I am putting together my itinerary for Bavaria in late May 2005. Does anyone have any suggestions/experiences of towns, vistas, sights on or slightly off the alpine road between Berchtesgaden and Garmisch. Driving times and specific directions would be appreciated. Thanks

You might be well-advised to purchase the German Shell Atlas called "Strassen und Reisen", as it gives very detailed information for someone touring the German-speaking countries and the Alps. It shows on-road and just off-road scenic views via a kind of red star-burst pattern - the more radiating lines the wider the panorama; a green stripe along a road shows that that road has great scenery on the side where the stripe is; it shows off-road sights like castles and the like, and ice-caves, lakes and other natural features, and the roads leading to them. Distances are clearly marked of course - in your case you will have a total journey of some 200km (around four hours driving in Alpine country), depending on what route you take.

I have the 2001/2 edition, and I can't imagine much has changed from then. You can buy this atlas in most book stores and magazine stands (e.g. at railway stations or airports)

Working from the maps on pp 70 and 71 and using the criteria I mentioned above, I would say a very scenic route to follow would be this (numbers in brackets are road numbers):

Berchtesgaden - (305) - Reit im Winkl -(305) - Marquartstein - (307) - Niederachen -(172) - Ebbs. Here you cross the autobahn and get onto the little road going south past Kiefersfelden and then west finishing up at Bayrischzell. You are now back on the (307), which you follow all the way through to Vorderriss. My atlas shows a minor road taking you from here to meet the main road down to Garmisch. But if you have time you could do a interesting loop via the (13) to Bad Tölz, and then come down on the (E533) and the (20) to Garmisch, an extra hour's driving.

Post any further questions here.

Harzer

Harzer,

Thanks for the detailed response. I looked up the Strassen und Reisen map you referenced on Amazon. Its published by Mairs Geographischer Verlag and the most recent map was from 1998/99. It cost $102! Is this the correct map? If so, I may just go to a Barnes & Noble and use it as a reference guide.

Can you suggest a nice hotel or B&B along the alpine route that I could overnight at. Thanks again.

My copy of the atlas is the soft-cover version and should not cost more than 15 Euros ($20) at a bookstore in Germany.

I don't use hotels any more so I can't recommend one from experience. But a nice place to stay overnight in halfway along your route is Bayrischzell.

I have checked the Net and found there are seven hotels there, two of them three-star, the others somewhat cheaper. You can look up
<www bayrischzell.de> for their names.

Harzer

Harzer's suggested routing through Reit im Winkel, Bad Toelz is a very good one. You could depart from it a bit by going from Bad Toelz west on the B-472 as far as the Munich- Garmisch Autobahn (A-95). Take it south to the Murnau exit (7km). Then head to Bad Kohlgrub on an unnumbered road (it's a good road, I have driven it). You will intersect with the B-23 (14km). Go north on the B-23 as far as Echelsbacher Bruecke (Bridge)(7km). There turn west on another unnumbered road toward Steingaden (10km). About halfway toward S. is the turnoff for the Wieskirche (church in the meadows). It is a beautiful abbey-type church in true Bavarian baroque and, as the name suggests, virtually in the meadows, with mountains in the background.

From Steingaden turn south on the B-17 to Fuessen (34km). Fuessen is the location of Neuschwanstein castle (the original, not Disney's) of King Ludwig II.

From Fuessen, head south on the B-314 toward Leermoos. In Leermoos turn east on the Austrian B-187/German B-23 to Garmisch. This road goes along the Zupspitz massif, Germany's highest mountain. Fuessen to Garmisch about 60km. Of course if you can do this trip in 2 days, this would give you more time for sightseeing,including Neuschwanstein.

There is another route which is more alpine, but again good roads.

Berchtesgaden on the B-305 (Deutsche Alpenstrasse/German Alpine highway) as suggested by Harzer, but this time, at Schneizlreuth you continue straight instead of the right turn of the B-305.

Take the German B-21/Austrian B-312 to Lofer and either continue on the B-312 to Sankt Johann and Woergl (61km from Schneizlreuth) This route takes you past the Zahme Kaiser mountain massif.

As for the route past Woergl, see below.

My favorite: At Lofer turn south on the B-311 to Saalfelden and Zell am See (41km) Stop there and have lunch on the lake terrace of the big hotel on the lake (can't remember the name, but you can't miss it). From there you have a gorgeous view of the lake and the Grossglockner massif.If you have time, take the cable car up the Schmittenhoehe. On a clear day you will have a great view of the Austrian and some Italian alps.

From Zell am See head south to the B-B168 and turn west to the B-161 and Pass Thurn and Kitzbuehel (60km from Zell.) From Kitzbuehel take the B-170 west to Woergl.

From Woergl take the Autobahn A-12 past Innsbruck, to the Zirl exit (70km). (Be sure you have an Austrian Autobahn user's decal!) At Zirl, take the Austrian B-177/German B-2 to Garmisch, via Mittenwald (50km).

In all your travels figure and average 50km/h on B roads, 80km/h on Autobahns.

Now, as to maps. I think with the info. you have and got from Harzer, you should be able to rough out the trip. You then can buy a more detailed map upon your arrival at the airport. In fact, the rental companies usually give you one that isn't too bad. But the Shell, Michelin or ESSO maps give you greater detail and are less expensive than they are here in the US.

Now, I have a question: I have tried several times to post an inquiry on the board, but somehow have always failed. How did you get on the board?

treplow, don't give up trying to start a new thread on Fodor's. It has been difficult at times to post a reply to a thread or to start a new thread.

Assuming you have clicked on "Post A New Message" in the upper left hand corner and nothing happens just wait a bit a try again. It gets frustrating at times, but keep trying.