Hey would love some constructive criticism on my 4 month Europe Itinerary!

My partner and I are 21-23 years old and like fairly active holidays with an interest in mostly natural scenery and historical sites, although we also enjoy vibrant cities at night and going out to bars etc and meeting new people. Don't mind staying in cheap hotel/hostel.
(also we don't mind it being a hot time of the year as we prefer hot weather and like to think we are quite used to it) and we do like water and swimming!

-We will be traveling from the 18th of June to the 22nd of September. =97 days. 85 days in schengen. I understand that it is super busy this time of year.. it is the most convenient time we could get off work and are wanting to escape the winter in Australia



Heres the Itinerary:
Fly: Istanbul--> thessaloniki (4 hrs. stay 1 night)

Train: thessaloniki --> kalambaka (3 hrs. 1 night)

Train: Kalambaka --> Athens (4 hrs. stay 2 nights)

Ferry: Athens --> mykonos (3 hrs. stay 3 nights)

Ferry: Mykonos --> Ios (2 hrs. stay 2 nights.)

Ferry: Ios --> Santorini ( 1 hr. stay 2 nights. )

fly: Santorini --> Athens --> Dubrovnik (6 hrs. stay 2 nights)

Sailing tour: Dubrovnik --> Split (7 night sailing tour and then stay in split for 4 nights afterwards)

Ferry: split --> Ancona. (10 hrs. Stay 1 night)

Train: Ancona --> Venice (3 hrs. Stay 4 nights)

Train: Venice --> Rome (4 hrs. Stay 3 nights)

Train: Rome --> Positano (4 hrs. stay 4 nights)

Train: Positano --> Florence (5 hrs. stay 4 nights)

Train: Florence --> Vernazza (3 hrs. Stay 2 nights)

Train: Vernazza--> Genoa (2 hrs. Stay 1 night. )

Train: Genoa --> Como (3 hrs. stay 1 night)

Train: Como --> Lucerne (4 hrs. Stay 1 night.)

Hiking tour: Hiking bernese oberland (4 night hiking tour and then 1 night over in lucerne afterwards)

Train: Lucerne --> Nice (10 hrs. stay 4 nights)

Train: Nice --> Barcelona (8 hrs. stay 4 nights)

Fly: Barcelona --> Ibiza (3 hrs. stay 3 nights)

Fly: Ibiza --> Valencia (2 hrs. stay 3 nights)

Fly: Valencia --> Paris (5 hrs. Stay 4 nights)

Train: Paris --> Amsterdam (3 hrs. Stay 4 nights.)

Train: Amsterdam --> Berlin (7 hrs. stay 3 nights)

Train: berlin --> Krakow (10 hrs. stay 3 nights.)

Train: Krakow --> Budapest (11 hrs. stay 3 nights)

Train: Budapest --> Vienna (2 hrs. stay 4 nights)

Train: Vienna --> Hallstatt (4 hrs. stay 1 night)

Train: Hallstatt --> Salzburg (2 hrs. stay 3 nights)

Train: Salzburg --> Innsbruck (2 hrs. stay 2 nights)

Train: Innsbruck --> Munich (2 hrs. Stay 5 nights)


-Max 7 days of travelling. approx. 135 hrs of travelling.
-we have got approx. AUD$28,000 saved up each just incase. AUD$5,000 for transport, AUD$12,000 for spending money, AUD$4500 for tours and AUD$6,000 for accommodation.

What do you guys think....? honestly need peoples advice.

Cheers!

Your plan is insane.

Have you looked at time tables and journey times?

Having one night in a city might mean that you arrive at 16:00 and have to leave for the next destination at 08:00, essentially giving you no time to see or do anything.

I understand the desire to see as much as possible but jeez, this is pretty much a recipe for disaster.

Does your "travel time" include travel time to/from the transport? That can add hours.

You really need to reexamine your itinerary.

Fist a question. Have you heard about the Schengen area? Do you understand it's limitations?
I only make it that this trip is only 10 or 11 nights outside of the zone.
https://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntr...his-post-first
http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/sche...ountries-list/

After this, you will need a good, long vacation to recover from this trip.

Seriously, you underestimate travelling times. Even if you travel by train, you need time to check out of your hotel/hostel, to go to the train station, to wait on the platform etc. You also did not take into account that trains (and other means of transport) are often delayed or cancelled. Not to speak of mistakes like boarding the wrong train etc.

Also, you underestimate how strenuous your travelling style is, even at your age. A ten-hour train ride is a torture for everyone. Period.

My honest advice: Cancel half of the destinations in your itinerary and take more time for the remaining places to grab at least a little feeling of Europe.

You have many places in your itinerary which I would rank as B-destinations, so you can easily skip them.

Take more time for Greece Mainland, especially Meteora, Delphi and the Peloponnese (which has fantastic beaches, BTW, also excellent beaches near Athens). Instead, skip at least one of the islands, perhaps Ios.

On the other hand, four nights in Split is more than enough, even if you use one day for a trip to Plitvice.

What I would skip:

- Vernazza, a tourist trip and not enough time for it in your itinerary.
- Genoa (secondary city), instead you need more time for Como and Luzern (or skip them).
- Ibiza: not much to see and to do there, you find much better beaches near Barcelona.
- Valencia: secondary city, sacrifice it in order to have more time for the beautiful Costa Brava north of Barcelona
- Think twice about Krakow, maybe also Budapest. They ARE beautiful and certainly A-destinations, but are outliers. At least fly and do not take the train.
- Hallstatt: secondary city.
- Innsbruck: secondary city. Instead spend some time near Salzburg in Berchtesgaden. It is more beautiful and you are already on your way to München.

I just read another good advice in another thread:

Plan breaks from your very demanding itinerary in between. Allow yourselves to relax and unwind for two or three days at some beautiful destinations, maybe at a beach, to recover, write your travel diary, sort photos, do some laundry etc. Otherwise you will get tired of travelling.

At your age there should be plenty of travel years in front of you - why try to do it all in one trip?
My advice would be to choose a few places that are important to you, and really spend some time getting to know them in detail.
Your present itinerary will leave you with just a blurred impression of European life. It is so different from our part of the world! Di

wow, first of all traveler1959 puts it well, plan some down time

Then a few other writers ask about traveling to spend a night somewhere, why? Now I do bike trips where we visit a city for the night and then move on, but the purpose of my trip is the journey, is that what you want?

Ibiza in October..... I suspect all the foam has gone home

Great start to a plan, now cull it.

Hi sparkchaser,
Yes, i did look at timetables and journey times. The only places we are staying at for 1 nighters are just stop overs so we can have a break from transportation. (E.g thessaloniki to get to kalamabaka, genoa and coma to get from italy to switzerland and ancona to get from split to venice.)

I will definitely have to add mor hours onto travel times and maybe take out 3-4 towns. Thanks for your tips.

Hi ribeirasacra,

Yes i do understand schengen. Our plan has 85 days in schengen so i think we are right?

Hi traveller1959, thanks so much forthe tips. Really helpful. I would love to spend more time in mainland greece...might take of ios and spend more time mainland..and might consider taking out ibiza, valencia, berlin, hallstatt and innsbruck or salzburg..

Also i thought 7 days in greece islands, 12 days in croatia and 5 days in positano seemed pretty relaxing and chilled out.

Hi di2315

Because i have been working my ass off for 5 yrs and unlike most people i did not take a 'gap year' after high school. When i come back i also want to get my own house,start a family and also focus on my career...which i feel will defintely take up most of my time and money and i worry that it just wont happen then..

I don't understand all the trains - why don't you fly?

For example fly Istanbul to Athens? That would free up 2 days of travel. Or Nice to Barcelona? Or Amsterdam to Berlin? These are very long train rides and with flights being so cheap in Europe it makes much more sense to fly.

Your trip is fast paced but I did a similar thing when I was your age (although we didn't cover as much ground as you are). Can I make some suggestions without changing it radically?

Where does Istanbul fit into your plans? If not staying there, then I'd fly into Athens.

I'd consider 2 nights to see Meteora. Don't stop in Thessaloniki unless you want to see the place. One night stops are tiring and not very rewarding unless there is something you specifically want to do/see.

I'd choose two of Mykonos, Ios and Santorini (drop one) for a more relaxing time.

Check flights between Greece and Croatia as services are not frequent and are seasonal (unless they've changed, which they might have).

If it is a night ferry to Ancona, press on to Rome on arrival unless you have a desire to see Ancona. Head south rather than north then south and then north again.

As you are going to the Amalfi Coast, I'd skip Cinque Terre. Travel from Venice to Como then on to Lucerne. One night in Como is pretty much a waste of time so either stay longer or press on from Venice to either Lucerne or Bernese Oberland.

Two one night stops in Lucerne is a pain. I'd avoid that if you can. Switzerland is small and transport is excellent so no real need to do this I think.

From Switzerland you seem to be going west, east, west, etc. I'd try to head more in one direction. Maybe head east from Switzerland, then train Berlin to Amsterdam, onto Paris and fly to Ibiza, ending in Barcelona, from where you could fly home (or something like that). Does that help? Not sure. I'd skip Nice unless you have a strong desire to visit. If it helps, as far as I know there are trains from Split to Budapest via Zagreb.

As for budget, your transport costs will be high. Even though I'm Australian, I need to think in euro to budget. That will also assist if the AUD rises or falls significantly between now and then. But generally your budget sounds fine to me, roughly speaking.

In regard to wanting to see it all because it may be a long time before you return, there is more than one way to 'experience it all'. One is to see as many places as you possibly can. The other is to enjoy fewer places better. Both have their place (no pun intended) but don't feel that more destinations is necessarily better. You want a trip to remember so make sure it's not a blur. Take time to linger.

Have fun!

Make sure you understand the visa/non-visa rules of the Schengen area: You are allowed to make entry without a visa (for a US citizen in this case, yes?), then stay in the Schengen area for up to 90 days. Then you must leave the Schengen area and you are not permitted re-entry for another 90 days.

So don't think you can just hop across the channel to London for example to "reset the clock" and hop right back to the continent - it's 90 days in, 90 days out.

You have listed the train times -- which barely covers it. That three hour train ride to Venice will actually eat up about 6 hours by the time you check out, get to the station, the train ride, getting to your hotel in Venice, and checking in.

So all your 3 or fewer hour train trips will eat up half a day and the longer journeys will basically eat up a full day.

I personally think -- go where you want because after about the first four weeks or so you won't have much idea where you are or what you are seeing. It will all become a blur.

Too bad there aren't laundry facilities on trains...

For this sort of trip and at that time of year, you'll need to pack light and do laundry frequently. Seriously, think about where/when/how you're going to deal with this.

I know you think you may never get back, or not for a long time anyway. We did not take our first overseas trip until 2004 when we were in our fifties. We are in France at the moment for ten weeks (that will make 46 weeks in France), and this is our seventh trip to France, UK and Italy since 2004. Racing around like you are planning will leave you exhausted and flat out remembering where you have been. Slow down. All these places will be there in years to come. You need some down time to just enjoy the places you are visiting. Also, the more you move, the more it costs , both in time and money.
I can understand your motives. We are also Australian and I know it costs a lot in time and money to get to Europe so you want to do as much as you can. But I can tell you that some of our most memorable moments are the little things -the small moments that we still smile about when we remember.
Today we used a rock as a picnic table for lunch surrounded by the awe inspiring Cirque de Troumouse in the Pyrenees. It does not get much better.
Take your time to make some treasured moments.

" The only places we are staying at for 1 nighters are just stop overs so we can have a break from transportation. (E.g thessaloniki to get to kalamabaka, genoa and coma to get from italy to switzerland and ancona to get from split to venice.)"

That doesn't make much sense:

The direct plane from Istanbul arrives at Thessaloniki at 8.45am. As Sarah is not inerestaed in Thessaloniki, she would have plenty of time to proceed up to Meteora.

The train ride from Vernazza to Lucerne takes about 7 1/4 hrs (30 min less form Monterosso, but Sarah doesn't want to stay at Monterosso), for example Vernazza dp 14.29 - Lucerne ar 21.41. There is no need to waste 3 days for that.

The overnight ferry from Split arrives at Ancona early in the morning. The connecting train leaves Ancona at 9.22 and arrives at Venice at 13.35. No need to sleep at Ancona.