yestravel

Just to add to progol's response to kja -- I think reading guide books is very different than getting personal recommendations. To me the value of these boards is hearing from a variety of individuals what they liked. Even if some aren't precisely what the poster is looking for, they benefit others. I picked up many suggestions that I will use on our next trip back to Rome. If someone doesn't feel they can answer because they don't have enough info from the poster they can pass on responding or ask specific questions which might help them respond.

mikedallas23

Ostia Antica is worth a day trip as well if you enjoy Roman ruins, and not crowded at all. There were parts of the grounds where we literally couldn't see anybody else once we got off the main path. We stayed in the Campo De Fiori area and loved it, our two favorite restaurants within walking distance were Renato E Luisa and La Pace del Palato. Lots of other great suggestions in this thread but I would give a double-thumbs up to Villa Farnesina and Palazzo Massimo alle Terme. Very low crowds at both also, for example we got to spend all the time we wanted right next to this guy that you may recognize:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_at_Rest

bvlenci

Bernini and Borromini, whose work you can compare at the Palazzo Barberini and at the churches San Carlo alle Quattro Fontane and Sant'Andrea al Quirinale, were rivals. Bernini reportedly persecuted Borromeo and cut him out of some work. Borromini committed suicide, not that Bernini had anything to do with that; he apparently was always a gloomy sort.

A great many of the statues in Palazzo Altemps (near Piazza Navona), one of the sites of the National Roman Museum, were "reconstructed" from pieces of unrelated statues: a statue missing an arm was fitted with an arm missing a statue, and so forth. Others were repaired by new additions. The most interesting piece there is the Ludovisi throne, which is probably part of an ancient Greek altar rather than a throne. The palazzo itself is attractive, with a courtyard in the center. It's nicely lit at night, but most of the year it's not open late enough to see that.

The Crypta Balbi site(near Largo Argentina) focuses on the story of the building and neighborhood through the centuries, when it was first part of an ancient theatre, later a school, a nunnery, and I forget what else. It's one of the few places in Rome where you can get any idea of medieval Rome. There is an interesting exhibit that shows how the city shrank in size after the fall of the empire. The area around the Crypta Balbi became open farmland before the city started to grow again. One interesting thing is that in ancient times, this was Rome's theatre district, with the nearby Pompey's theatre, and it's still got a theatre or two, the Argentino. Don't miss the ancient forum which you can view from above at Largo Argentina. The portico of Pompey's theatre forms one side of the site, and this is supposed to be where Julius Caesar was assassinated.

The fourth site of the National Roman Museum is the Museum of the Baths of Diocletian, near Termini station (on the opposite size of the huge piazzale from Palazzo Massimo). This is a museum that fascinates me, although others may not find it so interesting. The museum has a permanent exhibit about the history of writing in Rome, including the tools, the media, and the subject matter of writing from the very early times, when letters were crudely carved in stone. They also have some temporary exhibits. When you enter, you'll see a large brick hall on your left. This is an intact hall from the ancient Baths of Diocletian, one of the largest Roman bath complexes ever built, which covered a good part of the neighborhood of Termini station. In fact, the station area was named Termini before the station was built (Italian "baths" = "terme"). (Termini has nothing to do with the word "terminal".)

We once attempted to visit the Quirinale, but it was closed at the last minute for "reasons of state". It's the official residence of the president of Italy, and before the republic it was the Roman residence of the king. They have a changing of the guard, but nothing like that at Buckingham Palace. On the other hand, you can actually see this one without trampling old ladies and children.

progol

yestravel - thanks so much for your comments - it's so true, the personal experience makes a huge difference in planning. I might read something in a book, but until I hear or read other people's experiences, I don't necessarily have enough of a feeling about a particular sight or location. So guidebooks are helpful, but these boards are invaluable for so much more.

mikedallas - thanks for your feedback and recommendations. So good to have restaurants that are within walking distance, so those are much appreciated. And I will definitely make sure that we get to the Villa Farnesina (looks amazing) and Palazzo Massimo. Both seem recommended very frequently - must mean something, right?!

bvienci, What can I say but thanks again! I so appreciate the details and your commentary - this really gives me wonderful images of the places you describe, and a good appreciation of the depth and complexity of these sites, and of Rome in general. It makes these places come alive in my mind.

jscarbary

I know that you said no "Standard Fare" but when you were in Rome last did you get a chance to do the Scavi tour at the Vatican? If not I would definitely recommend it. It is a walk through a first century necropolis with St. Peter at the end of the tour. Not sure if the St. Peter part is important to you but to me the beauty of Ancient Rome is just wandering in the footsteps of so many people throughout history all just like you and me just at different times. We loved the Baths of Caracalla and Trajan's Market for the exact same reasons. We walked through Trajan's Market on a grayish rainy day and it was pretty empty. Every once in a while when we would walk through another door we saw the cars and people along the Via Fori Imperiali (sp?) but again it was like we were just a little bit lost in time.

progol

Hi, jscarbary,

Thanks, I didn't get to the Scavi tour last time but I do have reservations in hand (mentioned in my initial post) and I'm very excited about this. I agree, walking "in the footsteps" where the early Romans have walked is a thrilling feeling, imagining what it was like when it was not so ancient. We would love to see the Baths of Caracalla and Trajan's Market -- so glad that you found it so moving. I suspect we will as well.

Paule

kja

I want to apologize if my earlier comment seemed critical of the value of this forum or the insights so many people generously offer. I’ve certainly benefitted enormously from my fellow Fodorites over the years! I recognize that there are many ways to approach traveling and trip research, and I realize -- all too well! -- that work can interfere with planning. I’ve been very fortunate over the years to see some things that I learned about through guidebooks and that are never, or almost never, mentioned. I just wanted that experience for you, too, particularly when you have the luxury of 8 whole days in magnificent Rome! I’m sure you’ll have a wonderful trip and trust that it will provide the break you need.

bvlenci

If you visit Trajan's Market, be sure to visit the Via Biberatica. This is outside, but you can only reach it from inside the museum. It's a well-preserved ancient Roman street, with ancient paving blocks, and shop fronts. You can see the grooves in the threshholds that supported the wooden shutters used to close the shops at night. There's a hole at one end of the threshold; the last shutter had a pole which fit in this hole and allowed that shutter to swing shut like a door. The shopkeeper shut it from the inside, barred it, and went up a ladder to his living quarters above the shop.

I forgot to mention something in my earlier post. The ancient hall at the Diocletian bath museum has two Roman painted tombs inside. These were discovered in the Testaccio district in the mid-20th century, and transported to the museum. One of them has a fresco showing people in the afterlife. An adult in the picture is shown using a walker of the type ancient Roman toddlers used to help them learn to walk. Apparently it was thought that in the afterlife people would have to relearn all their skills. You used to be able to enter these tombs, but now there's a sort of fence, and you have to peer in the window from behind the fence.

yestravel

That's interesting, kja. I find the opposite to be true -- on these boards I find sites or places that are never mentioned in guidebooks. By and large I find guidebooks stick to the top run sites with a nod to "off the beaten path" for lack of a better word. And for accommodations and restaurants the boards can't be beat. I just think the travel boards provide a very different perspective and insights that one can't get from a guide book. As one who doesn't always give alot of parameters or info when posting a question, I still find the responses I get very useful, sometimes more so than when I define what I am looking for. You know, you don't know what you don't know

annhig

It is a walk through a first century necropolis with St. Peter at the end of the tour. Not sure if the St. Peter part is important to you but to me the beauty of Ancient Rome is just wandering in the footsteps of so many people throughout history all just like you and me just at different times. >>

It certainly had a profound effect on me, perhaps heightened by the fact that as we reached the chapel next to the crypt where the bones of St Peter are [allegedly] preserved, the choir started singing the beginning of the midday mass in the Basilica above. Even this old atheist was moved.

kja

@ yestravel: I’m not disputing the value of this board – I wholeheartedly agree there is a great deal to be gained by learning the perspectives and insights of other travelers! I feel fortunate to be able to call upon my fellow Fodorites for their wisdom and experience, and I have definitely learned about some things through their comments. I find that the wealth of information available on this board is an incredibly valuable supplement to (rather than replacement for) my use of guidebooks -- just my experience. And not all guidebooks are equal! The ones in which I am most likely to find places not elsewhere covered are the <i>Rough Guide, Lonely Planet</i>, and <i>Michelin Green Guide</i>. (I don’t use guidebooks for accommodations or restaurants.)

bvlenci

Yestravel, some guidebooks mention only the "top ten" sorts of sights, but any decent guidebook has every one of the places mentioned above, plus their opening hours, ticket prices, and which bus to take. You have to check these details, because a guidebook can we out of date, but so can we Fodors members be even more out of date.

A good guide for planning purposes is the DK Eyewitness series, which has lots of photos. For taking on the trip, I prefer the Michelin Green Guide, which has few illustrations, but more details, weighs a lot less, and can fit in a decent-sized pocket.

People seem to have very short attention spans these days, so all the guide companies are also coming out with top-ten versions of their guides, but it pays to invest a little time reading a good, detailed guide. How many weeks did you have to work to pay for the trip, after all?

Good guide books also have suggested walking tours, recommended groupings of sites, and theme-based ideas.

yestravel

Absolutely agree that guidebooks are essential. I find that different books are good for different destinations. Hate the top 10 versions!

Back to progol's planning for Rome. Sorry to take you off track!

progol

I'm enjoying the off-topic comments as much as the information people are sharing about Rome!

kja - thanks for your apology -- I certainly wouldn't go without using a guide, but my experience is much like yestravel's -- there is much shared on the boards that are not necessarily written about in guidebooks. I understand what you're saying, though -- there are times I've found a "hidden treasure" in one guidebook or another, but in all honesty, there have been fewer and fewer over the years as more people write on various travel board. The amount of information listed here, for instance, will, I suspect, keep us busy all week, and we probably won't have time to see everything recommended.

yestravel, again, thanks for your comments -- as I said above, my experience is very similar to yours; I often read about places on the travel boards that I might not find in a book. Or, more likely, it will "come alive" when I read about it in someone's trip report or in answer to my questions!

bvienci, you are outdoing yourself here -- I so appreciate the descriptions that are making these sights come alive. I will make sure that we visit Via Biberatica from Trajan's Market -- the little details (the shopkeeper closing his shutter!) makes it feel so alive. And I'm loving your description of the frescos in the painted tombs at the Diocletian bath museum!

annhig -- I'd've felt pretty much the same way if I heard the choir singing as I approached St Peter's crypt, and I'm an old atheist, too! I may not be a believer, but I still find power and beauty in the works of art.

CaliNurse

On one hand, you're admonished to tell us more about what you've already done and seen, lest someone bypass your post because it's too "general" in nature ("oh, please."). Yet after you indicated (January 15, 1:35 pm) you've already been to Villa Borghese, kja recommends seeing it.

I'm not usually this compulsive about time/date. Here, it's my response to words which, perhaps in an attempt to be helpful, come across instead as gratuitous finger-wagging.

When people post questions, and want suggestions, I offer them in hopes it will help not just the OP, but perhaps someone referring to this board in future who seeks information. What's the big deal if, heaven forbid, someone mentions a place that the OP has already seen??

In that vein, Progol...you may have already seen this on your former Rome trip, but I'll risk repetition. We loved visiting the synagogue, near Bocca del Verita. Tours are given, but we didnt have to reserve. What could easily have been missed is the small adjacent museum. It displays, among other items, the bullet-marked Bible which saved the life of a worshipper in the 1982 terrorist attack during a holiday service. (A two yr old child wasn't as fortunate.)

If you're near the Trevi Fountain, the gelato at San Crispino is fantastic---our favorite in Italy.

Have a wonderful trip! It'll be interesting to see how much, or if, Rome has changed in 18 years!

kja

@ CaliNurse: Yes, I missed that. My bad. Perhaps you missed my apology and my attempt to explain my intent, which was to be helpful?

@ progol: My apologies for once again engaging in an off-topic aside. And again, my apologies for my very poorly phrased comment. My intent was to suggest a strategy for identifying places that aren't "standard fare" that might be of particular interest to <b>you</b> -- a strategy that has worked very well for me. You have patiently helped me understand your approach, and with the generous and gracious help of the many Fodorites who have offered suggestions, I'm sure you will have a fabulous time in Rome.

Fantazy

As it is your second visit, I would take day trips to Assisi for example. You could also spend a night or two in Firenze.
As for Roman attraction I recommend the Castel Sant' Angelo, a dinner or the Tiber or enjoy the view from the cupola in Vatican city.
Never worry about what to eat in Italy, the food is great everywhere

annhig

Fantazy - sorry to have to disagree with you about Castel Sant 'Angelo which we found pretty boring apart from the nice views from the cafe. would you mind telling me what makes you recommend it? I'd like to know what I missed.

For a day trip i think that Assisi is too far but Orvieto is about an hour which is the furthest I'd want to go if I'd only got 8 days there.

EYWandBTV

Castel Sant'Angelo, or Hadrian's Tomb: I'm a fan. It is so steeped in the history of the Empire and the Papacy it was a thrill to walk through the structure. Loved visiting this huge structure and walking through what was once the mausoleum of Emperor Hadrian. Goths and Vandals smashed their way through it as the empire felll to pieces, Popes used it for refuge, especially during the Sack of Rome in 1527. You can see the treasury room where the wealth of the Papacy was stored at one point. Pleasant cafe and terrific views from the top (Tosca once again--she jumps off the battlements to her death in Act III).

annhig

mmm - EYWandBTV - I'm still not getting it. we felt that there was very little to look at inside [lots of big and more or less empty spaces] apart from the armoury which was the usual pikes and swords etc.

perhaps I lack imagination.