Hello Folks:

My wife and I and travel partners (sister and her hubby) are in the early stages of planning our 2nd European vacation. We are planning on spending 2 weeks in Europe. Our first trip to Europe in 2004 was spent in Italy where we had an absolutely marvelous time. We are resisting the temptation to simply go back to Italy.

We are considering spending several days in Spain, which we have a pretty good idea where we want to go, and what we want to see. The 2nd part of the trip (maybe 9 days) will be spent in France.

So here it is:

Having nothing to do with politics, I have had some negative opinions of the French. We have spent time in Tahiti with many guests from France. I really did find them to be rude. So, give it to me folks. Are they a rude group of people or will we enjoy some nice people?

Assuming that all of you don't reply to that first question with an overwhelming "rude people", we will probably move forward with our plans to visit France.



Where to go? I know that I will be condemned for life by fellow fodorites if I don't give you our likes and dislikes.

We are young middle-aged people in our early 50's.

We are planning a springtime trip (May or June). Should we consider a different time?

In Italy, we loved the countryside and small villages. Especially those with wine. Did you here that, ESPECIALLY THOSE WITH WINE .

We love to hike/walk.

We love to picnic umm with a bottle of wine.

We will have a car.

Some recommended Paris as a hub and to make day trips from there. If we followed that plan, would we really enjoy it, as we have to get in and out of Paris on a somewhat daily basis? Or will that be too much of a hassle?

In Italy, we spent one full week at an agriturismo (spelling) in Montepulicano. That was marvelous. I assume France has similar accommodations. Maybe just called Villas? Your thoughts on where a good central location might be?

We are not particularly into history.

Did I forget to mention that we loved wine? But seriously we also loved the food in Italy. And although some of our most memorable meals in Italy were the expensive meals, there were just as many meals that were at simple places in an old village or those meals comprised of picnic items found in a little market.

I certainly know of many of the main wine appellations in France. And, although we really do love wine, I would only want to spend all my time in wine regions if it fits all our other wants.

Your anticipated responses will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Jeff

The French get a bad rap for being rude. They are not rude, but they are reserved and don't go around smiling all the time. The French are very polite and value that quality in visitors to their country.

First of all, my experience [as a brit] is that the french are the same as people everywhere - some, nice and helpful, others downright rude. I find that smiling a lot and saying "merci" helps - they are very hot on "manners". THat being said, a lot of french people don't like parisiens, so you might be more comfortable in the country.
You don't say what sort of ideas you have for Spain- are you thinking city or country or a mix? Are you going to be driving or flying?
If you were going to be based in Northern Spain - say, Barcelona, it would not be too far to drive over into France and base yourselves near Bordeaux - say St. Emilion, or alternatively to head over to the Cahors area - both good areas for wine lovers.
Alternatively, you could head for the Loire area, and base yourselves there; you would be able to enjoy the wine and countryside there, and it is possible to get to Paris in an hours from Tours, for example. THere are B & Bs available, often in chateaux, or gites - self-catering houses often in the countryside, as well as lots of nice hotels, - eg the logis de france type.
I think that you would find this type of holiday more enjoyable than staying in Paris, if you main interests are eating , drinking and walking [not necessarily in that order!] Bon chance!

The Parisians are saints to put up with the throngs of tourists like they do. We found them to be courteous if not downright friendly.

It was the tourists who elbowed us out of the way, brayed like donkeys, and acted like morons. The French were fine.

You can find my trip report here:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads..._name=Demented

I would not reccommend driving in Paris at all. Staying in Versailles might be a good option.

D

Before my solo trip to Paris a couple of weeks ago, i received all the horror stories and warnings about the rude French. Especially regarding my inability to speak the language (hey, i know vin. I figured that was enough!)and the fact that I am a female alone.

Every person I encountered (and I am very gregarious so I encountered a lot) were wonderful. Kind, pleasant, helpful. Even the men who hit on me accepted my turn-down just as nicely as I offered it.

I felt completely safe the entire time...and completely welcomed. Bad rap, undeserved rap.

Give them a pleasant person and that's what you will receive.

The French come in all varieties - good/bad/and everything inbetween just like other nationalities. If you are polite and remember you are a guest in their country you will have no problems. A smile and a "merci" go a long way. In general, you will be treated as you treat others.

I agree with the previous posters about the French. They are wonderful, polite, charming, and helpful. In Paris, they are like people in any big city - busy leading their own busy lives. I think this gets misinterpreted sometimes as indifference but it's not. As Underhill says, they are much more reserved than Americans (and Italians) so you need to approach them differently. I find that it helps to always say hello, address people saying Monsieur or Madame before talking with them, and ask them if they speak English before launching into a question (as in Bonjour Madame, parlez vous Englais?). I'm always amazed when I see Americans in France just walk up to someone in the street and start shouting out questions in English and then get offended when the person walks away or reacts negatively.

As for Paris versus the countryside, my vote is both. If you have two weeks, I'd spend the first in Paris (without, under any circumstances, a car) and see the sights. Even if you're not history buffs, it's an incredible place to be. We prefer to stay on the left bank because it's more quaint and has great restaurants and cafes.

For the second week, you could either do Loire as annhig suggests or go to Provence. If you do the former, you can rent a car on your last day in Paris and drive down there. However, it's lots of castles which are incredible but probably not interesting if you don't care for history. Or, you can take the train from Paris to Provence (probably Avignon) and rent a car there. I think your experience in Provence would be a lot like your Italian experience in Montepulciano - wonderful little towns, great food, lots of hiking, great people. We were there in May and it was fine, Spring-like weather.

Hope that helps!

You really have to wonder how many decades...centuries...this " the French are rude myth" is going to persist....

Oh no, not another thread about "rude" French people. That is soooo old and soooo wrong!

Just because in their culture it is impolite to waste words and waste other people's time with small talk and phony gushing "friendliness", the French are being mistaken by some ignorant foreigners.

I agree with the previous poster who calls them saints for putting up with the throngs of foreigners, especially those who keep repeating the same old and tired rubbish about "rude' French...

Can we bury this, about 6 feet under ground?

WK

Have never found the French to be rude (obviously there are exceptions anywhere - or someone having a bad day). In general they are very polite but they are often not effusive.

But IMHO some people - esp some Americans from smaller towns with a very slow pace - don;t take into account that they're in a world capitol with very busy people and feel that anyone who is not smiley happy all the time is being rude - rather than merely busy/reserved.

There are very nice people in France, there are rude people in France, there are rude people in Spain, there are very nice people in Spain, there are rude people in the States, there are very nice people in the States...I still don't understand that question !!!

Mon Cher Jeffery

Mon Dieu! You may have to start another thread to get your actual travel questions answered. ;-)

I think it would be great for you to tour a wine region of France. I don't really think Paris will suit your needs, unless you want to stay for a couple of days on your way into or out of the country.

As one poster suggested, you could spend time in Bordeaux after Spain. I wish I had more to offer on France, but the only area I know really well is Paris, and it just doesn't seem to me that Paris fits the type of vacation you find enjoyable.

And I know what you mean about resisting the temptation to go back to Italy. We go to Italy often and are planning on France for 2007. It is really hard for us to stick to our plans and stay out of Italy!

NO, they are NOT rude. Unless you are to them. And yes, they are very polite as someone else mentioned and shopkeepers and such EXPECT YOU to be polite also--saying "bonjour" and "au revoir" and "merci".

suggest you spend some time in the hilltop wine town of Sancerre. Breathtaking views of the Loire, and the countryside of the Cher and the Nievre, and the wine is good! There also is a new Maison des vins in town, with informative exhibits in English, and of course, there are vintners and caves. On the other side of the Loire, in La Charite-sur-Loire, the town that was too much for Joan of Arc, Jean Paul Quenault, a former restaurateur, runs a little shop called Le Vin, a great place to buy local, and other wines. He is generous with tastings, and you'll often find him in conversation with a vintner or other wine professional. This is low-key, lightly visited and beautiful countyside, and the people are great. We recently arranged a cave and vineyard visit at the Sancerre vinyard of Vincent Grall. Madame Grall speaks excellent English and she's a very gracious host.
http://www.grall-vigneron-sancerre.com/
At the least, why not seek out a bottle of Sancerre red, Alphonse Mellot is a good one, http://www.mellot.com/ and a bottle of Pouilly fume white, say by Serge Dageneneau and his daughters,
http://www.s-dagueneau-filles.fr/
Tasting can be inspiring. A good bottle of red brought us to France many years ago.

A few thoughts to Jeffery, from a French citizen :

I am always puzzled by all these "the French are rude " threads. On a recent trip to Rome, I found people, in particularly the service staff, to be no better or worse than in Paris.

If your idea of a specific people is a negative one, why bother to visit the country? Stereotypes, especially the negative ones, colour your vision of country and your perceptions when your are there. You will be looking for your "rude French waiter" ( and maybe be disappointed if you don't find any).

In a way sterotypes are self-fulfilling. If you found French tourists relaxing on a beach vacation in Tahiti, "rude", you may end up being unhappy in France because you will "see" rudeness everywhere.

If your vision of the world is that the French are uniformly bad and the Italians uniformly wonderful, maybe you should stick to the country you already know...

Merci, mes amis (sorry, it's been a while since high school French! I promise I'll practice before going.) But I've been trying to convince my brother, Jeffery, that it was a bad rap! Now we can get on with planning this trip!!

Given the things that you liked about Italy, it seems that the French countryside would be a much better base for you than Paris.

Small villages, picnics with wine, country inns or B&Bs (chambres d'hotes). I haven't been to enough areas of France to comment on the best ones for those criteria, but basically every place I have been in the French countryside fits the bill.

And on the politeness issue, I find it is difficult to remember that the French follow different rules than I do. For instance, I find it somewhat unnatural and awkwardly formal to address everyone as Monsieur or Madame, but that is how the French routinely greet each other. So when walking into a shop, if you say "Bonjour Madame" before asking for assistance, you are following local custom. And upon leaving, "Merci Madame". Sometimes it seems to me there is a contest as to who gets to say the final thank you. Thank you. No, it is I who thank you. Bonne journee (have a nice day). It goes on and on.

Oh please please don't base yourselves in Paris! It might be nice to spend a few days there, but based on all you've said you would just love Provence -- great wine, great food, countless beautiful villages (take your pick -- by the sea or among the hills and valleys). You might even love driving up there through the Languedoc from Spain. And May-June is a wonderful time to go.

Hi J and T,

Despite what you say, I recommend spending 6 nights in Paris, especially mid-May/June.

You could train to Dijon/Beuane or the Loire Valley for 2 nights.

You won't need a car.

Alternatively, you could do a motor trip from Spain toward either the Atlantic or Mediterranean Coasts.

Where will you be in Spain?

My husband and I also are in our early fifties. We've been to France three times since 2001. Two trips included long houseboat rentals in the countryside, in the Burgundy area and in SW France around Cahors. We live in New York City, where store clerks often are rude but people on the street usually are helpful (although rushed). My husband speaks and understands a little French. I speak very little and understand less. We did not find the French to be rude. Most were helpful and patient with our attempts to communicate. We did make a point of greeting shopkeepers, waiters, etc., a formality that seemed universally appreciated.

In the Burgundy area, we enjoyed visiting old churches and cathedrals. In SW France, we visited Pech Merle, a beautiful cave with stalagmites, stalactites and prehistoric drawings, and we loved the limestone cliffs on the upper Lot River. We did not encounter many English-speaking natives outside Paris, but we did encounter some English-speaking tourists from Germany and other European countries.

Perhaps Burgundy is the place for you: Dijon, Beaune, etc.

I'll take this opportunity to tell you my very favorite spot, so far, in Paris. It's in the Luxembourg Gardens - the Fontaine des Medicis. We first saw it in October when the leaves were changing color.

Now my husband and I need to resist the temptation to return to France. We should make our next trip to Italy!