I'm not sure why do the Contiki tour, if you are then going to travel on your own. An organized tour isn't going to help you develop your own travel skills because everything is done for you.

You could take that exact itinerary as a guidline: Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Italy, Vatican City, Switzerland and France... would be a good (yet still fast-paced) itinerary for a 4 week trip.

I have traveled independently and also gone on many tours with three different tour companies. However, I recommend you not travel with Contiki on this extremely fast-paced tour. I can highly recommend Rick Steves tours and somewhat recommend Gate1 tours. I feel that your money could be better spent on something different that you would enjoy so much more.

You have received a lot of good advice on this forum. I do feel that you might benefit from taking a tour, but not this particular trip with Contiki.

You have some good advice here. Do you really want to sit on a bus half the day? Do they have people out drinking at night then you have to be on the bus at 6:30 AM? That is how some fast paced tours work - ask them about that.

If you can make it to Venice at the end, the Carnivale is in late February next year. Its a pretty fun party.

4 weeks - 12 day(Contiki) = 16 days
Climate prefers southen Spain. http://www.weatherbase.com/weather/c...=ES&name=Spain
One example:
London 3 /just after Contiki
Madrid 3 /may include 1 day in Toledo
Sevilla 2
Cordoba 2
Granada 3 /1 day ski in Sierra Nevada
Barcelona 3 /go back to Au
Make your own with http://www.spain.info/

A slightly random list -
Berlin and Munich are the most fun places in Germany, plenty of clubbing etc. as well as loads of cultural things such as museums, art galleries and very different architecture to Oz. Berlin is a bit cheaper but definitely colder than Munich (minus temperatures most of the time in Jan-Feb).

Plenty of under 25s travel on overnight trains which saves the price of a night's accommodation - definitely get a Eurail pass, you'll see a lot more travelling that way than flying. And definitely stay in hostels where you can, they're a whole lot cheaper and you'll meet other people also travelling. That also applies to London, where hotels are really expensive. The idea of getting your hotel to call the next one to stay in is pretty irrelevant these days. All hostels have PCs, quite a few have free wifi.

Lonely Planet and Rough Guide are the best series of guide books for the kind of trip you seem to be planning. Lonely Planet was started in Oz, Rough Guide in the UK. They cover pretty much the same countries but I find that Lonely Planet are still stronger on travel in Asia, Rough Guide in Europe, but not a lot to choose between them. When it comes to a particular country or region, pick whichever publisher has the more recent guide as the info will be more up to date. These kind of guides give you plenty of tips on travelling solo and with groups, recommendations on accommodation, food, etc.

Skiing/snowboarding for just one day doesn't make sense if you've not done either sport before, you really need at least 5 days. There are plenty of inclusive trips from London (easier for you, the group will be English speakers, likewise the ski/snowboard instructor, accommodation will be more hostel style, as part of a group your costs will be lower, and someone else is making sure that everything runs smoothly/takes care of possible problems). Switzerland is very expensive, France and Austria a fair bit cheaper and about the same price, with French resorts tend towards modern architecture, Austrian more "chocolate box" type wooden or wooden faced buildings.

The point made above about shorter daylight hours the further north you go is very relevant. In Stockholm for example, there are only 6-7 hours of daylight in January, whereas in London/Paris there are about 7-8, in Barcelona around 9-10.

Alternating travel with a group and striking out on your own makes sense for first-time travellers on a longish trip, particularly if you don't have any European language skills apart from English. I wouldn't knock Contiki but I would check out what other companies are offering similar trips in Jan/Feb. Probably not many, but you may find something that suits you better once you've done some more research and decided on the places you want to visit.
And you don't have to return to stick with the group to the very end of the trip. For example you might decide to go skiing in Austria, then instead of travelling with the group back to London you split up with them in Innsbruck and catch the train to Vienna (also a great city) to explore there and Budapest, which isn't that far away. That might save you a fair bit of time and money.

And finally, don't forget check if there is anything you can do/see/visit that is particularly relevant to your studies on your travels. Have fun and good luck.

No one has said that Madrid can be really cold in winter. Colder than Amsterdam. Don't assume Italy and Spain will be warm.
You should not be put off by winter. Places will be less crowded, though some sites, particularly in more touristy areas of southern Europe could be closed.
Museums are always warm, as are pubs, cafés and nightclubs.
Think hard about what you really want to see. Don't try to see it all, there will be other trips for you. Once you have a list of what you really want to see/do then start planning how to do it, and cross off things you can't manage this trip.
Enjoy yourself, both in planning and on the trip.
Just remember it is a vacation, not a death march.

Plenty of under 25s travel on overnight trains which saves the price of a night's accommodation - definitely get a Eurail pass>

Yes lot of overnight trains - relocate practically from one end of Europe to the other and save a night;s accommodation cost to boot. If going to Greece Eurailpasses - including Youth Eurailpasses give free deck passage from several Italian ports to Corfu (young person's mecca for snorkeling, swimming, partying, etc) and Patras for buses or trains to Athens.

If buying a flexipass keep in mind the 7 pm rule for overnight trains.

After seeing that Con Tiki tour I reco VERY strongly against it. You will be spending endless hours sitting on a bus with a stop for an hour to see a sight and another stop for an hour for lunch - and some "shopping: that will be a waste of time. You are generally required to be on the bus by 7:30 am - with packed bags outside yoor door by 7 am - and will pull into your hotel for the night at about 7 pm - time to stretch your legs for a few minutes before dinner. And hotels are likely to be at the end of hell and gone - so difficult to get to areas with any activity for after dinner. I think you .will find it a major waste of time and money.

Much better to either do it yourself - or pick another tour which is active - although not just for under 35s - with a slower pace that means yuo have actually time to see something of the cities you ave "covered".

Suggest you look at Let;s Go Student Guides for info from people in your age group and budget category.

I once considered taking the Venice Simplon Orient Express from Paris to Venice. I scrapped the idea when I discovered it was an overnight train that crossed the Alps in the dark. What would be the point of that?

While the sleepers were not a problem, not seeing the scenery, which is all a train really has to offer the traveller after all, would be pointless.

Taking an overnight train to save money at the expense of missing the scenery may not matter if crossing the plains of N. America but missing the scenery in many parts of Europe is a whole other matter.

Yes, that tour is insane. I would suggest a week in each of London, Paris, Rome and Barcelona/Madrid. You can do daytrips from each of those cities and save money by renting an apartment.

The only reason why I would not spend a week in London and Paris is the cost. If they could afford it great.

One the other hand, they are young and will return to Europe and to learn the different charms of Spain is a more than wonderful way for a first trip to Europe.

Most tourists do not spend enough time in the different regions of Spain to savor the variety. This would be an excellent chance to learn about a country in depth rather than a cursory glance.

The two commonest mistakes travellers make are packing too much and trying to see/do too much in too little time BigAl. That's never going to change.

Most don't spend enough time anywhere, not just in Spain. But we are talking to a 20 year old here, not someone into 'slow travel' and immersing himself into local culture. I'm sure the primary motivation is to have fun. If a little knowledge is absorbed along the way that's fine but it isn't the primary goal. It is the OP's trip and the OP's motivation is what should drive it, not what you or I think would be better use of time.

You can lead a horse to water.................

Understood Improviser and I agree. In real life and here I rarely offer advice unless asked. Here the point is for people to ask and others to answer. Here people can also benefit from the experience and opinions of others and as in real life they can listen or not.

There are many here who are well-travelled and many gracious nationals who generously give of their time and knowledge. There are also those make a career out of one two week visit. Part of being successful at anything is filtering out the good advice from the bad.

First time travellers usually have a combination of excitement and trepidation and that often overwhelms rational advice.

I am taking a short trip planning break, so I'll give you my two-cents worth:

1) Take a short (weekend) trip with your friend before (months) you sign on for the month long trek.
This way you can work out any surprises, issues, habits, etc. before you get on the plane.

2) Discuss social and personal topics. How do you feel about sharing the room with a guy/girl that he/she may bring *home*?
I could care less what your gender is, my two-cents goes for everybody who travels.

3) That said, set some codes/rules/ etc. Agree on these things.

4) It may be a bit late, but have you sat down with your friend and asked him/her where she/he would like to go? Do that and then do it again and again. Travel, travelers, and travel plans are fluid.

5)Get a budget and then double it. Discuss money. This topic, not discussed, can ruin a friendship especially while travelling.

Finally, group travel, as you explain it, does not help you or anyone ease into traveling by yourselves. Does that make sense?

Group travel, be it contiki, trafalgar, globus, etc., will make you want to stab somebody--yourself included.

I know many 20 year olds and younger who took their first trip without their parents at your age. If you feel more comfy this way, then go for it. Just know you have a few firsts going on at the same time with your proposed trip. Taking care of items 1-5 above will help you now and later.

Happy Travels,
Oaktown Traveler

Just a caveat. Everyone (except me, maybe) says Paris is "expensive". YES, it can be, but you can find GREAT budget things there--I think almost more than any other great European (or US) city. So don't be put off, but plan carefully. Same is true for other large cities.

Thank you everyone for their advice and itinieries, it obviously has been really helpful and planning out the trip has become a lot easier and clearer.

For all of you who have said it looks like we're wanting to take on too much, you're definitely right. With travelling for the first time especially all the way on the other side of the world I am obviously guilty of wanting to take on too much in too little time. So I will definitely keep that in mind.

Also, I completely understand where those who have said doing a Contiki tour won't develop any skills or ease you into anything are coming from, but for me it's not necessarily developing any skills, it's more so being able to experience the gist of travelling and being in another country before I do it on my own because I feel like I know absolutely nothing about travelling and no matter how much research I do, when I get there I'll be like a fish out of water and being with a tour group is in a way I suppose a guiding hand (a bit naive of me I know). But... with that being said and with all your recommendations and advice, Contiki/tour groups is not more of an option than it was before - especially with the long bus rides and time challenging itineraries being a negative from the get go. From here on I think that I'll just need to continue to research and as I have overwhelmingly received amazing advice, will take everyones along the way and in mind to see what's best for myself and my friend and come to a good plan. It'll be a long process but hey, good things take time right?

Hi mags... I'm so glad that you've reconsidered that tour. It's more ground than we recently covered in our recent three week trip and our teens were exhausted with the pace.

I first went to Europe with my best friend when I was 22 years old. By the time we got back home, we weren't speaking to each other. I second or third previous posts about going someplace else FIRST and figuring out traveling styles and setting ground rules. I'm much more of a "lingering in a cafe" kind of person, while she was a "sight-collector" ... meaning that neither of us was happy about the pace we were setting.

If you have differing styles, build in time apart so that you can follow your own bliss from time to time... you don't have to be joined at the hip through the entire trip.

Please just reconsider the tour you looked at--it goes everywhere and you see NOTHING. To introduce Europe to you, why not take a limited tour for two places--maybe England and Ireland since you want to do that, although, as English speakers, these could be easier for you to do on your own. BUT my point is, take a week long tour of one of your more remote places, but that will really give you a TOUR of them and you won't have to back track to see more of them. Maybe Italy? THEN go on to touring on your own. I think you will find you are "smarter" than you think you are. And with research about what you want to see, and then asking here, I'll bet you can put together a really memorable trip.

One way to 'get your feet wet' that wouldn't be so overwhelming to self-plan is take a more simple trip since it's your first time. Just go for 2-3 weeks. Just go to 2-3 places.

In my opinion that is how you learn to travel, little by little, you build up your experiences and personal expertise.

If you really want to see a lot at a very fast pace, then I think a tour group IS the way to go. Because they know how to move people around faster than an individual can possibly do on their own. It will get you the experience of seeing some of Europe (in passing) it won't teach you anything about "travel" on your own.

While tours do the moving, you do learn about how things are done, how to get money, etc. A lot of people take a tour for their first trip. it teaches you that you do just what you do in your own country--plan where to go, how to get there, find a place to lay your head. I really think this young person can "learn" and then "do". But have a worthwhile tour!! There really are those available. There is nothing "evil" about them!! LOL