A balanced view
Mar 18th, 2004, 10:13 AM
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A balanced view
My teenage daughter has requested that we include a visit to a concentration camp in our 3 week trip to Europe. I will honor her request, but want to balance that visit with the beauty that Germany offers. I've got about 7 days between Luzern and Venice. One thought: Luzern to Bingen (5hrs) then cruise to Bacharach (1hr) for a day or two, then cruise to Koblenz (1hr) and train to Munich (5hrs) for a few days, with one devoted to Dauchau. Does this seem like a reasonable plan or is there a better balanced route? (I'm starting a new thread since this question is more specific than those I previously posted.) As always, thanks for all advice.)
Mar 18th, 2004, 10:49 AM
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"(I'm starting a new thread since this question is more specific than those I previously posted.) As always, thanks for all advice.)"
Your header still does't tell us what you are looking for. You should include Germany and concentration camps in your header.
After looking at your intererary, I think you should get a map and mark out your trip. You seem to going here and there, not logical.
You don't need a whole day for Dachau. 1/2 day is enough. It is a simple S-Bahn trip from Munich. It's a MUST DO!!
Repost, please.
Curious
Your header still does't tell us what you are looking for. You should include Germany and concentration camps in your header.
After looking at your intererary, I think you should get a map and mark out your trip. You seem to going here and there, not logical.
You don't need a whole day for Dachau. 1/2 day is enough. It is a simple S-Bahn trip from Munich. It's a MUST DO!!
Repost, please.
Curious
Mar 18th, 2004, 11:43 AM
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I don't quite understand why you feel you must "balance" the concentration camp visit with some activity that shows the beauty of Germany. There's something about that comment that just doesn't seem right to me.
I, for one, admire your daughter for wanting to include in your trip.
I, for one, admire your daughter for wanting to include in your trip.
Mar 18th, 2004, 12:28 PM
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It sounds like a good trip, but not worth the 5 hours north and 5 hours south to Munich if you will only stay one day along the Rhine. Stay at least 2.
The boat takes about 45 minutes between Bingen and Bacharach and about 3 hours between Bacharach and Koblenz.
Along the Rhine, I would recommend only riding a couple of hours or so on the boat, then getting off and really seeing some things. Bacharach is cute, but quiet, and there are many other small towns to visit and sights. There's a very interesting WW II museum north of Koblenz in Remagen if your daughter (or you) has an interest (my teen daughter thought it was great): www.bruecke-remagen.de . Also, tour Marksburg Castle in Braubach, south of Koblenz on the east bank; it's accessible from Koblenz by train, or ferry over from west bank in St. Goar and continue north by train: www.roadstoruins.com/marksburg.htm
The Dachau experience is moving and will be very unsettling, as it's intended to be, but it's an experience I think all visitors to Germany should have if they care to confront the truth about recent human history. Just don't plan to do much else on that day.
The boat takes about 45 minutes between Bingen and Bacharach and about 3 hours between Bacharach and Koblenz.
Along the Rhine, I would recommend only riding a couple of hours or so on the boat, then getting off and really seeing some things. Bacharach is cute, but quiet, and there are many other small towns to visit and sights. There's a very interesting WW II museum north of Koblenz in Remagen if your daughter (or you) has an interest (my teen daughter thought it was great): www.bruecke-remagen.de . Also, tour Marksburg Castle in Braubach, south of Koblenz on the east bank; it's accessible from Koblenz by train, or ferry over from west bank in St. Goar and continue north by train: www.roadstoruins.com/marksburg.htm
The Dachau experience is moving and will be very unsettling, as it's intended to be, but it's an experience I think all visitors to Germany should have if they care to confront the truth about recent human history. Just don't plan to do much else on that day.
Mar 18th, 2004, 06:27 PM
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Thanks, Russ. That's very helpful. I must have misread the schedule from Bacharach to Koblenz, but 3 hours actually makes it better, considering how far we're going to cruise the Rhine. Yes, I agree that a day would be too short, so I'll plan to at least another day (or two). We'll be staying at hostels whenever we can. There's a castle in Bacharach that's used now as a hostel - that's part of my motive for stopping there.
Howard, I also have an 11 year old son who simply requested "Germany" as part of our itinerary. I expect that Dauchau will make quite an impression and I think it's very important that it not be his only impression.
Howard, I also have an 11 year old son who simply requested "Germany" as part of our itinerary. I expect that Dauchau will make quite an impression and I think it's very important that it not be his only impression.
Mar 18th, 2004, 07:30 PM
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Bacharach's castle has been a hostel for a while - I stayed there myself 30 years ago. It's very popular - book well in advance. I hiked up to the place this November again for fun. It's a steep climb that exhausts most 20-year-olds with packs and discourages frequent coming and going, so when I hostel in the area, I often end up at the St. Goar hostel, which might work for you if you get shut out or you don't want to deal with the hike up and down as you come and go. In November, I was there with my daughter. We had reserved a family room with bath (simple but okay) which came with a good breakfast for next to nothing. The hostel has a spectacular view of the town, the river, and the castles and vineyards on the opposite side, and is easily gotten to on foot from the station or the center of town.
Also, If you'll be getting around by train in the area, buy a daypass rather than adding days to your railpass (if using these) or buying regular tickets. A weekday daypass costs 21 euros and covers an entire family 28 for Euros on Sat or Sun.) You can read about the Happy Weekend ticket at this page (see link to Länder Tickets for the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket, the weekday pass for this region.)
http://www.bahn.de/pv/view/int_guest...national.shtml
Enjoy your trip.
Also, If you'll be getting around by train in the area, buy a daypass rather than adding days to your railpass (if using these) or buying regular tickets. A weekday daypass costs 21 euros and covers an entire family 28 for Euros on Sat or Sun.) You can read about the Happy Weekend ticket at this page (see link to Länder Tickets for the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket, the weekday pass for this region.)
http://www.bahn.de/pv/view/int_guest...national.shtml
Enjoy your trip.
Mar 18th, 2004, 07:44 PM
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If travelling Luzern - Venice, why not go in a straighter line? Not that a "diversion" up to Bingen & Bacharach wouldn't be great, but how realistic is it is if you only have 7 days? A straighter line through Bavarian Alps, Munich & Salzburg would be easier, and the "balance" you are seeking could be achieved by doing Dachau and Neuschwanstein.
Mar 19th, 2004, 06:13 PM
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Neuschwanstein is a very different kind of castle and kind of experience. It is extremely popular - probably the most visited site in all Germany. The castle was built a little over 100 years ago and didn't see but a few months of use from its bulder, King Ludwig, before he expired. It is a spectacular sight in a spectacular setting, but historically not terribly important or representative of real life in Europe at a given time. I enjoyed seeing the place but did not enjoy the tour. It was packed, the guides spoke only marginally intelligible English, and I really didn't learn much there simply because the tour is all about Ludwig, really. The place is very busy as a rule and I felt a very much as like I was at Disneyland somehow. Maybe it was the souvenir shops, I don't know.
I think if you have an interest in exploring the region south of Munich that N'stein could be part of that venture, but I am not one who recommends going to the area just to see N'stein.
The Rhineland castles tend to give you a better picture of medieval life. From the river, the castles between Bingen and Koblenz are quite stunning. For a short stay like yours, tours of Marksburg and Rheinfels in St. Goar would probably be good. You could also see Burg Eltz, maybe the best castle tour I know of, just west of Koblenz on the Mosel River: www.burg-eltz.de . It is a little time-consuming to get there without a car, however, as it involves a (very pleasant) 1-hr. walk through the woods each way from the nearest train station. Very much worth it, but not if you don't have the time. There's something very special to me about visiting these castles that have stood for 800-1000 years and witnessed so much history. I would go there if you have the time.
I think if you have an interest in exploring the region south of Munich that N'stein could be part of that venture, but I am not one who recommends going to the area just to see N'stein.
The Rhineland castles tend to give you a better picture of medieval life. From the river, the castles between Bingen and Koblenz are quite stunning. For a short stay like yours, tours of Marksburg and Rheinfels in St. Goar would probably be good. You could also see Burg Eltz, maybe the best castle tour I know of, just west of Koblenz on the Mosel River: www.burg-eltz.de . It is a little time-consuming to get there without a car, however, as it involves a (very pleasant) 1-hr. walk through the woods each way from the nearest train station. Very much worth it, but not if you don't have the time. There's something very special to me about visiting these castles that have stood for 800-1000 years and witnessed so much history. I would go there if you have the time.
Mar 19th, 2004, 08:09 PM
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Thanks, Russ - your detailed descriptions and advice are very much appreciated. But I'm still wrestling with the question of whether I have enough time to make this particular destination worthwhile. I can certainly spend a couple of nights, but not much more than that. I'm more interested in the overall experience (the stunning section you describe) than touring (more than a couple) individual castles. (I read a very funny post from a teen about how a teen's attention span for castle tours can be measured in nanoseconds.)
Thanks for the info on Neuschwanstein; it doesn't sound like my kind of place. What do you know about Dinkelbuhl? The town sounds quite pretty and the 3D museum is just the kind of oddity I gravitate toward - but I read that it gets overrun, too.
What I'm trying to gauge is what my other options are. That is, what might I find between Lucern and Munich? Suggestions about what to do/see between (or near) this route would help me weigh my options.
Thanks for the info on Neuschwanstein; it doesn't sound like my kind of place. What do you know about Dinkelbuhl? The town sounds quite pretty and the 3D museum is just the kind of oddity I gravitate toward - but I read that it gets overrun, too.
What I'm trying to gauge is what my other options are. That is, what might I find between Lucern and Munich? Suggestions about what to do/see between (or near) this route would help me weigh my options.
Mar 20th, 2004, 05:15 AM
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Kids can all be different, I guess, but Eltz Castle was the absolute "bomb" for my teen daughter.
The Rheinland is unique and you won't find much of anything like it between Munich and Luzern. I think if you have 7 days altogether and want to give the area a cursory look on a 2-night stay that you'll probably have a good time. Get an early start out of Luzern and do your Rhine cruise that afternoon if it's not too hot. On your second day, I'd suggest heading from Bacharach on a daytrip to Cochem. This route will take you north through the Rhine gorge for a second glance at the castles and then west along the windy and pretty Mosel River after a change in Koblenz. You'll do some more castle-spotting on the way here too. Cochem is easy to get to and easy to tour on foot, and it's one of the most attractive spots in the region, with a cobblestoned old town center and its own castle overlooking the river. You can spend as much or as little time there as you like, but I'm thinking the kids might enjoy the chairlift ride up to the peak that overlooks the town and river. There's a cafe up top as well with a fabulous view. Go to this page:
www.mosel-reisefuehrer.de/cochem.htm
Don't worry that it's in German; just click on the photo of the chair ride at the bottom and you'll get to some more photos with a brief description in English.
You don't have to tour the castle (although it is worthwhile IMO.) However, I do suggest you walk or shuttle up there for the view and possibly to take in the falconry show. Several times per day the trained eagles, falcons, etc. are set free by a trainer to perform some swooping, free-flight stuntwork that we found fascinating.
If you decide to keep to the Luzern-to-Munich route, you might consider staying somewhere on Lake Constance. It's a nice place for scenery and relaxing, mostly. We had a fun week there ourselves a few years back in a village near Radolfzell. We rented bikes, took daytrips, and relaxed on the beach. Linday, on the east end of the lake, is a very pretty island town worth a stop. On the way from there into Munich, Memmingen is an attractive old walled town to visit too. It's an attractive train ride from Constance to Munich most of the way, but I think that a short visit to the Rheinland will probably be more memorable both for you and the kids.
The Rheinland is unique and you won't find much of anything like it between Munich and Luzern. I think if you have 7 days altogether and want to give the area a cursory look on a 2-night stay that you'll probably have a good time. Get an early start out of Luzern and do your Rhine cruise that afternoon if it's not too hot. On your second day, I'd suggest heading from Bacharach on a daytrip to Cochem. This route will take you north through the Rhine gorge for a second glance at the castles and then west along the windy and pretty Mosel River after a change in Koblenz. You'll do some more castle-spotting on the way here too. Cochem is easy to get to and easy to tour on foot, and it's one of the most attractive spots in the region, with a cobblestoned old town center and its own castle overlooking the river. You can spend as much or as little time there as you like, but I'm thinking the kids might enjoy the chairlift ride up to the peak that overlooks the town and river. There's a cafe up top as well with a fabulous view. Go to this page:
www.mosel-reisefuehrer.de/cochem.htm
Don't worry that it's in German; just click on the photo of the chair ride at the bottom and you'll get to some more photos with a brief description in English.
You don't have to tour the castle (although it is worthwhile IMO.) However, I do suggest you walk or shuttle up there for the view and possibly to take in the falconry show. Several times per day the trained eagles, falcons, etc. are set free by a trainer to perform some swooping, free-flight stuntwork that we found fascinating.
If you decide to keep to the Luzern-to-Munich route, you might consider staying somewhere on Lake Constance. It's a nice place for scenery and relaxing, mostly. We had a fun week there ourselves a few years back in a village near Radolfzell. We rented bikes, took daytrips, and relaxed on the beach. Linday, on the east end of the lake, is a very pretty island town worth a stop. On the way from there into Munich, Memmingen is an attractive old walled town to visit too. It's an attractive train ride from Constance to Munich most of the way, but I think that a short visit to the Rheinland will probably be more memorable both for you and the kids.
