air conditioning
Jul 5th, 2015, 03:11 AM
#22
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ok but Charleston, SC had the humidity element that most of Europe has the good fortune to not have. If Continental Europe was a humid as the US East Coast in Summer, then they would have invented A/C 200 years ago, if not more.
Jul 5th, 2015, 04:07 AM
#23
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There is much more new construction in the US that facilitated adopting air conditioning. It is much harder to retrofit centuries-old European buildings, or to fashion air conditioners to fit into non-standard windows -- or upgrading home electrical systems to handle air conditioners, etc etc.
It has been plenty hot in Italy in summer for as long as anybody can remember, and Italians have excelled in machinery making. The reasons Italians have not adopted air conditioning is not because they don't get overheated in hot humid weather (of which there is plenty).
Also, it is a moot point because Europe has been experiencing more intense heat waves than it did 200 years ago, bringing a lot more misery to its cities (where it formerly was more the custom for people with money to decamp for summer to a cooler house).
A lot of opposition to air conditioning is just ideological (instead of those of us who just get neck problems if we sleep under a lousy downblowing unit in a hotel).
It has been plenty hot in Italy in summer for as long as anybody can remember, and Italians have excelled in machinery making. The reasons Italians have not adopted air conditioning is not because they don't get overheated in hot humid weather (of which there is plenty).
Also, it is a moot point because Europe has been experiencing more intense heat waves than it did 200 years ago, bringing a lot more misery to its cities (where it formerly was more the custom for people with money to decamp for summer to a cooler house).
A lot of opposition to air conditioning is just ideological (instead of those of us who just get neck problems if we sleep under a lousy downblowing unit in a hotel).
Jul 5th, 2015, 04:16 AM
#24
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Added thought:
To quickly see the speciousness of the argument that "we would have invented air conditioning 200 years ago if our climates required it", think about how long it took many northern European areas to get widespread installation of central heating in the cities especially. It was clearly needed in winter time due to freezing temps and constant cold and damp, yet overcoming the difficulties of providing it took time in some areas. Still in many places in Europe the high cost of fuel leaves many people without heat where they work or live.
To quickly see the speciousness of the argument that "we would have invented air conditioning 200 years ago if our climates required it", think about how long it took many northern European areas to get widespread installation of central heating in the cities especially. It was clearly needed in winter time due to freezing temps and constant cold and damp, yet overcoming the difficulties of providing it took time in some areas. Still in many places in Europe the high cost of fuel leaves many people without heat where they work or live.
Jul 5th, 2015, 05:10 AM
#26
"(where it formerly was more the custom for people with money to decamp for summer to a cooler house).
Yes, it was quite a fashion, around the time of Louis XIV."
Nonsense.
Exhibit A: The 1% with multiple houses.
Exhibit B: English aristocracy with country houses. Death duties didn't become a burden until the 20th century. Also the fashion for Brighton in the early 19th century.
Exhibit C: In the reverse (temperature) direction, the English exodus to the south of France, both the Pyrenees and the Riviera, in the winters in the late 19th century.
Also, not in Europe, but there was a significant exodus of well-off Floridians to the North Carolinian mountains during the summers before air-conditioning, and to some extent I think there still is.
While retrofitting European houses with central AC may be difficult and expensive, the neat wall-mounted units you see all across Asia shouldn't be that difficult to install. And ceiling fans would make a big difference too. I have central air, but I don't set it at the temperatures you sometimes encounter in the US (i.e. freezing) and I run fans as well.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that the heat wave will be over before I arrive in Europe in the middle of the month, but I am very glad that most (alas, not all) of my July and August accommodation has AC.
Yes, it was quite a fashion, around the time of Louis XIV."
Nonsense.
Exhibit A: The 1% with multiple houses.
Exhibit B: English aristocracy with country houses. Death duties didn't become a burden until the 20th century. Also the fashion for Brighton in the early 19th century.
Exhibit C: In the reverse (temperature) direction, the English exodus to the south of France, both the Pyrenees and the Riviera, in the winters in the late 19th century.
Also, not in Europe, but there was a significant exodus of well-off Floridians to the North Carolinian mountains during the summers before air-conditioning, and to some extent I think there still is.
While retrofitting European houses with central AC may be difficult and expensive, the neat wall-mounted units you see all across Asia shouldn't be that difficult to install. And ceiling fans would make a big difference too. I have central air, but I don't set it at the temperatures you sometimes encounter in the US (i.e. freezing) and I run fans as well.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that the heat wave will be over before I arrive in Europe in the middle of the month, but I am very glad that most (alas, not all) of my July and August accommodation has AC.
Jul 5th, 2015, 05:13 AM
#27
FWIW, we really liked the Hyatt in Berlin. You get AC and a top floor pool. And you're across the street from an air-conditioned mall. No problems beating the heat there!>>
museums are good for that too. Perhaps that's why we spent so long in them!
I have seen suggestions for hanging wet sheets up at windows to filter the hot air, but never had to try it, thank goodness as I live in an old stone house where in the summer it is often warmer outside the house than in and even in the hottest weather we can find at least one cool room. Cornish builders all had the same idea - long thin houses made of the local stone [granite] with south-facing living rooms and the kitchen at the back, with the shortest side facing west, which is where the wind and rain mostly come from. When we bought this house it leaked like a sieve [windows and roofs] and it's taken us 18 years to make it water-tight - despite last night's deluges, we had no leaks this morning.
Rarely however have we had to deal with temps over 30C though - perhaps twice since we've been here.
museums are good for that too. Perhaps that's why we spent so long in them!
I have seen suggestions for hanging wet sheets up at windows to filter the hot air, but never had to try it, thank goodness as I live in an old stone house where in the summer it is often warmer outside the house than in and even in the hottest weather we can find at least one cool room. Cornish builders all had the same idea - long thin houses made of the local stone [granite] with south-facing living rooms and the kitchen at the back, with the shortest side facing west, which is where the wind and rain mostly come from. When we bought this house it leaked like a sieve [windows and roofs] and it's taken us 18 years to make it water-tight - despite last night's deluges, we had no leaks this morning.
Rarely however have we had to deal with temps over 30C though - perhaps twice since we've been here.
Jul 5th, 2015, 05:25 AM
#29
and it goes without saying that no-one has AC in their houses.
some offices have it - one of the quirks of our local very modern court building is that it has A/C but it's controlled from Bristol, about 200 kms away.
some offices have it - one of the quirks of our local very modern court building is that it has A/C but it's controlled from Bristol, about 200 kms away.
Jul 5th, 2015, 09:53 AM
#30
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Sparkchaser is right about humidy.
My uncle went to the mountains of North Carolina every summer due to breathing problems
His main home was in Charlotte NC.
The summer in Charlotte seemed even worse than Charleston because the air is still and heavy with humidy
In Charleston we get the coastal breeze but we suffer that humidy
My uncle went to the mountains of North Carolina every summer due to breathing problems
His main home was in Charlotte NC.
The summer in Charlotte seemed even worse than Charleston because the air is still and heavy with humidy
In Charleston we get the coastal breeze but we suffer that humidy
Jul 5th, 2015, 09:12 PM
#31
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SaylerT -- lol! Hope you enjoyed your granddad and pops despite their peculiarities! Yup, it does seem ironic to react to higher temps that were caused by poisons in the air by spewing more poisons into the air. Well . . . hopefully factories and other large, polluting industries will find a way to reduce the damage or clean up the damage so that we can continue to live our comfortable lives.
People, we are not talking about Dubai or Miami or Fiji in August. This is northern/western Europe, where you might be uncomfortable for a few days.
And, yes, it really works if you close your shutters or curtains during the day and open your windows/balcony doors at night; it cooled down my place at least 20 deg. cooler than outside. Of course, my apartment was like a small cave during the day, lol, because it was so dark inside.
If a maid opened the curtains in my hotel room . . . s/he would only do it one time, I promise you. And I really can't imagine why one would do that -- presumably s/he isn't an idiot and is dealing with the same high temps & sun problem in his/her own home.
s
People, we are not talking about Dubai or Miami or Fiji in August. This is northern/western Europe, where you might be uncomfortable for a few days.
And, yes, it really works if you close your shutters or curtains during the day and open your windows/balcony doors at night; it cooled down my place at least 20 deg. cooler than outside. Of course, my apartment was like a small cave during the day, lol, because it was so dark inside.
If a maid opened the curtains in my hotel room . . . s/he would only do it one time, I promise you. And I really can't imagine why one would do that -- presumably s/he isn't an idiot and is dealing with the same high temps & sun problem in his/her own home.
s
Jul 5th, 2015, 11:31 PM
#32
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S, I am speaking from experience about the maid opening curtains in my hotel room. Next day it was a different maid. 
And I don't even want to begin explaining again the difference between a small town in the countryside like Garmisch, at the foot of the mountains, and a big, overbuilt city like Berlin ...
And I don't even want to begin explaining again the difference between a small town in the countryside like Garmisch, at the foot of the mountains, and a big, overbuilt city like Berlin ...
Jul 5th, 2015, 11:47 PM
#33
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Ingo, take your concerns to the manager, or the housekeeping staff. Truly, it would only happen one time. Maybe you are too nice . . .
Again, not sure what you think the difference is between a small town and a city. If the temperature is 14 deg, then it's 14 deg. No matter where the heat is coming from (sun or buildings), it's still 14 deg.
s
Again, not sure what you think the difference is between a small town and a city. If the temperature is 14 deg, then it's 14 deg. No matter where the heat is coming from (sun or buildings), it's still 14 deg.
s
Jul 6th, 2015, 03:48 AM
#38
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My husband was there during a heat wave and he said it was very hot. No fan to be found. I have been to Germany in October and it was hot but the windows open made it cool but also noisy so bring a pair of earplugs. Depends on your location. It does cool off at night but make sure you aren't on a main road with noise.
Jul 6th, 2015, 05:15 AM
#39
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>>>"While retrofitting European houses with central AC may be difficult and expensive, the neat wall-mounted units you see all across Asia shouldn't be that difficult to install. "<<<
Yes, but they are a recent invention, and they are being installed all over Italy in recent years. I was responding to the idea that if air conditioning had been needed in Europe it would have been invented 200 years ago. Even 20 years ago, after it was in place elsewhere, it was not easy to adapt within Europe without further modifications.
And to further elaborate on European's behavior in the past during hot weather: Not only did many people who could afford it make a point of spending the hottest months out of the cities in cooler places, it was quite acceptable to close up shop completely for July and August, or to close up for long portions of the afternoon. They slept on the roofs of buildings during heat waves, not in small rooms with one window.
It is just a myth that air conditioning is an unnecessary luxury for travelers in European cities in summer.
Yes, but they are a recent invention, and they are being installed all over Italy in recent years. I was responding to the idea that if air conditioning had been needed in Europe it would have been invented 200 years ago. Even 20 years ago, after it was in place elsewhere, it was not easy to adapt within Europe without further modifications.
And to further elaborate on European's behavior in the past during hot weather: Not only did many people who could afford it make a point of spending the hottest months out of the cities in cooler places, it was quite acceptable to close up shop completely for July and August, or to close up for long portions of the afternoon. They slept on the roofs of buildings during heat waves, not in small rooms with one window.
It is just a myth that air conditioning is an unnecessary luxury for travelers in European cities in summer.
