Weadles

Did you really mean summer of 2016? If so, your 20-year-old may be one of the lucky ones who has a job. Can't quite imagine my kids- both in their 20s- having more than about a week at a time to travel, and whether they'd want to spend their precious vacation time with their family instead of friends is questionable.

Also I agree with other posters above who say less is more. If you try to cram it all in, it's going to turn into National Lampoon's VACATION.

You have a lot of time to figure this out. And between then and now your kids may change their minds about it 100 times. I would figure out closer to your departure date who is actually going with you, what their prime interests are, and try to build the trip around that.

And yes, if you are really going to Europe in the summer, you must book accommodations ahead, especially if there are really six of you going! Good luck!

otherchelebi

All our trips with our two daughters have been tremendous fun within Turkey, within the United States, within United Kingdom, to Thailand, to France, to Italy and to Spain, at all ages. However, we have only two children and that made the car rental and the lodging much easier. We rented cars in all these countries and do not remember any major problems with parking or any tickets.

Everyone above have excellent recommendations and I know that you will be inundated by even more good ones. As long as you are not paranoid and trust yourself and your family, the recommendations should help you a great deal.

Here's how I would tackle it :

1. If all the countries are in the must visit list, I would pick only one city in at least two of them, not drive around in those countries and not spend more than 3 nights in each.
2. I would make all country connections via air to save time.
3. I would pick two or three countries for extensive domestic sightseeing and plan to spend at least five days each outside the capital cities of those countries (Turkey, Italy or Spain)
4. The least touristic areas will be in Turkey.
5. Possibly, the best beaches will be in Turkey.
6. The most unusual sites and the oldest ruins (neolithic, Hittite, Phrygian, Lician, Lidian, Karian, Bithynian, Trojan, Greek, Roman will be in Turkey.
7. The best art will be in France, Italy, Spain and it is difficult to say which would be more interesting.
8. My favorite architecture is in Spain.
9. The friendliest population are the Turks, followed by the Italians.
10. Paris and Turkey will be the locations where you will have the least language problems. ( in Turkey because people will go out of their way to assist even if they do not speak English) Parisians will respond in English if required to even if they may not like it. The Italians will also try to gesture-explain.
11. The easiest to locate night life is in Istanbul because it's most popular Summer venues, are lined up on a three mile stretch along the Bosphorus.
12. All countries will allow alcohol at age 18 and possibly below that if with parents. (Turkey may not allow below 18 even with parents)
13. Driving in the country is the most different in Turkey because it has the least motorways and you get frequently changing scenery with rural eating spots on the road side with local specialties; that is no domestic or international chains.
14. We loved the Italian Riviera and Tuscany and Rome and environs in Italy. If you have to pick one, I would find it very difficult to do so. Our older daughter separately made two other trips and liked Capri Amalfi and Sardinia.
15. In Spain, Barcelona was special for all of us because we are all Gaudi, Dali and Picasso lovers. But we also loved a one week visit to Madrid, Toledo, Cordoba, Sevilla, Malaga, Valencia and back to Madrid.
16. I think the French countryside needs more leisure and probably a theme like, castles, cuisine, wine, etc. rather than general sightseeing.

17. Some general pointers :
- start on claritine or other simple over the counter anti-histamine a few days befor trip and continue just in case any of you find that you are allergic to something, including the sun.
- be doubly careful and take precautions against dehydration
- have a enough of all medicines you are required to take plus prescriptions from your doctor for spares in case you lose them.
- take regular pain killer, antacid, bandaid, muscle rub, cold spray antibiotic ointment, dramamine, etc. with you.

15. Make sure that your kids chanfe sneakers or shoes every day or every other day.

16. Try to get them not to wear sneakers on bare feet.
17. Wear summer walking shoes or sneakers when visiting ruins, instead of sandals or flip flops.
18. Beware of pickpockets, purse, wallet, bag grabbers especially in Spain and Italy.
19. Beware of other scams, especially involving taxis, ATMs.
20. Exchange money at your destination rather than in the USA.

janisj

Didn't read the rest of the list (which probably has lots of good ideas) . . . but >><i><blue>20. Exchange money at your destination rather than in the USA.</i></blue<< is really bad advice. (though Turkey may be a special case - I've not been there)

DO NOT 'exchange' money anywhere. Use credit cards where you can and get cash from ATMs as you need. Exchanging currency (like I said - perhaps Turkey is an exception) costs much more than using ATMs.

otherchelebi

janisj, pity about your problems with reading. Using an ATM to withdraw local currency outside your country means that you are exchanging money!!!!! unless you withdraw US$ (which is not possible in most countries).

I take it for granted that travelers will use ATMs and credit cards. However, it is always a good idea to have some ready cash on you when traveling for those places which do not accept card, for emergencies, etc. Many Americans may go to their bank in the United States to buy some FX before they take off, in order to have some cash upon arrival for taxi, tip, what not. This is not a good idea a US banks give truely incredibly bad rates.

All airports have ATM machines available for you just off your plane.

On the other hand, many banks and ATMs will charge you fees which are also unnecessary to pay for small withdrawals. That is why some USD cash available to be exchanged at an exchange office or bank abroad for small amounts is always a good idea.

In Turkey, the FX shops do not charge commission and the ones in Istanbul between the Grand Bazaar and the Golden Horn will have tiny margins between buying and selling prices because they follow the markets to the minute and act as agents to the large local transactions involving the cash movement of about $20billion of warm money in Turkey.

annhig

OC - I too thought that local change offices would have bad exchange rates, until i went to Krakow - the little bureaux there gave very good exchange rates for no commission.

i hadn't thought of the explanation you give, but it makes sense.

in Sri Lanka, the best currency to have was U$ - wish we'd taken more.

janisj

<B>otherchelebi:</B> I can read just fine . . . >><blue>20. Exchange money at your destination rather than in the USA.</blue><< says exchange money at your destination. Like I said - Turkey may be an exception and it looks like it is - but for most places in Europe one should not <u>exchange</u> money anywhere. Use ATMs.

"<i>I take it for granted that travelers will use ATMs and credit cards. </i>"

Fine - you take it for granted and that is smart. However every single day we get questions about whether one should 'buy' currency before leaving home or is it better to bring US$ cash and buy/exchange for currency in Europe.

otherchelebi

I am sorry if I thought that it was very simple to understand that when you use an ATM abroad to get the local currency from the machine, you are exchanging money. And, that the transaction is taking place outside your own country.

I do not know if it is the bank that owns the ATM which converts at its rate or if it is your own bank, but either one or both are definitely charging for this money exchange, plus for the use of the ATM.

In the case of credit cards, two of my cards will send me statements in US$ and also in Euros respectively, depending on the original currency and I settle accordingly with the currency I buy at the best rate I can get in the market rather than depend on the bank to convert on their own rate which invariably includes an administrative fee or a commission.

Since, I cannot draw all of the above on this post, I cannot explain with figures. -

However, I am not rich enough to support banks and ATM owners.

janisj

>>And, that the transaction is taking place outside your own country.<<

>>I do not know if it is the bank that owns the ATM which converts at its rate<<

No -the bank disbursing the cash is doing a straight cash transaction. The "exchange" is done by the star/currus/plus network or the home bank. The disbursing bank is not involved.

>>In the case of credit cards, two of my cards will send me statements in US$ and also in Euros respectively, depending on the original currency and I settle accordingly with the currency I buy at the best rate I can get in the market rather than depend on the bank to convert on their own rate which invariably includes an administrative fee or a commission.<<

That is VERY unusual. Every US bank/credit union I know about bills in US$. They do tell you how much the original charge was in € or £ or ¥ - but the BANK converts that to US$ at whatever rate they use and that is what you owe.

(not talking about DCC -just straight foreign currency charges)

Sassafrass

Six weeks:

Is not really as much time as it seems for sight seeing/traveling around Europe, especially from country to country in hot weather.

However, it may seem like a much longer time when six people (even those who love each other) are totally tied together for six weeks, traveling at a fast pace in hot weather.

Too fast a pace for that period of time can become a big blur. Once a week or so, give yourself an extra day for some down time. If you do it someplace where you have a pool or beach, or good hiking/biking, but also good day trips, you can race along if you wish, but give the "kids" some choice. Just my opinion, but spending less time traveling and more time actually sight seeing in fewer areas would be easier on everyone, and you get more real trip for your money, rather than more real time on planes and trains.

Planning so far ahead has one great benefit. You all have time to read and learn about the things you will see. Just looking at a building can be interesting, but when I've traveled with other people, the more they knew about the place they were seeing and why it is important (history, construction, etc.), the more they seem to get out of the trip.

I agree to do/see what you want rather than what you think other people think you should see. However, do consider what you hope your kids will get out of the trip. Seeing some of the major architectural, historic and artistic sights might be quite meaningful to their lives. Have any of them been studying a language? Do any of them have a burning desire to see the Colosseum in Rome? Lots of fun time for your family to discuss and each of you to think about your interests.

Hans

"I want to cover a lot of ground traveling, flying into Istanbul jumping a flight or train to Rome traveling up through Italy to Germany then over to France then down to Spain ending in Portugal."

First, this sounds great! Personally I love wandering vacations without having everything pre-booked. You will end up with some accommodations which aren't as nice or as cheap as they could have been or at the place you would have really liked to see. But on the other hand you have the opportunity to experience things you’d have to skip if a reservation was waiting for you.

Judging from your schedule, I think you need to make some restrictions on what you can see in each country. This trip could be easily 18 weeks instead of 6, so you need to set some priorities. From my experience, it makes sense not to spend too much time in the first place and to accept that you might need to skip the last destination since you wanted to stay longer in between.

So beside the point that Turkey is a great place which would certainly be worth a road trip, I’d restrict my time only to Istanbul. It’s a fantastic city and I’d spend something as 5 days there (this time should be enough to cover for jet lag).

You need to book a flight from there (train and ferry makes no sense, neither from time nor from costs). From then on you don’t need to book a flight if you avoid destinations which don’t fit to a route. If you do, you should keep in mind that fixed dates really restrict your flexibility and might force you to skip a destination if you decide to stay longer at some other place. (I assume fixed dates since flights are really cheap if booked early but they aren’t easily rescheduled for 6 people.)

The flight from Istanbul has in my opinion three possible destinations based upon your itinerary: Rome (or further south in Italy, if you want it), Frankfurt or Munich in Germany, or Lissabon or Madrid in the Iberian peninsula. The choice might also depend on the price you can get.

If you go to Rome, you can go up to Tuscany with Florence and Sienna and then a long drive (maybe one stop) to Southern Germany with Munich, then maybe Nuremberg or Heidelberg up to the Rhine valley and then cross to France and for example wander down the Loire valley with plenty of chateaux, small inns and restaurants, camping grounds and places to pick-nick (or skip the Rhine valley and go directly via Strasbourg). Burgundy and Dijon are also easy to reach. You can end at the Atlantic beaches around Bordeaux which are great with wonderful water and waves (but watch out for the currents). This assumes that you’re willing to skip Paris.

Or you go to Frankfurt and then travel down to Rome via Tuscany and then mostly hug the coast all the way to Monaco, Nice and the Provence (Aix-en-Provence is a really nice town). You can go to the Massif Central with as much wilderness as you can find in Western Europe and great hikes and so on.

From there you can go to Spain. If I was you, I’d probably not fly out of Lissabon since this is quite a long way from the French border but I’d instead go for Madrid. If you have enough time for Spain, Madrid is probably always rather close. But if you spend too much time in the other places and just manage to reach Barcelona, you can make it in a day to Madrid without too much trouble.

If you fly from Istanbul to Madrid or Lissabon, the routes are the other way round. But personally I wouldn’t go for Italy close to the end of the journey since you need to look at some culture and that might be great for your children after week 2 but not after week 5.

Some tips:

For train connections (but not prices if the ride doesn't start or end in Germany): www.bahn.de

For hotels: www.hrs.de (there might be better sites but I use it to get an impression of prices).

Camping is a good way to find a cheap place to sleep in high season on short notice. If you don’t mind sleeping in tents and think that you and your children can carry a little weight, take them. (The weight can be a problem but these recommendations aren’t a natural law. I travelled for years with about three times the weight many posters on this board recommend and I had no issue with it. You need to decide what fits you.)

Small towns and villages are a lot cheaper than cities. Beside the point that larger cities can also be tourist attractions, they also attract business travellers which often outnumber tourists. Cities with a lot of business are often cheaper in the weekend and prices go beyond believable if there's an event like a trade fair (if you check a place and find nothing but 300 euro hotel rooms, look for the next week and prices might by very different).

Germany can be remarkably cheap in the country side even for quality hotels and restaurants.

Outside of the French summer vacations, it’s a lot cheaper and easier to find accommodations in France (you need to look them up, but August is always a killer).

If you go for large cities, travelling by train is an alternative to a car. If you go for the country-side, a car is more convenient and probably cheaper for 6 people (for example if you go for the Loire valley). Flying is often cheap if booked early enough but too many pre-booked flights kill the flexibility.

If you go to Munich, go for the beer gardens if the weather is good (you get the drinks from them but can bring your own pick-nick) and the Deutsches Museum if your children are at least a little interested in technology.

When planning, keep in mind that a day with a lot of travel is basically dead. You pack, check out of the hotel, go to the airport or train station, travel a few hours, walk to the hotel and check in again, and then it's dinner. If you leave on the next day, you won't have the time to see anything.

Assume that everything takes longer than you thought. So if you make a plan, add another 30% at every destination.

colduphere

The OP has not been here in four days. She is down to 3.5 years minus 4 days to plan her nomadic holiday. I hope she returns.