Hello all,

I've been reading this message board for a few months now and I know there are some really intelligent and experienced travellers out there willing to help so I am going to completely take advantage of this opportunity and ask a few questions. The things we look forward to on our trip are trying local cuisine, walking and exploring new towns, occasionally doing some museum and church trips (we love history but on our budget, I don't think we can afford to visit Churchs/Museums every day). When we get to Greece, we are really looking forward to the beaches and having to worry about absolutely nothing! We (my boyfriend and I) are backpacking and staying in hostels with an approx. budget of 150 EURO per day (excluding train passes). Maybe one day I will be able to go back to these beautiful countries and travel a little more luxuriously but for now I have no complaints. I've done up a rough itinerary below and also added a few questions as well.

FLY TO VENICE MAY 24

VENICE (3)
BOLOGNA (2)
FLORENCE (3)
CT (2) Do I need two nights here? I heard its really expensive. We would like to hike all of the towns with time to explore them as well.
TUSCANY (4 nights, we would like to rent a car for a day trip as well) *Want to find a central location, any suggestions? I am having a hard time deciding between all the amazing towns! I am really looking forward to relaxing, exploring towns, photographing and we would even like to splurge for some bike rentals.
ROME (4)

2 Extra nights?? Where we spend them will depend on if we fly or ferry..

FERRY/FLY TO GREECE JUNE 14

ATHENS (3)
SANTORINI (4)
MYKONOS (3)
with a Day Trip to Delos
ATHENS (1)
2 Extra nights?? Need to be back in Athens by the 27th for our flight on the 28th.

FLY HOME =( JUNE 28



Qs

1. Easier/more affordable to fly or ferry from Italy to Greece? What are the advantages/disadvantages?
2. Athens or Islands first?
3. Rhodes too far? Chose Delos because heard great things, close to Mykonos.. don’t want to spend a TON of time on ferries but get a nice overall feel of Islands.. any suggestions for different islands? We dont have any expectations other than good beaches and food!
4. Narrowed down cities based on input from message board, guidebooks etc,...any suggestions please let me know.
5. When we are in Italy would it be better to purchase a Train pass before we go or pay as we go?

Thank you to everyone who is able to offer any suggestions/advice!

Were it me I would look for connecting flights from Italy straight to Santorini, saving Athens for last. A ferry from Italy to Greece would mean travelling half the length of Italy to Bari or Brindisi, a long ferry ride from there to Patras in Greece, then another overland journey to Athens, all that taking a couple of days and likely costing more than a flight.

Saving Athens for last is always a good idea. Not only would that insure you are back on the mainland in plenty of time for your flight home, but would gain you more time for sightseeing, not having to check in and out of Athens hotels twice.

Santorini is not known for it's beaches so if that is what you're interested in you should look at other islands, Naxos or Paros, for example, which are easy to get to as they are on the main ferry route from Mykonos. Mykonos does have good beaches.Delos is an archeological site, no facilities, and a very worthwhile day trip. There are many islands closer than Rhodes. Keep in mind that both Rhodes and Santorini are cruise ship stops which adds to the crowds and more touristy atmosphere. I prefer to spend time in Athens first but most on this forum prefer to end their trips to Greece there. You will find Greece much less expensive than Italy.

1. Flying is faster and sometimes even cheaper depending on airline promotional offers. EasyJet and Aegean have good fares if your timing is right.

2. Islands first so you don't have to stress about returning to Athens at the last minute.

3. Rhodes is far, but if you sacrifice Mykonos you can do it as long as you make sure the ferries are running in your favor.

On Santorini your best backpacker options are Youth Hostel Oia, Santorini Camping and Youth Hostel Anna.

In Athens check out Student and Travellers Inn and Athens Backpackers.

We didn't find Cinque Terre to be more expensive than other towns in Italy. In fact, it can be less expensive since you like hiking and exploring, both of which are free. Two nights should be enough as long as you have two full days. We spent 3 days, hiking parts of two days and spending time in the towns as we went along. The third day wasn't really necessary but we enjoyed it nonetheless.

I think your budget is a bit thin for Italy, but you can make it work. Venice and Bologna are far more expensive than le Cinque Terre -- but given the fact that you are going to Greece, I think le Cinque Terre isn't worth any extra expense on your part. I live not far from le Cinque Terre and of course I think it is pretty around here, but the olive trees are from Greece! Go see the originals.

Have you picked out lodgings in Bologna? You are going to have to dig to find ones in your budget. If you find low-priced lodgings, you really need to check up on user reviews, because if you go too low in Bologna, you can get shabby and not-clean. One suggestion I will make is that you check out Albergo Garisenda. It has one of THE BEST locations in Bologna and a low price. Read user reviews on TripAdvisor and Booking.com. You will see some complaints about the landlady, but you might want to overlook them because of the great price and location.

I don't know where you are going to find hostels in the Tuscan countryside. You can find farms that have lodgings and serve meals, and they can be a fantastic bargain. If you look for lodgings around the most famous hill towns, obviously they are going to be pricier than if you remember that sleeping on a farm near a less famous town nearby will be cheaper. You can visit the famous hilltowns for free.

Personally, I would give more time to Rome and Venice, and that doesn't mean you should spend more time in museums than you want to. But I think you will find them quite interesting places to walk around and photograph, especially at night. You shouldn't treat your time in these places as so crammed you can't wait to get to Greece and relax. Rome and Venice can both be very easy going if you don't race through them. Skip le Cinque Terre and have a vacation in the cities instead, sitting around the piazza drinking wine, take a walk that isn't on your map as "must see."

zeppole's advice sounds good... and don't be lured by Cinque Terre, it has been so Hyped by Rick Steves that people report it is a steady line all along the path of people clutching their Rick Steves books. Yes the views of the sea are nice --- but every single Greek Isle I know has better views, and in June ((except for Santorini & Mykonos) none of them are at all crowded, and they are waay cheap compared to Italy. So as Z says, skip CT, save time/money, do your seascape thing in Greece. (BTW Steves not fond of Greece, so no guide). Here's some Greece "eye candy" for places beyond the usual Santorini-Mykonos two-step of most americans.

ALL! ISLANDS - http://www.greek-islands.us/
MILOS - http://www.milos-island.com/Milos-Ph...nd-photos.html
NAXOS - http://travel.webshots.com/slideshow/552001505EYxVYT

Thanks for all the quick responses!

The only guide book for Italy I have is Fodors Essential Italy and theres only a short snippet on CT. I actually heard about it from a friend who did about half of the hike and wished that she had more time to do all of it. It was also something that my boyfriend seemed really interested in. That being said, it's something that I could save for a different trip.

Flying to Santorini sounds like a great idea, I've already looked into flights and the pricing is not that bad!

Tuscany - I guess I should have been much clearer, I realize it's hard to limit ourselves to just hostels for the duration of our trip. My point was to let people know that our plan was to keep our accomodations as cheap as possible. By cheaper Hilltowns can you be more specific as to which ones? What would you suggest? We want to limit ourself to only renting a car for one day if we can. As long as the place where we are staying is accessible to the surrounding towns by transit.

Travelerjan - thank you for the pictures, to be honest I've felt really lost trying to plan my itinerary for Greece and I have probably taken the easy route. There is just too much to choose from! I'm not sure if I could give up Santorini though.

Ok back to the drawing board for some fine tuning!

I still advise you to skip le Cinque Terre, but if you want to come to the Italian Riviera, stay in a town like Bonassola in a place like this:

http://www.agriturismo-caduferra.it/...ys/prezzi.html

It's only 15 minutes by train to le Cinque Terre. You might be able to find other cheap accommodations in towns like Deiva Marina, Moneglia, Sestri Levante, Riva Trigosa, La Spezia (a city, but it has some pretty b&bs in the hills), Framura, Fiascherino, La Serra. If you are good with google, use the map feature to crawl along the coast looking for little "bed" signs.

By cheaper hilltowns in Tuscany I mean Impruneta instead of San Gimignano, lodgings in the Mugello area near Firenze instead of Chianti. a town like San Giovanni d'Asso or Sinalunga instead of Montalcino, Lucignano instead of Greve, Chanciano Terme instead of Montepulciano. Tuscany is a HUGE place, so before you even think about lodgings, you should identify what you want to see in rural Tuscany. A car is going to be quite an expense for you -- and I am not sure you can rent one economically for just one day -- so you might want to dig into the Rick Steves message boards and the Lonely Planet message boards to see what is doable by public transportation. You can do a lot since you have the luxury of time. Since you have backpacks, you might look into the feasability of walking some places -- for instance, you can take a bus from Florence to San Gimingnano, and from there do a walking tour to other towns, and fill in with some buses, until you get back to an area where you can catch a train and go on.

A guide book like the Rough Guide might help you a lot more than the Fodor's book, which is written for affluent travelers. A lot of the places you are targeting have become vacation destinations for affluent people. Both the Lonely Planet message boards and the Rough Guides have detailed advice and tips for extreme budget travelers -- and that is your category. In my view, the budget travelers often experience a lot more of what makes Italy wonderful than the affluent travelers do, because they often go to places that are less tricked up for tourism -- but are just as beautiful. Staying in a town like Padova instead of Venice, Montecantini Alta or Certaldo instead of Florence, Lucignano instead of Montalcino can give you a special window into the unspoiled beauties of Italy.

Have a great time.

PS: In case it wasn't clear, I'm not suggesting you skip Venice or any famous place. I'm suggesting that right nearby, within an easy train or bus ride, is a town with much cheaper places to stay, and it also has fewer tourists and more Italians, and often beautiful art and piazze as well, so you can see both sides of Italy, the famous tourist targets and the places where Italians go about their lives.

Zeppole's perspective on Italy applies to Greek Isles. I don't suggest skipping Santorini --for the first-timer, it's a 'must-see' but its beaches are alas gritty and it IS quite expensive, a 'tourist target' with large cruise ships almost daily, and not characteristic of Greek life (that 'Traveling Pants' movie misleads) ...

So give Santorini 2.5 days,stay on the Caldera side for the view (that Oia Hostel is great if you can book it -- otherwise, look at Villa Fotini for a bargain on the border of Fira Town and Firostephani). Then ferry to Paros or Naxos (both wonderful isles for beaches AND inland hiking/driving/scootering) for 4.5 days. These 2 isles are unusual in that they offer a 'day trip' via special excursion vessels that will allow you to see Delos in the morning & Mykonos in the afternoon, yet be back on your less-crowded island before dinner.

As BRotherleelove sagely advises, your most time-efficient scenario involves flying to Santorini on the day you arrive in Athens airport. Go to Aegean Air website and sign up for "newsletter" (actually its an e-mail alert) and watch for "Specials" -- a discount ticket for your date, sometimes as lo as €50 or so to Santorini. Then u can ferry to Isle #2.

To get back to Athens, there are 2 good sailings (BlueStar) from Paros/Naxos to Piraeus (the Athens port). One chops up the middle of the day; I recommend the evening one I call "the Dinner Ferry." It gives u the whole day on the beach, then you watch the sunset from a ferry deck, have a bite to eat, and snooze in a RESERVED ECONOMY seat inside until arrival arund midnight. Find another couple to share a taxi back to the Plaka district. 2 good cheap hotels (I use them!) with superb locations (and rooftop Acropolis views) are Hotel Metropolis and Hotel Phaedra-- ask for upper floors with balconies.

Then you have 3+ days to enjoy Athens and here's the thing; after being immersed in Greek culture & history for a few days, the great landmarks of ancient Greece (and its STUNNING new Acropolis museum) will resonate with you SO much more, than if you tried to take it in immediately upon arrival. Here are some wonderful views of Central Athens sites & landmarks by Fodorite Stanbr: http://travel.webshots.com/slideshow/570719132pdjjHG

I see no mention this far of Crete, where you'll find some quiet amazing archaeology, and a local cuisine, to rival anything on the other islands?

Might be worth a look, to see if you could fly into one of the airports there from Rome, and then working your way up to Athens by ferry?

Peter