Dan Goldstein

My wife and I are booked in two four star hotels during our trip to Italy this fall, does anyone know what this is comparable to in the United States. The hotels are the Hotel Oxford in Rome and the Hotel Giorgione in Venice. Are four stars in Europe nice places to stay or should we worry? Has Anyone stayed at these two Hotels? Any info would be appreciated. <BR>Thanks

Janice

Dear Dan, <BR>Since lots of us stay in one and two star hotels on our European trips, I can't possibly imagine with you would worry about in a 4 star hotel. Unless you have impossibly high standards, and tons of money, you probably won't even need a hotel that fancy. Did you have any particular concerns?

Dan Goldstein

Janice, <BR>No, no serious concerns. This will be our first trip abroad, and was just curious. Our travel agent just bumped us up to 4 * with no extra cost and I was wondering was this a big deal or not. <BR>Thanks for the info <BR>Dan

elaine

Dear Dan <BR> <BR>Whose stars is your travel agent counting? <BR>"Stars" in European hotels are tied to gov't standards, as to hotel amenities. <BR>According to my guidebook, the Giorgione in Venice is a pleasant, attractive <BR>hotel, (although for my preference its location is off the beaten track). <BR>My book also says <BR>the hotel is "rated second class by the government" but it maintains higher standards than that. The Danieli and the Gritti Palace are 4 stars--the Giorgione is not. <BR>I do not know Rome, but the hotel Oxford <BR>according to my guidebook is a "decent but not spectacular choice adjacent to the Borghese Gardens". It is also described as centrally located.It also doesn't seem to be a 4star hotel.

Christina

From the stuff I've seen, The Hotel Giorgione is indeed a four star hotel (and part of the SRS hotel chain if you want to look up their WEBsite) but the Oxford definitely is not. We don't have star ratings in the US (wish we did, actually) so it's hard to compare but I think both France and Italy use star systems (not sure of other countries) and France uses 1-4 and Italy 1-5 but that's about the same as a 5star is super deluxe and rare. Generally, a four star hotel will have more services and amenities than a 3star, that's the main thing. They are usually bigger and cater often more to business people or those who need a lot of service--this is just my impressions from things I've read and may not be exactly accurate officially, but a four star hotel may have a concierge, bar, laundry service, in-house restaurant, room service, gift shop, those kind of things inhouse, as well as direct dial phones in every room, elevator to all floors and perhaps A/C in all rooms (at least some AC, no doubt). Three star hotels are fine (they are my choice) but they don't have in-house restaurants, for example, but will probably just have a breakfast room and potentially (but not necessarilY) a room service that gets things from a restaurant next door, for example; prob no concierge, only a desk clerk, stuff like that. In Paris which I know well, I think 3 star hotels must have someone who speaks English rather fluently, must have a lift, and must have bathrooms in most or all of the rooms, plus must have directdial phones in each room; there are also roomsize requirements which is why some hotels with these amenities don't get 3 stars, if their rooms are miniscule, and probably some window requirements also. Anyway, I think your agent isn't being honest, as there is tons of info saying the Hotel Oxford is only a 3star hotel, including their own website (www.hoteloxford.com) which describes it as "superior tourist" -- this means 3 stars (tourist means two stars), believe me no four star hotel would call itself tourist class. There is more info on this (saying it's 3 stars) on www.romeguide.it. The Hotel Giorgione's own website says it's four stars (www.hotelgiorgione.it) and usually hotels will not lie about these ratings as they're official, plus some others like www.guestinitaly.com/hvenice.htm. <BR> <BR>There is another budget TWO star hotel in Venice with a similar name (Hotel Giorgio or something) which may be what someone else confused it with or perhaps it has upgrade itself to four star recently (but, I rather doubt that as a one to two or even 3 star or 2 to 3 star upgrade is common but I've never heard of a hotel upgrading itself to 4 stars as that would be a major investment and marketing decision). <BR> Anyway, not to worry as four stars is the top rating, except Oxford isn't, and from the picture I saw it's not very attractive nor what I'd want to stay in, but certainly not worrisome (just kind of ugly and low budget). If you want something nicer as you seem to sound like you do, I'd get your agent to "re-check" that info on the Oxford. Depending on your tastes, you might prefer a nice three star to a four star, I certainly would, due to the business clientele and atmosphere of four star hotels -- may be fine for business but not what you want on a vacation, and I'm not being cheap, either, it's not a matter of money as you can often get crummy rooms in four star hotels just as cheap or cheaper than a nicer room in a good 3 star hotel, especially due to deals with tour packages, travel agencies and companies. So, don't know where you've been in the US, but I'd guess Milford Plaza for example in NYC would qualify as a four star hotel due to its amenities and services, but many rooms are hardly deluxe (having stayed there).

elaine

Christina <BR>Thanks for educating me on the star differences between Italy and France; I had assumed that Italy's top category was 4 stars as it is in France. You made an interesting comment about the Milford Plaza in NYC; it is one of those hotels that attracts so many tourists, and yet as a New Yorker I always wonder why anyone would choose it when the price and the location can easily be beat. <BR>Dan, just based on my guidebooks's lukewarm <BR>review and on the hotel location, I would at least research other places in Venice before committing to the Giorgione, unless some past patrons here chime in and convince you otherwise. <BR>Ditto the Oxford which seems not to be officially 4 stars. <BR>

Myriam

Dan, <BR>This is just to inform you that in Europe a 4* hotel is usually of high quality. In contradiction to what Christina says, the star rating system does not really depend from capacity, in-house restaurant, room service, conciergery, etc. but only from the quality of these facilities. <BR>There is however a difference between the standards in the various European countries. Southern Europe seems to be more generous with its stars than northern and central Europe (e.g. a 4* hotel in Turkey equals a 3* in Belgium).

Dan

Thanks for all of the responses!! I will have our tour agent look around for other places to compare. It seems I have a lot to learn before Oct. <BR>Thanks Dan

Caitlin

I haven't been to Italy, so I can't comment directly on that, but I think it's important to look for reviews, descriptions, etc. of hotels, and not just go by the govt. star ratings. In France it seems there's much overlap between some 2 and 3 star hotels, with some 3 star have rates less than some 2 star, etc. and some 2 star just nicer than some 3 star. I've heard that in France some hotels take a lower star rating for tax purposes. Again, I don't know about Italy, but the point is that the star ratings are only a place to start, and you really want to check on locations and others' impressions if you can.

bo_jack

We've not been to Italy, but our experience in a number of countries (France, Spain, England, Turkey, Hungary, Germany, etc) is that 4-star is in the ball park of a mid-scale Hilton in the US. Not as good as the best Hiltons, but noticably better than the worst Hiltons. So, 4-star is, in fact, quite good. If you are disappointed, your are not in a "true" 4-star property; or something is amiss. Since we do not use Travel Agents, I tend to be suspicious of both their competence and their motives. What did you do to merit being "bumped up"? and what, exactly, does that mean? I would ask that question.

Art

Hi, Every time I visit a 3 or 4 star hotel in Europe, all I see is Americans. Don't get me wrong, I love the US but I don't travel to see people that I can see here. I like to experiance the country that I'm in, for example when I was in Hungary last fall, I stayed with a family in there flat, very inexpensive and wonderful breakfasta and conversation. In any case have a great trip. <BR>Art <BR>

bo_jack

Dan – <BR>Having re-read the previous posts, including my own, and noting that this is your first trip abroad, I think this thread has developed in a way that is potentially misleading. My wife and I are in our mid-fifties, economically and culturally upper middle-class Americans, relatively prosperous, but both coming from economic lower middle-class backgrounds. We are not unreasonably demanding, but we do recognize and appreciated having nice accommodations. For the past several years we have vacationed in Europe twice a year, two weeks at a time. Our typical “target” price range for over-night accommodations is $80 - $ 120; and we usually can stay within that range. We often arrange accommodations after we arrive in a town. (We do tend not to stay in the center of major cities – the same way that we travel in the US.) In our experience, we have never been shown accommodations that failed to include a private (en suite) bath; and we have only a few times stayed in rooms that did not include phones, televisions and elevator access (if needed). The major difference from the US is that rooms and TVs tend to be smaller, air conditioning is typically not available, queen/king sized beds are often non-existent, and the bathroom plumbing may be wonderfully different from the standard American potty; so, we live with the first of these, adjust to the second of these, usually ask for twin beds which we push together, and enjoy the experience of figuring out how the plumbing fixtures work. Some comments seem to express an almost snobbish attitude that “if you stay in mid-upper scale places, then all you see is Americans”; in the first place, that is not so bad, but in the second place, it is not true. What you see is other travelers who tend to stay in mid-upper scale places, and (whether Asian, African, European or American) their current life styles and expectations tend to converge with your own. <BR>

Dona

Dan, <BR> <BR>I don't know the Oxford but I have passed the Giorgione in Venice - and stopped in to see it and get a brochure because I liked the way it looked. It looks very nice and I would recommend it. The only thing - and this could be a deal breaker - is the location. It's in a neighborhood of Venice as opposed to closer to the "action" of San marco. For people who have been to Venice and are looking for a more remote perspective, I would certainly recommend the Giorgione. Otherwise, you may want to consider something else. <BR> <BR>If I can be of assistance, please e-mail me. <BR> <BR>Dona