We are planning our first Turkey trip for the first two weeks of October. We will fly to Istanbul, arriving Friday the 1st in the morning, and be in Istanbul until Thursday the 7th, when we will fly to Izmir, get a car at the airport, and drive to Ephesus, staying overnight somewhere. The next day we will drive to Aphrodisius, Hierapolis and Pamukkale, hopefully staying overnight at the Melrose House Hotel in Pamukkale. Then on Saturday the 9th we will drive toward Cappadocia, and are considering Couchsurfing around Konya. In the morning we will drive to Cappadocia, drop off the car (somewhere?), and stay in Goreme for the nights of the 10-12 (cave hotel?). On Wednesday we will fly from Kayseri back to Istanbul (that's booked), and then in Istanbul until Saturday morning, when we fly home.
I have a million questions, but will start with 4:
1) Hows that sound? Hows our timing?
2) What will the weather be like?
3) I've read mixed reports about driving, but since we are not going to be doing any city driving is there need to worry? (i'm a lousy passenger but my partner mark is a fine driver!)
4) What is the most scenic route to drive given our destinations and schedule?
I will take 30 hrs of intensive Turkish before we go (mostly out of curiousity and a desire to not be utterly mute!)
Any and all recommendations for sites/hotels or pensions/restaurants and art (we are painters) are welcome!!
Thank you!
-Margot

Margot,

I'll comment on a couple of things. First, it sounds like a wonderful trip. We were there in late October last year (almost all the places you're visiting) and the weather was beautiful. My understanding is that it was unusually warm for that late in October, but I would imagine early October would be beautiful.

We drove from Izmir to Selcuk (Ephesus) and it was easy. We drove from Selcuk down to Antalya which was also beautiful and easy. I wouldn't drive in Istanbul, but would highly recommend it outside of the big cities.

We stayed at the Hotel Bella in Selcuk. Our room was small (and our bathroom smaller), but we loved it. They have a rooftop lounge/restaurant that can't be beat. The owners are gracious and despite the fact that we had a car, insisted on driving us to Ephesus and picking us up.

We stayed in Urgup, at the Melekler Evi Cave Hotel. Urgup is smaller than Goreme with a different feel. If I could live at the Melekler Evi, I probably would, but there are nice (cave) hotels in Goreme, too. Cappadocia was amazing, as was the rest of Turkey, actually.

I'm not sure other than at either airport (Kayseri or Nevsehir) where you'll be able to drop off the car. Be sure that you won't want it in Cappadocia before you let go of it, though. We didn't have one there and were fine doing day tours, but if you want to be on your own, it's a large area and you'll want a car.

A number of us have written reports on this thread which, if you haven't read them, I'd advise it. Mine is here; it's long, but you can pick and choose, and others' are more recent. http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-in-turkey.cfm

Anyway, you'll doubtless get lots of valuable information from posters on this thread. Otherchelebi is our resident authority - his advice is gold!

Ask away as you plan, and I hope you'll post when your return.

Ellen

You seem incredibly well-prepared.

The only part i would recommend you reconsider will be Couchsurfing in Konya.

Konya is an islamic fundamentalist bastion, and unless you are very interested in Sufism and Mevlana/Rumi, Konya has very little to offer. Also, driving and finding your way in konya would cause lots of misery.

You can add that one extra day to Selcuk, to visit prienne, miletus, Herakleia, or even the beach at Kusadasi and enjoy it more.

If you want couchsurfing to meet turkish families, do it in Istanbul.

You can do pamukkale-goreme in one day. There is no scenic route, it is all rather dull.

Do not drp off your car untill you get to Kayseri airport to fly to Istanbul. The car will be very helpful in cappadocia because it is a large region and you will need the flexibility that artists desire.

The places you will be visiting are all very touristic and almost everyone will speak English.

Driving in Turkey is easier than driving in Britain (narrow roads) or Spain (tail-gating). There is not too much traffic where you will be driving. Many of the highways will be divided. Just do not expect everyone to follow the official or ethical or common sense rules all the time. Signage is usually good.

Izmir to selcuk/ephesus is straightforward. hotel bella in town is good and has an excellent restaurant but has small rooms. You may consider some place at sirince.

The weather can be scorching hot on the Aegean or cooler and rainy in Istanbul. Cappadocia will be dry and quite cool at night. Take a light hooded windbreaker. Comfortable walking shoes will be required.

istanbul has a very large number of art galleries and the Museum of Modern Art at the docks where cruise ships are tied has a good permanent collection of famous Turkish painters.

If you are bringing supplies, Cappadocia will give you some quaint landscapes and some of the ruins and sarcophagi also make good subjects. You will find ideas from geometric designs to pop to impressionistic landscapes to surrealist shapes and objects, Art noveau buildings to romantic narrow side streets, powerty and ostentatious wealth.

Hi Ellen, we posted at about the same time. Otherwise i would not have repeated your excellent advice. By the way, i hope you got a chance to read my very recent trip report on the Lounge.

The last time i was in Cappadocia was too long ago, so Margot needs your and other recent visitors' views, reports and recommendations.

Thank you ellen and otherchelebi! ellen, i just read your report-- you give such and informed and detailed account, thank you! I have a lot more reading to do. I'm like you, I love the preparation (reading Turkish history now). And, remarkably, it is quite a small world, i was born and raised in rochester (left as soon as i could though . I will be back with more questions after i follow up with the information you have provided! Your advice about Cappadocia and guided tours is interesting. I have heard great reports, but i am torn. we end up lingering a lot, i like to stop and draw, mark likes to climb off the track, i'm not sure what balance to strike between a really informative experience and an uninhibited one.
otherchelebi, thanks for your advice. i do know about konya, which was exactly why i was figuring couchsurfing. there arent many hosts available (3 to be exact), but one guy sounded great. we were somewhat nervous about being unmarried (but 15 years together!) atheists who like a beer or two after a long day of looking. we are totally respectful of everyones traditions, spend A LOT of time looking at art in religious venues, love the call to prayer, etc. Pretty much, i'm ok you're ok. When we travelled to india i was so intent on being respectful that i ended up dressing like some sort of medieval supplicant, head to toe covered and utterly unnecessary! Speaking of which, i read a little about suggested dress and am wondering if skinny jeans are inappropriate? But back to the drive--we had decided to break up the drive to goreme with a drive through the lake country. Is it an uninteresting landscape? And thank you both for encouraging words about driving. We live in the land of the predator yellow cab (new york city) but dont relish that insanity, good to hear that Turkey is drivable!

Thank you both for your help!!

We stayed in Konya on our way from Goreme to Antalya. This was the one city that the women with us put on longer pants and less revealing tops. But we had no issues. We stayed at a hotel in the centre

Be sure to take a hot-air balloon ride in Cappadocia. It is terrific!

It appears that you will drop the car off in Cappadocia as soon as you get there. I would not do that. Driving between the various sites will save you considerable amount of time.

You might want to read my trip report which covers pretty much the same ground. Just click on my name to find it.

For our first three years in saudi Arabia, ages ago, my wife never wore the black abaya or covered her hair until it became absolutely mandatory.

I see no reason why you should masquerade as a moslem fundamentalist when ther are no rules or even social requirements to do so. Turkey is supposedly still a secular country. As far as i know, covering up women is a chauvinistic decision of the islamic male rather than a requirement of the religion.

The lake region, on your way to Konya is OK but not too exceptional. You will be drivng through some gorges and mountain passes and green ares before you get to the Konya desert.

If you have the time the next day, consider taking a circuituous route to Cappadocia and visit Taskale and the Manazan caves to the East-Southeast of Karaman. It is an interesting area and sight which may give you some ideas different than the highly frequented Cappadocia sights.

Margot, I'm thinking about your comment about wanting some time to draw and I understand your hesitation about taking a tour. I'm not an artist in any sense of the word, but thinking back on all three days, there were times where we were hiking or moving at a clip where you wouldn't be able to draw. But there was actually plenty of down time, too. I remember at the Goreme Open Air Museum, sitting and taking in the amazing scenery while others were prowling. Also at Ihlara Canyon, another incredible venue. You might want to take one guided tour, then spend some time on your own. The information we got from our guide was invaluable. We used Rock Valley in Urgup and we loved them. This is their site: http://www.rockvalleytravel.com/

I think skinny jeans are fine. Istanbul is very western Europe in some ways (and not in others, which is one reason we loved it), but anything goes there. The owner of our cave hotel in Urgup wore them every day. Just be considerate of where your are, which it sounds like you will be. As I think someone else might have said, wear comfortable shoes.

otherchelebi, you and I did say some of the same things - although as everyone knows, you are the hands-down expert on this forum!

Ellen, if we say the same things as we both admit, then we are bot as expert as each other, which really does not mean much.

I am a few years older than you, however i am getting to the age where it stops meaning wisdom.

Clearly I am very fortunate to hear from 2 experts! Ellen, thanks for giving my quandary consideration. I will check out your guides. Jurys still out, but you make a lot of sense. The Ihlara Canyon looks incredible, and for that alone we are keeping the car until we leave. We've made a reservation to stay at the Kale Konak in Uçhisar, and also the Hotel Alp in Istanbul. We have decided to stay 2 nights in Pamukkale so we dont have to rush through Ephesus-Aphrodisius-Hierapolis...and from there we will drive straight through to Uçhisar. Long day, but we'll get an early start. and thanks to both of you for sage attire advice--otherchelebi I am with you on the patriarchal imposition of conservative dress for women, but those kinds of disagreements for me are always trumped by my (probably excessive) desire to be a good guest. But sounds like this good guest gets to wear her jeans.

I'm not an expert, but I would urge you to think again before spending two nights in Pamukkale. Aphrodisias was one of the high points of our trip, but we found the other sights much less satisfying. You might want to click on my name and read the pertinent section of my trip report.

You mention driving. The roads outside of Istanbul were quite good, in some cases better than at home. in the East (Cappadocia) the roads in places were a little less perfect, but not an issue either way.

Driving along coast we found we did not move fast at all, so our point to point travel times were longer. Roads were quite windy, going up and down mountains on the way. Beautiful scenery as you drive along.

No issue that I can remember about signage.

Petrol is expensive!

Driving in Istanbul itself is a unique experience. You won't be doing this, so no stress about this.

We are one week behind you.

We will be staying an extra day in Cappadocia to paint and to shoot a few shots. We are both members of an art coop.

My wife always carries a sock with hole in the toes which she wears over her wrist. It is wonderful for cleaning your brush while painting.

Since we are behind you, we cannot offer any advice, but to say the people on this board are helpful, generous, and accurate.

I wished that I could draw when I was in Cappadocia. You and Adu and his wife will have a wonderful opportunity in C.

I hope you all are planning on taking the hot air balloon ride, not much chance of drawing, but you would get great photos.

Fra_Diavolo
I read your great report, thank you. I get what you mean about Pamukkale, but we dont intend to get there until the end of the day (that will begin with ephesus and environs) and then see aphrodisius etc the next day. the more I look, the more I think its nearly impossible to make a mistake.
Aduchamp1: love the sock idea! I dont travel with paint, just drawing supplies. Have a wonderful trip. I see you are a fellow new yorker-- have you seen the Starn twin installation on the roof of the Met? Not to be missed.
Luisah, I contemplated the balloons as a surprise for my partners 50th, but when i sort of hinted, he figured he'd rather be hoofing it in the landscape. and wow, its soooo expensive! But thank you for the suggestion.

Just my 2 cents.
Your schedule seems fine. Your time in istanbul is ok. Aphrodisias, Pamukkale and Hierapolis with a 1-night stay is ok.
Konya... As OC said, is an islamic fundamentalist bastion. We were there last year for 2 nights. We stayed in the Dedeman hotel, which is the only 'international' 5-star hotel, which is not in our habits, but we were very happy we did. We were a group of 6: 4 adults and 2 kids. We enjoyed our visits to the Mevlana tekke and the tile museum in the town center. We were tense when walking in town. I know Turkey fairly well and have never felt this strain. I am glad I have been in Konya, and glad to have left...
And yes, trafic and finding directions is difficult and good restaurants... well, I haven't found any.

Paumukkale to Cappadoce in 1 day will be rough, but is feasable, it will be a 10-11 hours drive, some 700km. If you think it is too much, we stayed last year on lake Egirdir, on the peninsula in ''GOL PANSİYON ''. The owners name is Ahmet Davras PH: +090 0246 311 2370. I must have the email address at home somewhere. I wouldn't know of any place to stay once you're past Konya.
Cappadocia; I would stay in Urgup. Have a look at http://www.esbelli.com/
It is necessary to keep the car till Kayseri; you would be stuck in Urgup and in trouble to get to Kayseri airport.

Traffic is OK, you should always be careful and anticipate, but you will mostly have the roads for yourselves, esp. in october. We did some 3500km last year without any problem.


Have a nice trip.

thanks baldrick. we're already reserved in uçhisar-- what did you prefer about urgup? also, any opinions about diesel vs non-diesel (which i think there must be a word for but i dont know it!)?

MarkandMargot

No, we have not seen the installation on the roof of the Met, but my wife is a member, so we might go next week.

She is a watercolorist and is very economical about carrying her stuff.

Before we go to Turkey we will go to the Turkish Kitchen on Third Ave and ask if they have restaurant recommendations. I do not know how genuine the food is at the Turkish Kitchen but it certainly tastes fine and they have great luncheon values.

Luiah

I am bit of an acrophobic and while I am sure the vantage point will be breathtaking, so will my fear.