Rainbow

Mary Beth: Sinner? Love means running away and posting a "warning" on the internet?

biteme

Mary-Beth, <BR>I cannot wait for the day when "those people" who claim they aren't prejudice yet in fact ARE (such as yourself) are obliterated from this planet. We will be so much better without you. Just think, in the US , there was a disgusting intolerance of skin color, religious preference, prejudice against women, and now sexual perference. can i remind you the reason our country was founded was so that the persecuted and "outsiders" had a place to live. I'll tell you what, you "hate the sin, love the sinner" all you want and stick to your church and your god's country town, but for the rest of us, we'll continue to live cherish each different person we meet on our travels, knowing we'll be better because of it....

Bridget

Unfortunately, people like Mary-Beth cannot be "reasoned" with, as they can find any quote in the bible to validate thier twisted beliefs. Her line of thinking is the same line of thinking anti-abortionists use so they can murder and maim hundreds of innocent people in a clinic "to save" lives of unborn children -- they find back-ups quotes in the bible to support thier actions. Let Mary-Beth raise her children in a hole, and lie awake at night in her backwards world, disturbed and upset at the way people live, while the rest of us world travellers go out and explore and meet the most wonderful, different people. We will be the ones with enriched lives, and we'll be able to appreciate the day when we all live in peace. P.S. do you realize how ignorant you sound??????

Lani

To Elvira, <BR> <BR>I do apologize for misquoting you - I guess that's what your message sounded like to me, but I should have been more careful. And Mary-Beth, I called you Mary Ann, sorry about that! <BR> <BR>Most people on this forum apparently disagree with Mary-Beth's bringing this subject up. This is a very liberal group, I think, but a huge number of people would disagree with you if polled. You know, there are islands that don't want cruise ships with gay tour groups to dock at their shores, and actually prevent it. So Mary-Beth is not alone in her thinking, just alone on this forum, apparently. <BR> <BR>Everybody is entitled to their opinion, and this forum is for everybody. Let's just remember that!

John

Hi, all, <BR>Mary Beth is entitled to her opinions, even if many of us don't agree with her view of society. <BR>My problem with her observation is that it isn't terribly accurate. My wife and I spent several days in Sitges last winter and while I did notice some (presumed) gay couples around (noticeable mainly because it's so unusual in Iberia compared to any urban setting in the rest of Europe or North America), the fact is that we found Sitges to be a really nice family destination, evidenced by all the families present! Spanish, German, British, (not too many N. Americans, even though we were there during the film festival - great fun, by the way)...noisy (often naked) kids on the beach, LOTS of promenading teens and young couples, old people sitting and drinking wine or eating the usual midnight meal of squid-ink noodles (better in your mouth than it looks on the plate).... <BR>It was a pleasant, diverse setting. We saw no evidence of unacceptable behavior, unless you count the usual Euro-jerks with Vespas at 3 AM outside your hotel window.

Dawn

I do not support Mary Beth's view at all. But do you really think she is the only person who thinks this way? This was her first trip to Europe, she is not a seasoned traveler like most of us. As she said herself, she is from a rural place. Maybe she has not been exposed to the things that we have. Maybe instead of bashing her we could show her a little kindness and try and give her a different view of life. She also stated that she attends church, that opens up a whole bag of social and political beans. Mary Beth, you need to get a little more traveling under your belt, and next time, please with an open mind.

james

If you state your opinion in this forum, expect it to be answered. <BR> <BR>Mary-Beth, I was very angry when I first read your post. I want to apologize if it seemed like I meant to hurt you with my first response. I am often beside myself when I hear people talk about their Christian beliefs and disdain for one group or another, all in the same breath. I know you didn't say you disliked homosexuals, but what you did say points to the same conclusion. <BR>And I might be inclined to believe that you don't dislike homosexuals, yet why would you equate homosexuality with "the unsavory aspects of life"? That judgment screams hate. What's unsavory about love? <BR> <BR>I would honestly like to have a civil discussion with you about this because I am very interested in learning the bases for your beliefs on this issue. What do you say we email privately and free up this website for travel information? <BR> <BR>James

Sheila

Mary Beth <BR> <BR>I think that this is not the Forum for your opinions. You are, of course entitled to them, but those of us who love, like and admire and respect people of whatever sexuality don't need to be warned off some of them on the grounds of their sexuality. <BR> <BR>I post as a good Christian non-homophobic. <BR> <BR>And by the way, did you not have aguide book? All three of my Spanish guides tell me Sitges is gay-friendly. You could alwys have not gone......

Lani

Sheila, There comes that cliquish attitude about this forum again. This is not YOUR forum, it is everyone's forum! Whether you agree with Mary-Beth or not, it's her forum, too!

Sheila

Of course you're right, Lani; all i meant to do was reflect the overwhelming numbers of opinions expressed already. If this Forum did welcome such views as this, I, for one, wouldn't be using it. <BR> <BR>Does that make me cliquey? Well, if it does, c'est la vie, if not en rose!

HelenF

Yes it's true, those who get riled up by bigotry form an exclusionary clique on this Forum. Guilty as charged. Good ploy, Lani -- let's turn the topic to Sheila & the other cliquemeisters, and away from the homo-fraidy, gay-unfriendliness of Miss MaryBeth's posts & their spawn. That will resolve things.

Andrew

Dear Mary-Beth, You make me nautious. I hope you know that you are now at the bottom of the evolutionary ladder right next to spore molds. We've come so far in the last decades in our understanding of alternative lifestyles, only to see you set us back ten years. I have come to the conclusion that you were living in your closet during that time in which we evolved. Get with the times. By the way, thank you for making Christian United States citizens sound so narrow. I hope the people of Sitges, Spain read your letter and make a visit to your house real soon.

neil

<BR> <BR>Dear MaryBeth, <BR> <BR>Whether you like it or not, your post will be very popular -- if it will not become the most popular, soon -- in this forum because you struck a chord that is very sensitive to many people. <BR> <BR>Thus, like you, many people here are exercising the right to voice their opinion. I understand your surprise to learn (as you have now) that there may be many more people, even here in the US, who do not share your conception about "these people" who have "certain lifestyles which appear to be accepted as "normal" in certain parts of the world" -- since you have not travelled much to other places (even in United States) or did not try to interact with others who have views different from yours. So, do not be shock that others posting here are just as passionate as you in expressing their own views and not what you call "all the abusers". In fact, they care enough about you to take the time to answer your points -- some very cogent, others in greater detail rebutting (or explaining) your positions very logically. <BR> <BR>At least, you were just venting your opinion. To quote your first post: "My husband felt so uncomfortable that we left immediately. I cannot imagine how we would have felt if our sons had been with us." However, if you have been reading the newspaper or watching (television) news regularly, this year alone, you may be aware that many people here in the United States -- who believe like you do -- went to the extent of killing (very sadistically) many of "these people" who you considered as "sinner[s]" who desired to have "certain lifestyles which appear to be accepted as "normal" in certain parts of the world". What saddens me most was that many Christian leaders have been very silent in relation to the murders of "these people" who braved to live "certain lifestyles" not to your liking. What is even more tragic was that some who claim to be Christians, made "heroes" of people who murdered those who live "certain lifestyles". <BR> <BR>Apparently, you have strong passion about the subject of your posting such that after your first post at 9:04 am today; you waited for responses very religiously the whole day and took the time to reply immediately -- not once but multiple times -- at 10:06 am; 10:19 am; 12:27 pm & 2:37 pm ET on 20 Aug. 1999. Like you, I too was born Christian. Thus, if you truly understand the teachings of Christ, join me in condemning those who kill others all because some people -- who believe like you do -- were more passionate (than you are) that "the rest of us are entitled to spend our vacations [or live in communities] not being exposed to their lifestyles". <BR> <BR>Otherwise, if you don't condemn these murderers, all your postings purporting concern for other people are hollow. <BR> <BR>I won't be surprised that when you become more informed or learn to open your mind -- as you travel and interact with others or read more about other people and cultures -- you will find that your reaction to "these people" who have "certain lifestyles" is that of the minority. On the whole, my own experience is that people in general are more open-minded and more tolerant than the view you want to espouse. You may even find that many "churchgoing mother[s]" have sufficiently nurtured and developed the character and minds of their children so that their "impressionable teenage sons" (or daughters) learn to co-exist in this world with "these people" who have "certain lifestyles" -- without any fear of their children being "converted". <BR> <BR>I would hope too that if you will read your Christian Bible in greater depth and understand it truly in its entirety, you will come to the same conclusion as the Archbishop of Canterburry (in England), like many Christian leaders, that "these people" who have "certain lifestyles" are God' children and thus also of His kingdom. <BR> <BR>neil -- 990820 <BR> <BR>P.S. I checked "&lt;a href="http://www.ola.net/"&gt;ola.net&lt;/a&gt;" -- it is the URL of a hotel (and management company) -- "Ola Vallarta" in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. The e-mail you provided "[email protected]" apparently does not exist because a test mail I sent was returned as "undeliverable -- user

neil

<BR>my last post was truncated and should have ended as... <BR> <BR>-- user unknown" <BR> <BR> <BR>[sorry! -- neil]

Howard

Thank you all(or most of you, anyway). You have reinforced my belief in the inherent goodness of man and woman (and in the quality of Fodorite posters!).

Catherine

Mary Beth is obviously a troll,but who cares they stimulate some good debates. <BR>I really like gay people.I find them very liberal in their ideas.They are intelligent conversationalists with the ability to see all sides of an issue.They usually have a deadly wit and a great sense of humour.The ones I have known have usually been able to laugh at jokes against themselves as long as it isn't hateful. <BR>The most wonderful thing about gay men is their sense of style.They have a great eye for beauty and what looks good. <BR>I love to go shopping with gay men rather than my girlfriends. <BR>In interior decorating magazines,The featured house, is usally a house that gay men share. <BR>I love to hug gay men, there are no sexual overtones.They are big and strong and cuddly. <BR>I have a gay friend, who loves to touch people when he talks.Quite often he sits next to me with his hand holding the top of my thigh.If he wasn't gay you would be slapping his face.My husband tolerates this because he knows there is no threat. <BR>I think we need gay people in the world to teach us about tolerance and understanding. <BR> <BR>Right now I am going to watch a movie can't rember the name something about some people dancing in Ireland.Meryl Streep is in it.I hope there are gay people in it!!!! <BR>

HelenF

Catherine, I know you are writing to express your support for gay people, but your post was so full of stereotypes it upset me. Gay people are not witty, fashionable, funny, intelligent, great talkers, great lovers, shoppers, or husband seducers, any more than they are the scary types MB imagines them to be. Also, they are not all men, they are not all nice, smart, well dressed, great decorators, fun to be with. And to paraphrase Charles Barkley (of all people!!), they're not role models, put on this earth to teach tolerance. I don't believe there's such a thing as a "positive" stereotype -- I think it's a bad sign when we feel it's ok to lump people into groups and ascribe characteristics to them. Substitute: Blacks are great decorators, Jews are witty, Christians are fun to go shopping with -- you can't do it, it looks wrong, because it's not true (at least not of the whole class of people named. I hope that was an effective illustration. I was supposed to home, I wasn't supposed to post again,<BR>but I got agitated. Sorry if my response is a bit vehement. I think I should cut off my internet experience for a while and take a breather.<BR>BTW, I suspect you of a bit of trolling yourself. If so, you can deservedly tell me "Gotcha!"

AJ

HelenF, Neil, James, Elisa, Dan, Andrew, and the usuals. What a great opportunity we've had to stand up for something so important. I'm very happy to see this. <BR> <BR>A poster advised us to see what hackers had done to Reverend Phelps website www.Godhatesfags.com. If you have the stomach, visit this site, although you may have difficulty finding it. It is incredible, and I don't mean that in positive way. <BR> <BR>The hackers changed it Godlovesfags.com, with a link to the original site. I laughed and cheered the entire time, even though I told my kid that he's chopped liver if he hacks ANYTHING. <BR> <BR>Mary-Beth, the following might scare you so much that you'll run away screaming and praying. But I took my oldest teen to these sites. We talked. He asked questions. We learned. <BR> <BR>The point, Mary-Beth is that intolerance, repression, hate and fear, breed intolerance, repression, hate and fear. <BR> <BR>Knowledge, thinking, prayer, reflection and tolerance breeds knowledge, thinking, prayer, reflection and tolerance. <BR> <BR>It's up to you to teach your children what they need to know.

Lani

I'm afraid most of you (not all) who have responded to this thread, if in a playground fight, would continue to kick and punch somebody who's well down just for the fun of it! Mary-Beth may not be popular because of the opinion she holds, but are you guys any better, trashing her with such relish??? It's not real attractive!

Yikes!

Are we having any fun yet?