit card, PayPal, or bank transfer. They won't honor the Rental Guarantee if you pay by wire transfer using Western Union or Money Gram. I don't get the distinction between bank transfer and wire transfer -- or rather how a bank transfer is considered safer for ME? And of course, that's how my property owner wants us to pay! Do I do it? I'm supposed to do this today.
3) The owner has about 5 properties listed under his name (Gerry -- no last name, but his email to me was from McCormack, so I'm assuming his name is Gerry McCormack.) A few of his properties have rave reviews from previous renters, my apartment has none. The reviews look legitimate, but I know he could easily make them up. My thought was... if he were going to make up reviews, why not make them up for all of his properties? Also, he says if you want tickets to sporting events in London, that he can arrange that. Just seems like an odd thing to add if this were not a legitimate rental? He's only been with Home Away since sometime in 2009, so I know it's unlikely, but has anyone out there rented with him before?
Here's the link to the actual apartment:
http://www.holiday-rentals.co.uk/p420861
Here are all of this property owners' rentals:
http://www.holiday-rentals.co.uk/sea...uth+kensington
Please answer ASAP if at all possible. Thank you!!!!
Here are my questions:
1) The owner has the listing posted through Home Away rental agency. Has anyone used this rental agency? Are they legit? They look like the real deal, but it's a website, so who knows? (www.Homeaway.com)
2) Home Away has something called a "Rental Guarantee." They guarantee the place is legit up to $5000 as long as you meet their specifications, including for how you pay for the accommodation. They say you have to pay by credit card, PayPal, or bank transfer. They won't honor the Rental Guarantee if you pay by wire transfer using Western Union or Money Gram. I don't get the distinction between bank transfer and wire transfer -- or rather how a bank transfer is considered safer for ME? And of course, that's how my property owner wants us to pay! Do I do it? I'm supposed to do this today.
3) The owner has about 5 properties listed under his name (Gerry -- no last name, but his email to me was from McCormack, so I'm assuming his name is Gerry McCormack.) A few of his properties have rave reviews from previous renters, my apartment has none. The reviews look legitimate, but I know he could easily make them up. My thought was... if he were going to make up reviews, why not make them up for all of his properties? Also, he says if you want tickets to sporting events in London, that he can arrange that. Just seems like an odd thing to add if this were not a legitimate rental? He's only been with Home Away since sometime in 2009, so I know it's unlikely, but has anyone out there rented with him before?
Here's the link to the actual apartment:
http://www.holiday-rentals.co.uk/p420861
Here are all of this property owners' rentals:
http://www.holiday-rentals.co.uk/sea...uth+kensington
Please answer ASAP if at all possible. Thank you!!!!
May 26th, 2009, 05:45 AM
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Hi Barbara -
I rented my first apartments ever last month, and I can totally understand your concerns as I was paranoid about being scammed as well.
Homeaway is a legit company.
I also rented apts without any reviews.
Here are a few things I did when researching for apts:
1) Google the owner's name and you may find the same apt listings on other websites, which *may* have some user reviews.
2) Google the owner's phone # which may yield more listings.
3) Some reviewers leave their names and city/town they live in, so you can google their names and see if that person actually exists (eg, they may have a Facebook profile or LinkedIn profile). If they exist, then it's unlikely that their reviews are fake.
In any case, scams are out there, but I honestly think most rentals are legit.
I rented my first apartments ever last month, and I can totally understand your concerns as I was paranoid about being scammed as well.
Homeaway is a legit company.
I also rented apts without any reviews.
Here are a few things I did when researching for apts:
1) Google the owner's name and you may find the same apt listings on other websites, which *may* have some user reviews.
2) Google the owner's phone # which may yield more listings.
3) Some reviewers leave their names and city/town they live in, so you can google their names and see if that person actually exists (eg, they may have a Facebook profile or LinkedIn profile). If they exist, then it's unlikely that their reviews are fake.
In any case, scams are out there, but I honestly think most rentals are legit.
May 26th, 2009, 06:11 AM
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Although I haven't read it, tripadvisor has a lenghty sticky thread about the subject
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic...n_England.html
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic...n_England.html
May 26th, 2009, 07:40 AM
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Thanks, YK and Feldie. I did the Google thing and his name comes up as a developer in England, but I don't think it's him; same with the Facebook entry -- the only one is someone in Ohio. I'm going to check out the thread on Trip Advisor now. Thanks so much for the thoughts.
I did double check with Home Away and they said they DO guarantee bank transfers... just not wire transfers through Money Gram or Western Union. Not sure why they're willing to stick their neck out for bank transfers, since my bank tells me it's essentially the same thing as a Western Union wire transfer. Once the money's gone, it's gone and there's really no recourse!
I did double check with Home Away and they said they DO guarantee bank transfers... just not wire transfers through Money Gram or Western Union. Not sure why they're willing to stick their neck out for bank transfers, since my bank tells me it's essentially the same thing as a Western Union wire transfer. Once the money's gone, it's gone and there's really no recourse!
May 26th, 2009, 07:55 AM
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"Not sure why they're willing to stick their neck out for bank transfers, since my bank tells me it's essentially the same thing as a Western Union wire transfer."
They absolutely aren't the same thing, and your bank is completely talking through its arse. So much so, I really, really, suggest you consider whether it's wise to trust your money to them.
When your bank wire makes a transfer, it goes to a specific bank account, and both banks have all kinds of information about you and the payee. If one of you is trying some kind of ripoff, there's a high likelihood the payee might be traced. No certainty - but a likelihoo
Pay by Moneygram, and all the payee needs to do is show some identification (often to a clerk in a travel agency), and then go off with the money in his pocket. If the property doesn't exist -or if there's any other problem - he's untraceable. Certainly for Western Union, there's no requirement for the payee to show any proof of address, and in a country like Britain, where there's no culture of "standard" means of identification, WU and Moneygram are the perfect tools for con merchants.
They absolutely aren't the same thing, and your bank is completely talking through its arse. So much so, I really, really, suggest you consider whether it's wise to trust your money to them.
When your bank wire makes a transfer, it goes to a specific bank account, and both banks have all kinds of information about you and the payee. If one of you is trying some kind of ripoff, there's a high likelihood the payee might be traced. No certainty - but a likelihoo
Pay by Moneygram, and all the payee needs to do is show some identification (often to a clerk in a travel agency), and then go off with the money in his pocket. If the property doesn't exist -or if there's any other problem - he's untraceable. Certainly for Western Union, there's no requirement for the payee to show any proof of address, and in a country like Britain, where there's no culture of "standard" means of identification, WU and Moneygram are the perfect tools for con merchants.
May 26th, 2009, 08:00 AM
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If HomeAway guarantees a bank to bank transfer, I would feel confident of getting my money back should anything go wrong.
The flat looks newly refurbished--maybe first year it has been let, therefore no reviews?
The flat looks newly refurbished--maybe first year it has been let, therefore no reviews?
May 26th, 2009, 08:22 AM
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Thanks again for both of your replies.
I actually called both of the banks I deal with and they told me the same thing. Not that a bank transfer is EXACTLY the same as a Western Union transfer, but that it's still a wire transfer of money. These were local banks, so maybe international wire transfers are something they don't do on a regular basis, but their basic point was that the bank transfer did not seem any safer FOR ME than a Western Union transfer. So Flanneruk, do you think the fact that it's traceable is the major reason Home Away would guarantee monies paid through bank transfer, but not other wire transfers?
I actually called both of the banks I deal with and they told me the same thing. Not that a bank transfer is EXACTLY the same as a Western Union transfer, but that it's still a wire transfer of money. These were local banks, so maybe international wire transfers are something they don't do on a regular basis, but their basic point was that the bank transfer did not seem any safer FOR ME than a Western Union transfer. So Flanneruk, do you think the fact that it's traceable is the major reason Home Away would guarantee monies paid through bank transfer, but not other wire transfers?
May 26th, 2009, 08:56 AM
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I think what flanner was saying, is that for bank transfer, the money goes from your bank account to the owner's bank account. Therefore, the owner has to be a real person with a real account with his/her bank.
OTOH, for wire transfer with Western Union, as long as John Doe has some sort of ID saying his name is John Doe, he can get the money.
Therefore, one can argue that bank-to-bank transfers are less likely to be scams.
OTOH, for wire transfer with Western Union, as long as John Doe has some sort of ID saying his name is John Doe, he can get the money.
Therefore, one can argue that bank-to-bank transfers are less likely to be scams.
May 26th, 2009, 09:02 AM
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Yes, they are both electronic international wire transfers of money, but the point is that if you do a bank-to-bank wire transfer it's guaranteed to go into the account of the recipient you want it to. With Western Union and such it doesn't go into an account. It waits there until the recipient goes to pick it up, and someone with a fake ID can get hold of your transfer. It is MUCH more secure FOR YOU to do a bank-to-bank transfer and your banks don't seem to know what they're talking about (which IME isn't all that unusual). And yes, the traceability issue is no doubt why Home Away won't guarantee anything but a bank-to-bank transfer.
May 26th, 2009, 09:26 AM
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"Not sure why they're willing to stick their neck out for bank transfers, since my bank tells me it's essentially the same thing as a Western Union wire transfer".
I suggest you consider another bank.
I suggest you consider another bank.
May 26th, 2009, 09:31 AM
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I have used holiday-rentals many times. Not one complaint. That said, what if I say you are not getting scammend and you are....? How much are you risking? a bank-to-bank transfer is less risky, but there is a "leap of faith" no matter what....
May 26th, 2009, 10:20 AM
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RIght, I know it's a risk and we've done this (apartment rentals) for years now without a problem, but I've always been able to pay with a credit card in the past. It's this bank transfer that's making me so uncomfortable!
We called Holiday-Rentals who said the property owner has only been with them for a few months. They offered to check into the property, to the degree that they can, and get back to us tomorrow. But they basically said they don't check out (in person) any of the places that are listed, so it is a bit of an honor system.
The biggest problem is that London is PACKED that week because of Wimbledon and the Hard Rock Calling festival. So do I give up on this place and begin another very time-consuming effort at finding an available apartment (good luck!) or do I cross my fingers and hope for the best... as Viajero2 said, "leap of faith." (And we have kids and grandmoms involved, so it becomes even more complicated!) I know nobody has "the answer," but everyone's advice so far has helped a lot. Thank you!
We called Holiday-Rentals who said the property owner has only been with them for a few months. They offered to check into the property, to the degree that they can, and get back to us tomorrow. But they basically said they don't check out (in person) any of the places that are listed, so it is a bit of an honor system.
The biggest problem is that London is PACKED that week because of Wimbledon and the Hard Rock Calling festival. So do I give up on this place and begin another very time-consuming effort at finding an available apartment (good luck!) or do I cross my fingers and hope for the best... as Viajero2 said, "leap of faith." (And we have kids and grandmoms involved, so it becomes even more complicated!) I know nobody has "the answer," but everyone's advice so far has helped a lot. Thank you!
May 26th, 2009, 11:28 AM
#14
I know just how you feel. We have rented a few apartments before and unless it's through a reputable company, you just don't know for sure what you're getting.
We rented an apartment in London for a week over Christmas a few years ago and a few weeks before we were due to arrive, we received an email saying the apartment we had booked months before was no longer available. The excuse given sounded very fishy to me. They offered another apartment which we accepted (I felt like I had no choice with 3 weeks left to go before Christmas).
We ended up at the second apartment for about 24 hours and spent most of that time on the phone to the agency. It was lower ground floor, which I hate because of the lack of light and there were problems we just weren't happy with. Someone from the agency came around that first day to fix the TV when we had gone out and left the window open with a TV antenna sticking out of it. All our belongings were in the apartment and being lower ground floor, anyone could have got in through the window. That was the final straw and the agency did move us to another apartment which was good. We could really have lived without all the hassle though.
Anyway, this is a long winded way of saying check if the apartment is lower ground floor, if you think that will bother you. The pictures do not show anything clearly outside which makes me wonder.
Also be prepared for it to not be exactly what you want or expect. That way, when it's all wonderful, think how happy you'll feel!
Kay
Just thought you could check on www.slowtrav.com for any reviews of this chap's other apartments and check him out that way. Or you could phone him, it looks like his number on the website is a mobile.
We rented an apartment in London for a week over Christmas a few years ago and a few weeks before we were due to arrive, we received an email saying the apartment we had booked months before was no longer available. The excuse given sounded very fishy to me. They offered another apartment which we accepted (I felt like I had no choice with 3 weeks left to go before Christmas).
We ended up at the second apartment for about 24 hours and spent most of that time on the phone to the agency. It was lower ground floor, which I hate because of the lack of light and there were problems we just weren't happy with. Someone from the agency came around that first day to fix the TV when we had gone out and left the window open with a TV antenna sticking out of it. All our belongings were in the apartment and being lower ground floor, anyone could have got in through the window. That was the final straw and the agency did move us to another apartment which was good. We could really have lived without all the hassle though.
Anyway, this is a long winded way of saying check if the apartment is lower ground floor, if you think that will bother you. The pictures do not show anything clearly outside which makes me wonder.
Also be prepared for it to not be exactly what you want or expect. That way, when it's all wonderful, think how happy you'll feel!
Kay
Just thought you could check on www.slowtrav.com for any reviews of this chap's other apartments and check him out that way. Or you could phone him, it looks like his number on the website is a mobile.
May 23rd, 2011, 03:46 AM
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Hi Barbara,
Sorry to resurrect this post. Just wondering if you ended up renting with Gerry McCormack as I also come across one of his properties on the holiday rental website.
I spoke to Gerry on the phone but still I would like to establish that he is legit from a former renter point of view.
Hope to hear from you.
Many thanks
Yen
Sorry to resurrect this post. Just wondering if you ended up renting with Gerry McCormack as I also come across one of his properties on the holiday rental website.
I spoke to Gerry on the phone but still I would like to establish that he is legit from a former renter point of view.
Hope to hear from you.
Many thanks
Yen
May 23rd, 2011, 06:43 AM
#16
In support of Flanner; part of the problem in the advice you have been given is that the smaller US banks don't do much international business so their views are limited by inexperience and they probably don't even have enough experience to be able to think about the security offered to their clients. It is more usual in europe to do the bank transfer not the wire transfer (which looks very old fashioned and insecure to Europeans, it is the sort of thing they do in the back streets of the 3rd world)). Hope that helps
May 23rd, 2011, 10:57 PM
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I've used Homeaway in Lisbon and couldn't have met a nicer property owner. She met us when we arrived at the apartment and then again to return our security deposit when we were leaving. She had the apartment completely decked out with comfortable furnishings that looked like she lived there and was expecting personal guests. Was a terrific experience.
If given the choice, I prefer to pay the deposit via Paypal because of the bank fees. Many property owners will require you to pay their bank fee in addition to the one your bank charges you. But you go with the property owner's procedures.
If given the choice, I prefer to pay the deposit via Paypal because of the bank fees. Many property owners will require you to pay their bank fee in addition to the one your bank charges you. But you go with the property owner's procedures.
May 24th, 2011, 12:13 AM
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I have rented over 50 properties around the world over the years. We just don't like hotels.
We have used HomeAway (VRBO) 4 times and been let down by the owners twice (badly in both cases). Our contact with HomeAway was actively pro-landlord.
HomeAway is simply an advertising site which does not vet clients or properties. The only control system they have is to reject landlords once clients have complained. This wasn't much recourse in our cases as we are busy and two rentals which severely detratced from our trips is difficult to compensate.
We now only use local agents with a good track record. They will usually physcially check the properties and landlords. They usually take credit cards.
I think we came to the conclusion : "we would we send a complete stranger large amounts of cash based on pretty pictures posted on the internet".
We have used HomeAway (VRBO) 4 times and been let down by the owners twice (badly in both cases). Our contact with HomeAway was actively pro-landlord.
HomeAway is simply an advertising site which does not vet clients or properties. The only control system they have is to reject landlords once clients have complained. This wasn't much recourse in our cases as we are busy and two rentals which severely detratced from our trips is difficult to compensate.
We now only use local agents with a good track record. They will usually physcially check the properties and landlords. They usually take credit cards.
I think we came to the conclusion : "we would we send a complete stranger large amounts of cash based on pretty pictures posted on the internet".
May 24th, 2011, 08:34 AM
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They are totally unrelated and reflect the fact that HomeAway do no pre-checks on landlords. One rental in The Bahamas used photographs that appeared to be out of Conde Naste. Sure enough the beach was incredible but the property was ready to fall down and wasn't safe.
The second was on Mallorca (Spain) when the property again looked great. Only problem was that we were renting the farmhouse next to the owners main house. The owner included photographs of his mansion on HomeAway not the small, unfinished farmhouse. We clearly were suprised.
We are currently searching for a place in Beaufort, SC. it is going to be difficult as it would appear that many of the landlords in taht area use VRBO. What also does seem strange is that very few of the properties we researched 18 months ago seem to be still advertising on VRBO. I saved them in our favourites but the ads have been closed down.
Put simply with HomeAway's model, you have to trust the landlord (a total stranger) to be honest. With a local agent at least, they as a third party have a stake in the transaction.
The second was on Mallorca (Spain) when the property again looked great. Only problem was that we were renting the farmhouse next to the owners main house. The owner included photographs of his mansion on HomeAway not the small, unfinished farmhouse. We clearly were suprised.
We are currently searching for a place in Beaufort, SC. it is going to be difficult as it would appear that many of the landlords in taht area use VRBO. What also does seem strange is that very few of the properties we researched 18 months ago seem to be still advertising on VRBO. I saved them in our favourites but the ads have been closed down.
Put simply with HomeAway's model, you have to trust the landlord (a total stranger) to be honest. With a local agent at least, they as a third party have a stake in the transaction.
