a tale of two cities...paris and london over christmas.
Jan 2nd, 2005, 11:43 AM
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a tale of two cities...paris and london over christmas.
having just returned from a trip to both paris and london, i was intrigued by the contrasts between the two over the holiday season.
let me preface my comments by saying that we normally do christmas in paris every other year while we've not been to london for several. so, from the jump, i have a paris bias.
i love everything about paris, speak reasonably good french and find the city particularly agreeable during the holidays. as a middle ground: i find rome to be merely okay, speak reasonably good italian and have found the holiday season to be, well...well, merely okay. london , on the other hand, i found to be a major disappointment during this season.
perhaps it was because we arrived in paris on the 19th prior to holiday closings and were still able to eat at our favorite restaurants and do some of our favorite things (the hotel drouot...the southeby's/christie's of paris).
perhaps it was because we arrived in london on boxing day (the 26th...a sunday) and still had an extra day of closings due to the obseverence of said holiday on monday. i can write that lost day off to poor planning.
but, in reality, i'm left with the impression that paris rocks over the holidays while london closes like a clam. other than the heavily touristed areas of picadilly, soho and some of westminster, the rest of the city was dead as a doornail. areas like holborn, bloomsbury and the city were desolation row.
frankly, london is overpriced at any price regardless of the exchange rate. even londoners that i spoke with complain about prices. for christsake, i can buy the same bottle of scotch in south carolina for less than the london price even discounting the exchange differential. something's gotta be wrong there. a pack of cigarettes is roughly $8.00??? a draught beer (agreed, 16 oz.) $5.00???
we knew london was going to be expensive (but not THAT expensive). we also knew paris was going to cost a bit more, but it was within reasonable limits. maybe it's because we know paris and the neighborhood in which we always stay so well that we also know what is more economical than random touristing.
anyhow, sometime subsequent to this initial rant, i'll give you my trip report which will, in fact, have some highlights about london.
let me preface my comments by saying that we normally do christmas in paris every other year while we've not been to london for several. so, from the jump, i have a paris bias.
i love everything about paris, speak reasonably good french and find the city particularly agreeable during the holidays. as a middle ground: i find rome to be merely okay, speak reasonably good italian and have found the holiday season to be, well...well, merely okay. london , on the other hand, i found to be a major disappointment during this season.
perhaps it was because we arrived in paris on the 19th prior to holiday closings and were still able to eat at our favorite restaurants and do some of our favorite things (the hotel drouot...the southeby's/christie's of paris).
perhaps it was because we arrived in london on boxing day (the 26th...a sunday) and still had an extra day of closings due to the obseverence of said holiday on monday. i can write that lost day off to poor planning.
but, in reality, i'm left with the impression that paris rocks over the holidays while london closes like a clam. other than the heavily touristed areas of picadilly, soho and some of westminster, the rest of the city was dead as a doornail. areas like holborn, bloomsbury and the city were desolation row.
frankly, london is overpriced at any price regardless of the exchange rate. even londoners that i spoke with complain about prices. for christsake, i can buy the same bottle of scotch in south carolina for less than the london price even discounting the exchange differential. something's gotta be wrong there. a pack of cigarettes is roughly $8.00??? a draught beer (agreed, 16 oz.) $5.00???
we knew london was going to be expensive (but not THAT expensive). we also knew paris was going to cost a bit more, but it was within reasonable limits. maybe it's because we know paris and the neighborhood in which we always stay so well that we also know what is more economical than random touristing.
anyhow, sometime subsequent to this initial rant, i'll give you my trip report which will, in fact, have some highlights about london.
Jan 2nd, 2005, 02:46 PM
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Glad you enjoyed Paris, anyway! Yes, London (and even the outer burbs where we're now living) is insanely overpriced. The best thing to do is shut your eyes, hold your nose, pay the bill, and try not to think about it afterwards.
At any rate, looking forward to your complete trip report with your highlights from both places.
At any rate, looking forward to your complete trip report with your highlights from both places.
Jan 2nd, 2005, 04:39 PM
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I agree, helrot. What I find extremely boring and vulgar are people who love to put down others and the places they live.
Only the most VULGAR of bores could say the following to someone they don't even know:
" People who focus in (sic) such factors should stay home; they don't deserve to be let out of drab places like South Carolina!"
Only the most VULGAR of bores could say the following to someone they don't even know:
" People who focus in (sic) such factors should stay home; they don't deserve to be let out of drab places like South Carolina!"
Jan 2nd, 2005, 06:05 PM
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One thing we do have in South Carolina that seems to be missing in some posters is enough sense to know when to keep quiet and some basic good manners. Where are you from in South Carolina subcon?
What a shame this troll has returned to ruin everything for all. I stayed away for two full weeks when this happened before and just waited for "it" to disappear. Luckily for all of us kindergarten resumes shortly and all should be well again.
What a shame this troll has returned to ruin everything for all. I stayed away for two full weeks when this happened before and just waited for "it" to disappear. Luckily for all of us kindergarten resumes shortly and all should be well again.
Jan 3rd, 2005, 01:26 AM
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actuallly, we live very close to the equally overpriced hilton head island which we avoid assiduously for the very reason nelly misattributes to NYC: that they charge more because they can.
new york, like london, paris and every other major city has a tremendous infrastructure that must be supported generally with additional taxes. i can understand that.
what baffles me (and several londoners with whom i spoke) is why the raw cost of goods and services in london is so out of line with other EU cities. yes, tobacco and alcohol are expensive in paris and amsterdam but not nearly to the degree of london.
as to the supposed "vulgarity" of discussing relative costs on a travel forum, i just don't know how to respond other than to say that without the invaluable assistence of other contributors on this very subject, trip planning might just as well be a crap shoot.
new york, like london, paris and every other major city has a tremendous infrastructure that must be supported generally with additional taxes. i can understand that.
what baffles me (and several londoners with whom i spoke) is why the raw cost of goods and services in london is so out of line with other EU cities. yes, tobacco and alcohol are expensive in paris and amsterdam but not nearly to the degree of london.
as to the supposed "vulgarity" of discussing relative costs on a travel forum, i just don't know how to respond other than to say that without the invaluable assistence of other contributors on this very subject, trip planning might just as well be a crap shoot.
Jan 3rd, 2005, 01:42 AM
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subcon - one of the reasons that (for instance) tobacco and alcohol are so expensive in London and the UK is the level of duty (tax) levied on them by the gov't. This makes sense - from a health point of view and also from a planning aspect - the exchequer can accurately predict tax revenues from these income streams since the demand for both is pretty in-elastic; smokers will always find the price of a packet of twenty regardless of what that price may be since they need to assuage the nicotine craving.
The flipside of this is that the amount of both organised (criminal) smuggling and personal tobacco/booze trips to Calais and Belgium has increased exponentially during the last twenty years since the cost of travelling to The Continent has become cheaper than both the perceived risk of being caught and also the saving achieved in duties/tax.
Sorry to read that your trip to London was a disappointment but various posts on this forum and others attest to the London shut-down between Christmas and the New Year; in future you may enjoy yourself more in a hotel or cottage out in the wilds somewhere with a brisk walk on Boxing Day and copious trips to the pub for convesation, warmth by a roaring fire, a smoke and a pint or two at prices more reasonable than London!
Best wishes
Dr D.
The flipside of this is that the amount of both organised (criminal) smuggling and personal tobacco/booze trips to Calais and Belgium has increased exponentially during the last twenty years since the cost of travelling to The Continent has become cheaper than both the perceived risk of being caught and also the saving achieved in duties/tax.
Sorry to read that your trip to London was a disappointment but various posts on this forum and others attest to the London shut-down between Christmas and the New Year; in future you may enjoy yourself more in a hotel or cottage out in the wilds somewhere with a brisk walk on Boxing Day and copious trips to the pub for convesation, warmth by a roaring fire, a smoke and a pint or two at prices more reasonable than London!
Best wishes
Dr D.
Jan 3rd, 2005, 02:22 AM
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dr. d...
thanks for the more measured response. i was, in fact as i stated, aware of the closings, just not prepared for the magnitude of the shutdown. many of the pubs kindly referred by mr. ben haines were either closed entirely or had their kitchen staff on holiday for the week. this was actually the biggest disappointment.
and i certainly understand the tax situation altho i doubt it is motivated by such altruistic ideals as the general health of the citizenry. bottled water is rather dear as well.
further, when i have time to write my trip report
thanks for the more measured response. i was, in fact as i stated, aware of the closings, just not prepared for the magnitude of the shutdown. many of the pubs kindly referred by mr. ben haines were either closed entirely or had their kitchen staff on holiday for the week. this was actually the biggest disappointment.
and i certainly understand the tax situation altho i doubt it is motivated by such altruistic ideals as the general health of the citizenry. bottled water is rather dear as well.
further, when i have time to write my trip report
Jan 3rd, 2005, 12:25 PM
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Typically, it might be viewed as "better" (more convenient to readers?) to post your continutions here... but it also works to just let people know that you DID continue here...
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34549263
and here...
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34549370
Best wishes,
Rex
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34549263
and here...
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34549370
Best wishes,
Rex
Jan 3rd, 2005, 01:05 PM
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Subcon: I haven't read your other posts, but I found it interesting that Ben Haines was in Paris while you were in London specifically because he found that London closes down.
Anyway, we have found that London is for us our most expensive destination and then Rome. Paris, no matter what the Euro, seems doable for some reason.
However, I will say one thing: our food in London was not only very, very good--perhaps even better than our Paris trips (am waiting for arrows here!)--but was generous in portions. In other words, a good value.
Anyway, we have found that London is for us our most expensive destination and then Rome. Paris, no matter what the Euro, seems doable for some reason.
However, I will say one thing: our food in London was not only very, very good--perhaps even better than our Paris trips (am waiting for arrows here!)--but was generous in portions. In other words, a good value.
