Mary Ann

Being a parent is preparing your child for life. Sheltering is doing an injustice to them and hiding life from yourself. I agree if you choose to avoid a city it is your choice, but the rest of the world. The USA has exactly what you are trying to avoid, since there is freedom of choice. You may be amazed at what discussions take place on school buses, and wait till they get to college! If you take time to understand others, life will be alot more pleasant.

bly

San Francisco, Key West, Provincetown, MA. Better avoid California, Florida and Mass. to name a few. Better yet - avoid the US since one town is representative of an entire country.

AJ

Mary-Beth, Tony may not be a chuchgoing mother of impressionable teenage boys, BUT I AM. And I couldn't disagree with you more. Your "warning" is disgusting, and very silly besides.

Peter

To anyone that want's to bring this to the top. Please do us all a favor and just don't respond any more. This is a Travel chat - and for ones that post "warnings" think before you do so! there are other choices of wards like "be advised" if you feel someone may benefit from your post. From responses to this post - no one is benefiting, so lets just chill take a prozak and go and post something that will help someone in their travels!!!

elvira

Trying to point out to a church-going woman with impressionable teenagers (apparently, going to church and having good parents is worthless because just the sight of a different lifestyle is going to overpower the children) that she might be a little off in her assessment, is an exercise in futility. She posted so she could either get like-minded sorts to join her, or to provoke other-thinking people into responding so she could natter on. <BR>Let's put this sucker to rest. <BR>

Lani

Elvira, <BR> <BR>What I find offensive is that you try to rally the little clique on the Europe Forum to ignore someone. "Why don't we all band together.........?", indeed! I could care less about discussing Mary Ann's question, and if you didn't want to, why didn't you just leave it alone? Everybody using a computer is probably intelligent enough to think for themselves! I usually enjoy your comments, but not today!

Carol Lehrman

I never respond to these sort of things, but I just can't put this one to rest. <BR> <BR>One of the biggest problems the U.S. faces today is hate and the hate crimes that go along with it. <BR> <BR>With beliefs like Mary-Beths, we will continue to live in a world full of hate, fear and crime. <BR> <BR>I am disgusted Mary Beth with what you wrote. You can have your belief, but please keep it to yourself. This attitude just adds to the ignorance that people have about one another. <BR> <BR>And in terms of travel - I always thought one of the biggest benefits of travel was to experience different environments, lifestyles and people. <BR> <BR>You will never find a place that you deem safe enough, because fortunately, in spite of all the hate, the world is still a multi-dimensional, diverse place with people of every shape, color and belief - and they are the people that are making up towns and cities everywhere. <BR>

Mary-Beth

I can't believe the abuse being levelled at me just because I posted what was meant to be friendly warning to likeminded families. Is it a crime to want to protect one's children from the more unsavory aspects of life? I don't think so! We live in a rural christian community where most people think the same way as us! I repeat - I am not prejudiced against these people - I feel sorry for them and I don't begrudge them their vacations. I just think that the rest of us are entitled to spend our vacations not being exposed to their lifestyles.

James

Mary-Beth, <BR> <BR>Your post saddens and enrages me. How dare you spread such a contemptuous message in this forum! By nature, travelers are open and accepting people. Your attitude poisons the spirit of cultural discovery and personal enrichment when you preach avoidance and intolerance. Yes, I said enrichment. As in, "I learned something about myself today and I am a better person for having recognized it." <BR> <BR>And before you deny your contempt for homosexuals, allow me to quote you: <BR> <BR>"I would like to warn future vacationers that this is NOT a family destination." <BR> <BR>And what is a family destination? A place without gay people? Try a neo-Nazi rally. Although I guess that has other issues that would concern a good parent. <BR> <BR>"My husband felt so uncomfortable that we left immediately." <BR> <BR>Wow, just upon hearing that these people were gay? You mean they didn't even bother you? You must be old enough to realize that the anxiety and discomfort experienced by you and your husband is solely a reflection of your narrow views, and in no way should be manipulated to malign people you don't know. Say it with me: PEOPLE YOU DON'T KNOW! <BR> <BR>"I cannot imagine how we would have felt if our sons had been with us." <BR> <BR>Boy, I hope you work that one out soon. Unless you've been home-schooling your sons from the beginning (which seems entirely likely), chances are that they've already "been exposed" and probably have gay friends. We're friendly people, you know. And if one of your sons turns out to be gay, I hope that your outlook improves considerably. <BR> <BR>"I just wished to suggest that people with families would not want their children exposed to certain lifestyles..." <BR> <BR>You're also suggesting that "people with families" are intolerant. Don't do that. <BR> <BR>"... which appear to be accepted as "normal" in certain parts of the world." <BR> <BR>That's because they are normal. In every part of the world. Unfortunately, it's also normal to fear or scorn that which you do not understand. I hope you can see the catch-22 in that. <BR> <BR>"Tony - I suspect that you are not a churchgoing mother of impressionable teenage sons." <BR> <BR>So impressionable that you should consider how they see you treat people. I'd be willing to bet that hate crimes against gay people are most often perpetrated by teens and young adults who live in an intolerant environment. Exactly who do you want your kids to be? <BR> <BR>I'm interested to know what church you attend. I can't see you being a faithful adherent to Christian tenets. The funny thing about religion, though, is that you can often get by with just a cameo on Sunday mornings and a volunteer gig every month, despite whether you actually absorb the principles or practice the lessons. <BR> <BR>James

ilisa

Mary Beth, I would also like to know what gave you the impression that people on this forum think the same way as you do? And, what will you do if one of your sons, down the road, comes to the realization that he is a homosexual?

JoAnn

Mary-Beth, sadly enough, I do believe your kids are on their way to a RUDE awakening being paved by you all the way. I rather expose my kids to REAL LIFE and teach them to be REAL to themselves. That to me is a better human being.

Adam

Lighten up folks! Slightly innappropriate though this may be, it's a great deal more entertaining than hairdryers, 17 year olds being hit on in swimming pools and whether or not you can smoke on Aeroflot! On the other hand, I cannot believe that anyone is taking this woman seiously! The whole thing looks more like a set-up than a seious posting to me and it seems to have elicited an unbelievable torrent of sanctimonious hysteria! Long may it continue!

dan woodlief

Need I remind you that San Francisco is in the U.S. You might actually feel more at home in Spain, or maybe Mexico (which is generally pretty macho). You are entitled to your opinion, and you are even entitled to express hateful opinions. Just don't expect most people, especially on a site such as this, to accept it. Unfortunately, I am sure there are many out there who feel the same way as you.

ellen

I just cant not get involved in this one....a life-long favorite destination of mine is Provincetown, MA. In fact, my huge Irish Catholic family of great grandparents, little tiny kids, and every thing (and then some) in between literally take over a little motel down there every other summer for a weekend reunion. Most of us are not gay, but all feel welcome and comfortable being a part of the P Town community now and then. <BR>Last summer, my husband and I were standing on a little balcony outside of a second floor shop watching the street scene below us on Commercial St. - I often conjure up the memory of that moment and how special it was. The sense of joy in the moment - the laughter, the smiling faces, the pride of place, the feeling that everone down there on that street - gay or straight - was somehow sharing with one another the gift of it all gave me such a rush of hope and well being - and I feel so sad for those who just wont open their minds and their hearts to the treasure of diversity. <BR>This hasn't got much to do with Europe I guess - but I am proud of all you fodorites who are taking the time to take issue with this "warning".

elvira

Lani: I went back and re-read my post, and I must be blind. I can't find "band together" or "clique" anywhere. My post said 'we', which I assumed meant everyone who reads the post and might respond. I said 'make a pact', which means a consensual agreement on an issue, not 'them against us' which 'band together' implies. <BR>Having spent a lot of years in radical politics, I tend to view certain statements as inflammatory, designed to drive everyone into camps. Nothing is ever accomplished to the positive; instead, what IS accomplished is that animosity and rancor begin to rear their ugly heads, and the perpetrator walks away with a grin. I was hoping to alert everyone to this in a gentle way; it backfired. I'll be clearer the next time. <BR>

Jack Roberts

Oh boy, this is heavy going. It's also very sad. <BR> <BR>Have to say that we need some cheering up folks, so here goes. <BR> <BR>There is an Internet site called GodHatesFags and for some time it has spewed out the most amazing and dangerous rubbish. Unfortunately for them it was hacked a few days ago and I thoroughly recommend that you check it out. Certainly made me smile. <BR> <BR>Don't wait too long as I'm sure it's going to get shut down very soon. The address is:- <BR> <BR>http://www.godhatesfags.com <BR> <BR>Jack

Peter

I see we are all still venting and prozak did not work... Instead of just ignoring what seems ignorant and stick with what we love the best - TRAVEL!. <BR>Why do we travel? to see some think that we did not see before to meet others to see their culture their ways and maybe learn from it. To limit your self is to miss out, unless it maybe harmfull to your health. <BR> <BR>Mary-Beth you mentioned "why all the men were so friendly to each other until another American pointed out to us what sort of people they were. My husband felt so uncomfortable that we left immediately." I think the loss is really yours - there was no possibility of any harm to you or your husband and ony thanks to the "another American" educating you - Your vacation got messed up. On the other hand if you did not learn the "why's" You would have loved the place. So I hope you can now for your self see that what harm you are doing to your self and others around you. As for "these people" and being christian - check the bible again the part with the stones, and next time be a bit open minded, and enjoy the vacation and other people for being just people. Esspecially when they are nice to you, which you offten find the opposite when traveling. Please everyone let's not respond to this one anymore so it will get ignored and sent to the very buttom of this forum...

Andria

Firstly, it is very wrong to use this forum to spread your fears and assume that everyone else here is as homophobic as you and your husband are. I must say your post shocked me to death. Homosexuals are not to be pitied, however you and your kind are! As a traveller, I am ashamed to call myself an american half of the time because of the ignorant tourists that spread their narrow views wherever they go. It's a good thing your ignorance isn't as contagious as you seem to think homosexuality is, or else we'd all be damned to hell. While you're at it, why don't you re-read the Bible, I think you missed a very important part.

Rainbow

Mary Beth: I suggest you avoid every city/town in world with a population over 200. Stay home! When you come to the part in the bible where it says "we are all god's children", say to yourself, god is a liar.

Mary-Beth

I would like to point out to all the abusers that I have never once mentioned the words "gay" or "homosexual" and I certainly don't hate these people. There is such a thing as loving the sinner and hating the sin so would you all please stop putting words in my mouth!