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A lesson for travellers who think your passport should be in the hotel safe

A lesson for travellers who think your passport should be in the hotel safe

Old Dec 21st, 2019, 09:44 AM
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A lesson for travellers who think your passport should be in the hotel safe

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/...183710331.html
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Old Dec 21st, 2019, 10:29 AM
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Passports not on their person...

or traveling while black?
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Old Dec 21st, 2019, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Jean
Passports not on their person...

or traveling while black?
..and in the Balkans.
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Old Dec 21st, 2019, 10:54 AM
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Croatia.., not very successful in trying to rewrite its racist/ nazi past.
Figures.
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Old Dec 21st, 2019, 11:15 AM
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Guys you're totally missing the point.

Sure, you can just rely on your white privilege and think that's never going to happen to you, but what if it happens. It doesn't have to be such an extreme case as with these guys. I would rather not waste my time at a police station until my identity is cleared. If their story is true, they could have easily avoided this ordeal by simply showing their passports.

Carrying a valid travel document is like travel isurance. I have more than 20 years of travelling behind me, 40 countries and I never needed my travel insurance, but I would never leave home without one. And I always take my passport with me.

"Croatia.., not very successful in trying to rewrite its racist/ nazi past."

Tourism arrivals figures show a different picture. For most people in this world Croatia is one of the most beautiful destinations of the world and they don't know and/or don't care about the Nazi history of Croatia.

Last edited by BDKR; Dec 21st, 2019 at 11:18 AM.
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Old Dec 21st, 2019, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Jean
Passports not on their person...or traveling while black?
Exactly what I was about to say. Young & African. The "deported" part is the giveaway. Can you really imagine, BDKR, that you'd have been dumped across a border in the woods in similar circumstances? I think not. I'd have thought more about the issue you tried to raise if you'd come up with a story about white tourists without passports on their person, making a point, if there is one to be made, that it could happen to anyone.

Last edited by MmePerdu; Dec 21st, 2019 at 11:25 AM.
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Old Dec 21st, 2019, 11:58 AM
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Unbelievable. As the others have said, nothing to do with not carrying their passports. I hope the police officers experience severe consequences for this. They stopped them without cause, deported them illegally, threatened to shoot them, and then also failed to document it. Which makes me wonder what else they fail to document. Croatia has become somewhat lower on my bucket list, because I’m not inclined to give them tourist dollars after this.

It’s thoroughly odd to me that I’ve had EU backpackers ask me about racism in the US and relevant safety when racism is clearly an issue in Europe. And Zagreb is a city, not some small place off the beaten path. People may not care about history, but Croatia should care about its reputation.
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Old Dec 21st, 2019, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BDKR
Guys you're totally missing the point.

Sure, you can just rely on your white privilege and think that's never going to happen to you, but what if it happens. It doesn't have to be such an extreme case as with these guys. I would rather not waste my time at a police station until my identity is cleared. If their story is true, they could have easily avoided this ordeal by simply showing their passports.

Carrying a valid travel document is like travel isurance. I have more than 20 years of travelling behind me, 40 countries and I never needed my travel insurance, but I would never leave home without one. And I always take my passport with me.

"Croatia.., not very successful in trying to rewrite its racist/ nazi past."

Tourism arrivals figures show a different picture. For most people in this world Croatia is one of the most beautiful destinations of the world and they don't know and/or don't care about the Nazi history of Croatia.
of course people don’t know or care.. as for one of the most beautiful destinations in the
WORLD...not really.
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Old Dec 21st, 2019, 02:05 PM
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Nazi history of Croatia, no not the 1930s and 40s!

I suspect it was intended to refer to the racist period that surfaced 30 years ago, meant that NATO had to bomb them into behaving and now 2019 gets them regularly punished for racism in football (soccer).

If you don't care you should, and carry your passport.
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Old Dec 21st, 2019, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bilboburgler
Nazi history of Croatia, no not the 1930s and 40s!

I suspect it was intended to refer to the racist period that surfaced 30 years ago, meant that NATO had to bomb them into behaving and now 2019 gets them regularly punished for racism in football (soccer).

If you don't care you should, and carry your passport.
I think it is Serbia that was bombed by NATO not Croatia, although both countries
comited their share of crimes during the break up of former Yugoslavia.

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Old Dec 21st, 2019, 04:34 PM
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I carry a photocopy of my passport while out and about. My passport will remain in the hotel safe.
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Old Dec 21st, 2019, 04:52 PM
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The photocopy is at least better than nothing. Perhaps showing only a photocopy of their passport and visa could have saved these guys from deportation.

"Can you really imagine, BDKR, that you'd have been dumped across a border in the woods in similar circumstances?"

I can easily imagine that I would need to pay a hefty bribe to Nigerian policemen to avoid a similar fate if I can't show my passport.

"I suspect it was intended to refer to the racist period that surfaced 30 years ago, meant that NATO had to bomb them into behaving"

NATO has to bomb "racist countries" into behaving? Now, I understand what's the purpose of NATO. Cheers!

" I'd have thought more about the issue you tried to raise if you'd come up with a story about white tourists without passports on their person, making a point, if there is one to be made, that it could happen to anyone."

I was stopped by policemen or soldiers a few times in various countries and had to show my documents and answer a few questions. I just read about a Hungarian girl(white and blond) who was stopped by police officers in Germany and she couldn't show any document. The Hungarian embassy had to be involved to solve it. There's no reason to think you'll always and everywhere be untouchable because of your white skin. The law applies to everyone, even if the authorities can be selective in enforcing it.

To sum it up:

1) I think everyone(even Croatians) would agree, what the police officers have done is uneccaptable.

BUT

2) The whole thing could have been easily avoided if the 2 guys could show their passport on the spot.

Last edited by BDKR; Dec 21st, 2019 at 05:40 PM.
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Old Dec 21st, 2019, 07:00 PM
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I have traveled for 30+ yeas ( including Croatia) ..never carry my passport since the day I left my handbag ( and passport in it) in a fitting room of a Paris department store..
have a copy, DL and CC on me..the chance of a white woman being arrested and deported seems minimal.
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Old Dec 21st, 2019, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BDKR

BUT

2) The whole thing could have been easily avoided if the 2 guys could show their passport on the spot.
We have no way of knowing that. The outcome may have been exactly the same.
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Old Dec 21st, 2019, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BDKR
Guys you're totally missing the point.

Sure, you can just rely on your white privilege and think that's never going to happen to you, but what if it happens. It doesn't have to be such an extreme case as with these guys. I would rather not waste my time at a police station until my identity is cleared. If their story is true, they could have easily avoided this ordeal by simply showing their passports.

Carrying a valid travel document is like travel isurance. I have more than 20 years of travelling behind me, 40 countries and I never needed my travel insurance, but I would never leave home without one. And I always take my passport with me.

"Croatia.., not very successful in trying to rewrite its racist/ nazi past."

Tourism arrivals figures show a different picture. For most people in this world Croatia is one of the most beautiful destinations of the world and they don't know and/or don't care about the Nazi history of Croatia.
Other people do care about Croatia's racism and ex-nazism. Life is unpredictable that way.

Goes to show: always have your passport on you, when you're black and traveling Croatia.
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Old Dec 21st, 2019, 11:04 PM
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I can't decide if you really don't understand that situation or just don't want to understand.

"The whole thing could have been easily avoided if the 2 guys could show their passport on the spot"
"We have no way of knowing that. The outcome may have been exactly the same."

We have indeed no way to KNOW what would have happened if they had managed to identify themselves on the spot, but you have no reason to ASSUME that the outcome would have been exactly the same.

We have no reason to assume that pruducing their documents would not have been enough to persuade the police officers that their status in Croatia is 100% legit.

"Other people do care about Croatia's racism and ex-nazism."

Some do care, but how many?

I bet if we would ask every tourist disembarking from a cruise ship in Dubrovnik whether they know the words Ustasa or Jasenovac 90% of them(no just make it 99%) would just stare at us.

For the first time more than 20 million tourists have visited Croatia in one year, the Ministry of Tourism announced here on Friday.

Croatia sets record with over 20 million tourist arrivals - Xinhua | English.news.cn

"always have your passport on you, when you're black and traveling Croatia"

Isn't it more simple to have your passport on you(or the very least a photocopy) anywhere abroad, whatever your race, religion or nationality?

Last edited by BDKR; Dec 21st, 2019 at 11:07 PM.
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Old Dec 21st, 2019, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BDKR
I can't decide- SNIP SNIP SNIP - religion or nationality?
Passports often don't help much, if you're black. And/or in Eastern Europe or the Balkans. Simples.

That whole: ThEy sHoULd jUsT hAvE cOmPliEd!1!1111!!!!!!

So ill informed.
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Old Dec 21st, 2019, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BDKR
I can't decide if you really don't understand that situation or just don't want to understand.
BDKR.

We understand. We believe your premise is faulty. No amount of objection will change that. Better luck next time.

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Old Dec 22nd, 2019, 12:28 AM
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"Passports often don't help much, if you're black. And/or in Eastern Europe or the Balkans. Simples."

How much time have you spent in "Eastern Europe" or the Balkans that you're so "well informed"?

I live here(in Hungary) and travel quite frequently all around the region, including Croatia.

While there aren't nearly as many blacks here as in the USA(we never had slavery) or in Western Europe(we never had colonies), there are still quite a few blacks here especially in the capitals. There are more and more tourists as well and there are temporary or permanent residents. There are loads of students from African countries since the communist times, many of them married local girls after finishing the university here and settled down. There are all kinds of people among them, some are loved and respected like doctors, tramway drivers, basketball players etc, others are loathed but not for their race, but for their deeds(criminals, drug dealeres, pimps). Policemen don't touch them with a finger as long as their papers are in order. For policemen documents are everything, without documents you're nobody.

We have an Afro-American university professor teaching at the best economics university of Budapest, who said in an interview that he had experienced more racism in his homeland - the USA, than in Hungary where he lived since many years.

?Fekete vagyok: sokkal jobb nekem Magyarországon, mint Amerikában? ? interjú | Globoport

Here is a black girl who travelled around Eastern Europe(including Croatia) and experienced no racism anywhere.

http://theamerikanka.com/black-perso.../#.Xf8utPx7nIU

I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist here, it is just not that common or serious as the mainstream media wants you to believe it.

"We believe your premise is faulty."

What is my premise?

Croatian policemen on patrol in Zagreb noticed 2 unusual and suspicous individuals. (Yes, 2 black men in Zagreb outside the tourist season is unusual and suspicious, whether you like it or not.) They assumed they might be illegal immigrants, since Croatia is struggling with an influx of illegal immigrants from Bosnia(although most of them are not blacks, but people from the Middle East and South Asia) so they stopped them and asked for their documents(that's what policemen usually do from the USA to Papua New Guinea). At this point if they could show their passports with their Croatian visa they could have easily proved on the spot that they're not illegal immigrants. If a Croatian embassy has given a visa to someone, police officers have no business to question that. Since they didn't have any documents they were assummed to be illegal immigrants from Bosnia and we know the rest. That's not how it should have happened. They should have taken these guys to their hostel(a short drive since Zagreb is not a large city) where they could show their passports. In short: It was the policemens fault, what happened is indeed scandalous and I can't imagine that would be the norm in Croatia, these were simply 2 idiot and yes perhaps even racist(They're black, so they must be lying) policemen. But the moral of the story is that all this could have been easily avoided if they had their passport with them and not in the hostel. Perhaps even a photocopy could have been enough to persuade the policemen to go back to the hostel with them and see their passports.

So what is that you don't understand or don't agree with?

Last edited by BDKR; Dec 22nd, 2019 at 12:53 AM.
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Old Dec 22nd, 2019, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by BDKR
SNIP SNIP SNIP
How much time have you spent in "Eastern Europe" or the Balkans that you're so "well informed"?
SNIP

I live here(in Hungary) and travel quite frequently all around the region, including Croatia.
SNIP

LENGTHY APOLOGETICS

So what is that you don't understand or don't agree with?
1. more time than you think
2. that explains a lot
3. everything

https://www.politico.eu/article/the-...ungarian-hell/
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