hello! thanks for all the good information so far - my boyfriend and I are planning a trip to Germany in early April. We're flying into Amsterdam, spending one night and the next day taking the train down to St. Goar to spend 5 days there as a base with side train and boat and biking and hiking trips. At your suggestion I have been doing the math to find out if I should get a BeNeLux-Germany pass or a Germany 4 day Twin Pass or just buy as I go and right now it's looking like a toss up. I really like the idea of flexibility and not setting reservations in stone so I don't know if that would be a factor. Also, the KD runs year round right? From what I can make out on the site it does but I'm still new to reading timetables. Thanks again for all of your help!

Are you also flying OUT of A'dam, or doing open jaws? That will impact the train advice you get.

A one-way ticket A'dam to Koblenz (near St. Goar) will be around $75 each.

Once in St. Goar, you can get around there for less than 30 Euros per day for both of you on one "Rheinland-Pfalz" ticket (daypass for regional trains.) It will cover over to Trier, south to Karlsruhe, north to Bonn.

You don't have to make advance reservations for point-to-point tickets or daypasses. Just buy them at the station. The daypasses in Germany can be bought from machines by credit card or cash in the smaller, unmanned stations like St. Goar.

Yes - we will be heading back to A'dam on the 16th to fly out on the 17th depending on flights (pass fare travel, which is a whole other website!)
Does that change the whole picture? Thanks again - planning is fun but my eyes are starting to cross.

I don't think the Benlux-Germany pass is worth it for you ($235each for 5 days). But the Germany saver pass might be ($169 each for 4 days). It doesn't cost that much to go from Amsterdam to the border to justify the difference.

With the 4 day, you could use one day for the day you travel from Amsterdam to St.Goar. (Buy the Amsterdam to the border ticket separately). On your way, stop in Koln for an hour or two to visit the cathedral. The train station is right next door and there are fancy lockers in the train station for your bags. Use another day for your trip back (again buying the portion outside of Germany separately). Use the other two days on days that you will be riding the KD line boats. You pass is good for these trips (aswell as trains on those days). Any other days that you will just be taking the train, buy the 30EUR Rhineland pass that Russ mentioned.

I know you have it planned, but we really preferred Cochem (on the Mosel) to St.Goar as a base. Just something to think about!

But don't expect the Rheinland-Pfalz pass to get you to Bonn or Cologne. They're miles north of the Land border.

And be aware (beware) that the rail passes only cover K-D steamers, and NOT their "partner shiplines." That one bit me a couple of years ago. Didn't exactly cost a bundle for the 5 of us (we only rode from Remagen to Cologne), but was nonetheless annoying.

Russ wrote:

"Once in St. Goar, you can get around there for less than 30 Euros per day for both of you on one "Rheinland-Pfalz" ticket (daypass for regional trains.) It will cover over to Trier, south to Karlsruhe, north to Bonn."

To follow up on Robespierre's comment on the R-P ticket (daypass)... Cologne is NOT covered, but Bonn IS covered. Bonn, Karlsruhe, and several other cities just outside R-P that are covered by the R-P pass. Here's a map of the area of coverage; - look for the yellow dots.

http://www.der-takt.de/fileadmin/Bil...rp_ticket.html

I agree w/ muffin that Cochem is delightful, but having overnighted in both on several occasions, I think St. Goar is equally delightful in its own way. The hiking around St. Goar is especially scenic.

<i>Vielen dank!</i> That's good to know (but not very consistent with that German sense of order).

Thanks for the help! I'm getting super excited already and I've only been planning for a week. I think we'll do the German Twin Pass for our trip and start from there. I am interested in the Mosel - easy to get to via train? The only thing that's currently planned is that we're flying in and out of A'dam and that we want to see the Rhine River Valley. Everything else is up for grabs. I think our only wish is to have a &quot;base camp&quot; we like the idea of being in one place and going from there. We'll be relying on trains, boats and our own manpower so any suggestions on a base camp would be great as well. I selected St. Goar really quite by accident and am open to any and all suggestions.

Hi Russ - thanks for the train info - I just printed out the link you sent and I have a question - with the P-R pass I can travel anywhere on the map you sent but the terminal points are the yellow dots? Am I reading that right? thanks again.

The yellow dots are stations outside the region that are nonetheless accessible with the pass.

Yes, travel to any of those places is okay - the R-P pass is actually 25 Euros, good weekdays after 9 am, anytime on Sat or Sun, on the RE and RB trains (almost all trains that stop in smaller towns along the Rhine and Mosel rivers are RE and RB trains.)

Base town: Because you have 5 days, I actually think you'd be best off splitting your time up - 2-3 days each in Cochem AND St. Goar. St. Goar has the most scenic setting of the Rhine villages and is better than many other options because there's a ferry across to another town (St. Goarshausen) with a train station. Cochem on the middle Mosel is the most logical and atmospheric town for train travel there. Koblenz is the best base for train travel on BOTH the Rhine and Mosel if you must stay in one place since you have to change trains there if you're staying elsewhere - stay there if you want a larger city with a little nightlife - but it's not nearly as full of character as the smaller villages.

We're planning a similar trip for October, flying in and out of A'dam, but spending 13 days exploring the Rhineland and Baden-Wurttemburg areas. We are planning 2 nights in Cochem and 2-3 nights in St Goar.

Russ - How often does the ferry cross from St Goar to St Goarshausen? Is there a web site where I can find a schedule? Are there other ferries that cross to other towns along the Rhine (Bingen to Koblenz section)?

Now that I know about the ferry, it will add a whole new twist to exploring the area. Thanks for the info. Peace, Robyn &gt;-

We used St. Goar as a base about a year ago on a castle seeing trip and if I recall correctly, the ferry was about every hour. In any case, it was frequent. It takes cars and we used it twice. I agree with Russ in his suggestions. As long as you are in the general area, the Mosel should not be missed. Consider renting a car for a day or two once you are there.

The St. Goar-St. Goarshausen ferry operates year round all day long from 6 or 7 a.m. until late in the evening - 9:00 or 11:00 p.m., depending on the season. It is constantly shuttling back and forth as needed so I'm sure you can count on a ride across within 15 minutes or so.

Here's a list of all the Rhine ferries with the km notation and the towns served.

* Stromkilometer 528: Autof&auml;hre Bingen ↔ R&uuml;desheim

* Stromkilometer 539: Rheinf&auml;hre Lorch ↔ Niederheimbach

* Stromkilometer 546: Rheinf&auml;hre Kaub ↔ Engelsburg

* Stromkilometer 556: Autof&auml;hre St. Goar ↔ St. Goarshausen

* Stromkilometer 566: Rheinf&auml;hre Bornhofen ↔ Bad Salzig

* Stromkilometer 570: Rheinf&auml;hre Filsen ↔ Boppard

* Stromkilometer 592: Rheinf&auml;hre Koblenz ↔ Ehrenbreitstein

* Stromkilometer 623: Autof&auml;hre Bad H&ouml;nningen ↔ Bad Breisig

* Stromkilometer 624: Personenf&auml;hre Bad H&ouml;nningen ↔ Bad Breisig

* Stromkilometer 630: Autof&auml;hre Linz ↔ Kripp

* Stromkilometer 634: Personenf&auml;hre Erpel ↔ Remagen

* Stromkilometer 640: Autof&auml;hre Bad Honnef ↔ Rolandseck[[1]]

* Stromkilometer 645: Autof&auml;hre K&ouml;nigswinter ↔ Bonn-Bad Godesberg (Ortsteil Mehlem)

* Stromkilometer 648: Autof&auml;hre K&ouml;nigswinter-Niederdollendorf ↔ Bonn-Bad Godesberg (Ortsteil Plittersdorf)

* Stromkilometer 655: Personenf&auml;hre Bonn-Beuel ↔ Bonn

Hi Russ, I can't thank you enough for all the help, it's like having my own tour guide! On another post regarding the Rhine I noticed you suggested Walter Huppertz and his apartments - right now I've secured the Rhine View for 5 days but may shorten that to 3 days and look for another place in Cochem for 2 days. So, if I may ask even MORE questions - got a suggestion for nice place to stay in Cochem with the similar price range to Mr. Huppertz?

I'm off work right now and am enjoying killing a little time - happy to help.

I usually stay at private B&amp;B's. Haus Hilken in Cochem - stayed there several years ago. Frau Hilken is pretty old now but her place is still listed with Cochem's tourist office - small, simple rooms but very tidy and with crispy sheets, terrific German breakfast, great location just off the old town market square on Loehrstrasse, should be around 20 Euros per person:

TI: http://cochem.de/tourism/
Haus Hilken: L&ouml;hrstra&szlig;e 20 56812 Cochem
Tel. 02671/3254

Just up the street, Haus Mattes is great too - you may get a full living room and balcony with your stay.

Haus Mattes: L&ouml;hrstrasse 34 56812 Cochem
Tel. 02671/5448

Both places are close to town and on a path up to Reichsburg castle.

The Mattes are in their 70's and can manage a little rudimentary English; not sure about Frau Hilken.

Check Bavaria Ben's suggestions too. I think he has something on Haus Andreas in Cochem.

www.bensbauernhof.com

Thanks, Russ, for the information. Have a great day! Peace, Robyn &gt;-

I think you need to do some very careful consideration about the cost of travel. With a little planning, I am not so sure a railpass would pay.

It looks to me like the difference between a train fare from Amsterdam to Cochem minus the fare from Amsterdam to the border is about &euro;27 per person. That's what you would be saving by using the first day of you railpass.

The Verkehrsverbund (transit district) Rhein-Mosel covers most of the scenic part of Rhein/Mosel, down the Rhein from Oberwesel/Kaub to Rolandseck and the Mosel up past Cochem to Bullay. Their website is at www.vrm-info.de. The system map is at http://www.vrminfo.de/vrm/pdf/downlo...ennetzplan.pdf.

As long as you stay in the VRM, a minigruppenkarte will cover all your (up to 5 people) rail and bus transportation for a day for &euro;19,60 (&euro;9,80 per person for two). If you go up to Bacharach, you would need a RLP Ticket or Bahn tickets for &euro;2,90 one way per person.

Even if you go out of the VRM, the &euro;25 Rheinland-Pfalz (RLP) Ticket (&euro;12,50 per person for two) covers your RT all the way up the Mosel to Trier or all the way up the Rhein to Mainz/Wiesbaden or over to Mannheim or Karlsruhe.

If you work your way up the Rhein to Frankfurt, with a Europa-Spezial Ticket (3 day advance purchase), your trip back to Amsterdam is only &euro;39. From K&ouml;ln to Amsterdam it's only &euro;19.