We are flying into Paris - spending three days. We want to visit Burgundy, Lyon, Bourdeaux and Bourgogne in France. We'd like to go to Barcelona for probably three days and the San Sebastian/Logrono area... It is a bit overwhelming knowing where to start a route. Can anyone help with this? How many days would you suggest in each area? What would be the best route? We are thinking we'd like a car wine touring in France and the San Sebastian/Logrono area. However, we are not sure about Barcelona. I'm thinking we wouldn't need a car there. Any advice and suggestions would be welcome. Thanks!

Are you sure that you can see and experience what you want with this plan in this time frame? 3 days is very little for either Paris or Barcelona (and no, you wouldn’t want a car in either city), and 4 weeks will go incredibly fast!

Here's what I recommend: Get some good guidebooks (or spend some time with a few in your local library) and plot your wish list on a calendar. Check opening hours on the internet for anything that isn't open 24/7. Each time you propose to change locations, pencil in your transportation, add some time on either side (for getting to/from your lodging, checking in/out, packing/unpacking, getting lost/oriented, etc.). As you plan, note that many things in Spain are closed on Monday, and often for all or part of Sundays too; and many things in Spain will also be closed daily for a very long mid-day break.

Whether you will want a car depends on where, exactly, you end up going. You would likely pay a small fortune to pick up in France and drop off in Spain, so consider options for a bus or rail link to actually cross the border. You can get a good sense of your public transportation options on rome2rio.com and very detailed driving routes from viamichelin.com

Hope that helps!

We aren't city people but enjoy the countryside. We have a few basic things we want to do in Paris and Barcelona so we are good with that. (keep in mind we were in Rome 3 days and that was enough for us - get us out of town and into the countryside! haha!). I'm sure 4 weeks will go fast. I am not really a guidebook person. I like personal recommendations from those who've been... That's why I go to these sites... We know pretty much where we want to go but just need a time line... We'll have used up 6 days (approx) so have 24 left.... How much in each area is what we're trying to decide... can we do Bordeaux, Lyon, Burgundy and Bourgogne and the San Sebastian/Logrono area and how much those who've been there would recommend in each area for those 24 days? I do know that we don't want to rent a car in France and drop in Spain and vice versa - too expensive. I have researched that.... We were thinking that maybe we could keep the car the whole time from Burgundy, through Spain and back into France to drop it there. The only issue with that is Barcelona. Car rentals in big cities are not usually a good idea but wasn't sure about how to handle Barcelona and keep that car until we get back to France.... Anyway, lots to think about and not something a guidebook will probably not answer... Thanks for your help - much appreciated...

Actually, better guidebooks will help you identify the pairs of cities that would allow you to cross the border by public transportation, identify the car rental agencies that are available in those cities, etc. But it would mean actually doing some of your own research....

Good luck!

So one of you would be drinking and one of you would be driving?

Personal recommendations are only useful if you know the habits and likes/dislikes of the people making them, which you don't. But if you want a personal recommendation from someone who lives in SW France and knows this territory well, I wouldn't plan a trip like yours in the timeframe you have, and I'd certainly do extensive research on the train and other public transportation options so as to minimize the hassle of having a car in Bordeaux, Barcelona, and San Sebastián.

"We want to visit Burgundy, Lyon, Bourdeaux and Bourgogne in France." A guidebook probably would have made it clear that Bourgogne and Burgundy are one and the same. At any rate, IMO when you add in Barcelona and San Sebastian and get out a spreadsheet or calendar, and a map(!), and do some actual real-life planning, you are bound to see that your plans are too ambitious.

Take the TGV from Paris to Dijon - rent a car at station area - drive and return it at last French large city. Take train to Barcelona. wwwoui.sncf for self-ticketing trains involving France. Book early to score nice discounted tickets. www.seat61.com has all the advice needed for that - general train info www.ricksteves.com and BETS-European Rail Experts.

Do San Sebastian from Bordeau and then either fly or train to Barcelona.

SrCirq - I am new to fodors so this thread is truly a mystery to me... (with the exception of PalenQ who actually gave some useful information). Thanks but both my husband and I have done a lot of "real life planning". I believe we have our routes figured out! I have been researching for a while, using different travel groups and plenty of online searching, and talking with numberous friends who have travelled the area extensively as my guides. I have received so much help and useful information in other forums from people who love to travel and share their experiences and from those who live in the country and want to help. It's been great! However, this is my first and LAST shot at this group. Have done lots of searching on modes of travel and we are doing car rentals and trains by the way. I do apologize - I realize that Bourdeaux and Bourgogne are the same area - must have been typing too fast and had an auto fill that I didn't correct - so sorry to dsitress you thinking I didn't know the difference - I meant Dordogne. I honesly have never participated in a group where there are so many RUDE people who are not here to help but only to criticize sarcastically. I have had so much help from at least four other travel groups where people are very happy to answer questions. I respond by answering their questions about places I've visited in return. I do not know why you are responding if you have nothing pleasant or helpful to offer. Read your reply perhaps - what have you said to help? I will be disabling this account as I have had very little positive response or assistance. I did not join to be told to read a guidebook. I joined this to connect with fellow travellers who want to help each other. And just a side note - if I was to be giving personal recommendations to someone wishing to visit my country - Canada, I would want to be welcoming and polite and thus encouraging someone to visit our great country! Just a thought for you... I'm hoping to meet some lovely French and Spanish folk along our travels - we have always met great people in our travels to numerous other countries.

kja - Thank you but I have done that research online. (and just to point out - I have done LOTS of research). I realize you are pretty high on guidebooks but we have travelled extensively, have had many great experiences and without using a book. For me that's kind of a thing of the past when everything is at your fingertips online - but that's just my opinion... I came on this site for helpful personal information and as you can see from the thread, for some reason I've had very little of that... "But it would mean actually doing some of your own research..." is a very condescending and rude comment and I'm not sure why you felt the need to say something like that. I really thought that these types of forums were for helping one another, not to just tell people to buy guidebooks and do your own research. When I've participated in these types of forums before, I'm very happy to answer questions and share anything that I know because I've been there or live there - not the case in this forum apparently. Why bother answering if you have nothing helpful, polite or constructive to say? I am happy to go back to the other groups I belong to and ditch this one! Maybe reread your comments and think about why you are responding... just a suggestion...

You may not have found the responses helpful, but I don't see that they were actually rude. Mine was intended as hint to check the drunk driving laws, which may well be stricter that those you are used to.

This is fodors.com. Since Fodors is in the business of selling guidebooks, it is hardly surprising that long time posters actually use guidebooks. I use different books for different purposes, and I use online sites as well, but I don't think guidebooks are obsolete.

I would be interested to know which sites you find more useful.

I read a lot of reports from people, made after their trips, about things they did not know that cost them a lot of time, money, or inconvenience -- things that they could have known had they picked up any decent guidebook in advance. The problem is that people can't google what they don't know to ask! So yes, I urge people to use guidebooks. And if people mistakenly say they don't think they can find certain answers in guidebooks, then I'll point out that they can. If you don't want to use a guidebook, don't! Totally your call. I took the time to offer a suggestion about how to plan a trip such as yours, despite a question that appeared to have come from a person with no travel experience and no knowledge of what to see (and, as already noted, your list of places made no sense), and I directed you to some valuable on-line resources for route planning, in addition to guidebooks. I acknowledged that there is a downside to trying to plan one's own trips (doing one's own research) without judging one's choice to do that or not. IME, people on this forum are very generous with their help when given questions that can be meaningfully answered. Again, I wish you well.

Fodor's yes the nice respectful responses along with some rather rude - it's natural but the wealth of good info is great.

Fair enough kja... Guidebooks have their place but my point was that I didn't ask the question I asked to be told to read a guidebook. I can easily do that on my own if I want. And honestly jumping to the conclusion that I had no experience or knowledge because "I made no sense and didn't ask a question that could be meaningfully answered..." I'd suggest to you to perhaps just ask instead... I've never been told that I don't make sense or don't ask meaningful questions. And for the record, I've planned all my own trips including Italy, Costa Rica, Brazil, Mexico, Hawaii (four times), U.A.E., Guatemala, Dominican Republic, Cuba, Jamaica, Caymen Islands, Bahamas, Netherlands... I am well aware of the work involved and certainly don't need to be told - " but it would mean actually doing some of your own research" I was simply asking for some meaningful suggestions. I have one person PalenQ offer some suggestions, the rest have been sarcastic and unhelpful.

thursdaysd - Perhaps then instead of "hinting" that we are not intelligent enough to know better than to drink and drive - just provide some information on the laws... How was your comment helpful at all? For the record, I have researched the laws and it would be a little difficult to do the type of trip that we want to do without a car. When we wine tour in Canada and when we've wine toured in Italy - one drives, the other tastes or we hired a tour operator if we both wanted to indulge that day. I use Trip Advisor lots and have never experienced this type of sarcasm ever! In fact I'm in a very useful sharing conversation right now re: Paris. I also belong to four facebook groups who love to share and give suggestions for what they've enjoyed in various different countries. (Honestly, I planned the majority of our trip to Italy using that advice. It was truly the trip of a lifetime! Did eveything go perfectly? No but we learned lots and it was always an adventure. I really wouldn't have changed a thing!) Three of those Facebook groups are Canadian so maybe that's the difference... maybe we're all "inexperienced" and not "real life planners" together... I don't know... However, I do know that the time I've wasted on this forum is time I'll never get back. Just share all the good information that you have... that's what I'm looking for - not for someone to plan my trip but to share thoughts positively... that's all!

If you re-read your original post, you will find nothing to suggest that this might not be your first trip. Nothing to indicate that you were accustomed to planning your own trips. Just someone who seemed to be in a bit of a fog and not even clear on the different areas of France.

I don't do Facebook. I actually place a value on privacy.

Pickle - before leaving try the ignore option in settings. It won’t help you with this trip but perhaps the next one.

It just goes on and on... Now I'm someone in a fog. Really? And if you're interested in FB, I'd be glad to help you with privacy settings information as I too am a very private person.

Thank you xcountry! I will look at that - like I said - new to this site. I appreciate the constructive assistance.

Privacy settings don't keep FB from selling data about you.

Done xcountry! Thanks again - hopefully will have some more positive experiences from here on in... Appreciate the help - I didn' know I could do that!