2007 Tour de France Chat
Jul 23rd, 2007, 06:51 AM
#82
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Jack - right on - the Danish cycling federation i'm sure wanted not to have to suspend him but they had good grounds - nevertheless many will give Ras a Lance-like pass.
This to me has reinstated the doping issue that this year's Tour was susposed to dispel.
"Something's rotten in Denmark and i'm getting a good whiff of it over here" to quote Mister Ed.
This to me has reinstated the doping issue that this year's Tour was susposed to dispel.
"Something's rotten in Denmark and i'm getting a good whiff of it over here" to quote Mister Ed.
Jul 23rd, 2007, 09:18 AM
#83
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I firmly believe that every cyclist who has ever raced in the Tour de France throughout its history has been doped to the maximum he or his body can get away with. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the race or admiration and amazement at what they can do in the slightest.
Look at Rasmussen: he's at the top of the most demanding sport in the world, and he looks like a skeleton. Your average baseball or football player would have a stroke or a massive coronary before the first half-hour was out at that pace.
That's what makes it interesting: this isn't a test of strength; it's a test of efficiency, in maximizing the potential of the human body to move oxygen through the bloodstream. The riders are all right at the edge of what is humanly possible, in a way that's unusual for any sport. That's why you see them haul the breakaways back in, over and over; everybody knows exactly what's possible and what's not.
It is inevitable that doping agents will be used to squeeze out another tenth of a percentage. But you and I could suck down gallons of the best dope in the world and not ride the Tour, let alone win it. These are still amazing athletes.
Floyd Landis's show last year was an absolute miracle, the day he came back from a shattering loss the day before to blow away the course; it was the best sports performance I have ever seen. Testosterone? Who cares?
If you want to make the sport "perfectly clean", don't just take away their dope; take away their science, their wind tunnels and fifteen-minute-interval blood testing and heart metering. Take away their composite bikes.
Go back to the original Tour, where if a rider broke his (iron) bike he had to fix it himself with no help from anyone. A rider was disqualified in an early Tour because, after he broke his front fork, he forged a new one at the next village, and used a local boy to work the bellows on the fire. Outside labor!
Look at Rasmussen: he's at the top of the most demanding sport in the world, and he looks like a skeleton. Your average baseball or football player would have a stroke or a massive coronary before the first half-hour was out at that pace.
That's what makes it interesting: this isn't a test of strength; it's a test of efficiency, in maximizing the potential of the human body to move oxygen through the bloodstream. The riders are all right at the edge of what is humanly possible, in a way that's unusual for any sport. That's why you see them haul the breakaways back in, over and over; everybody knows exactly what's possible and what's not.
It is inevitable that doping agents will be used to squeeze out another tenth of a percentage. But you and I could suck down gallons of the best dope in the world and not ride the Tour, let alone win it. These are still amazing athletes.
Floyd Landis's show last year was an absolute miracle, the day he came back from a shattering loss the day before to blow away the course; it was the best sports performance I have ever seen. Testosterone? Who cares?
If you want to make the sport "perfectly clean", don't just take away their dope; take away their science, their wind tunnels and fifteen-minute-interval blood testing and heart metering. Take away their composite bikes.
Go back to the original Tour, where if a rider broke his (iron) bike he had to fix it himself with no help from anyone. A rider was disqualified in an early Tour because, after he broke his front fork, he forged a new one at the next village, and used a local boy to work the bellows on the fire. Outside labor!
Jul 23rd, 2007, 09:55 AM
#85
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fnarf, I say, "amen", to your comments except "It is inevitable that doping agents will be used" I want to believe that all those biking technologies can be combined without the use of banned drugs to succeed.
What a race this had been so far and I don't think the spectacle of the Tour race has dimmed at all for the fans who camp out days before and after a mountain climb just to cheer on their favorite.
Each day of the race keeps getting more exciting. Deborah
What a race this had been so far and I don't think the spectacle of the Tour race has dimmed at all for the fans who camp out days before and after a mountain climb just to cheer on their favorite.
Each day of the race keeps getting more exciting. Deborah
Jul 23rd, 2007, 10:08 AM
#86
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The current generation of doping agents is undetectable by any test, and the new ones coming down the pike even more so, even to the point of being impossible.
Is advanced nutrition cheating? Food supplements? Take away their water bottles!
Is advanced nutrition cheating? Food supplements? Take away their water bottles!
Jul 23rd, 2007, 10:12 AM
#87
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In WWE Wrestling and pro wrestling in general where they all about take steroids and checking is non-existant i think there have been an unusual number of premature deaths - including Chris Benoit, who shot his family and self and some attribute this to steroids. Not sure bout that but if bike riders were dying at a much bigger rate young then it would be a health problem.
but apparently this is not the case as doping has been going on for years. Legalize it to make it a truly level field for all racers so that you don't have the current situation where the only dopes are the ones not taking doping stuff.
but apparently this is not the case as doping has been going on for years. Legalize it to make it a truly level field for all racers so that you don't have the current situation where the only dopes are the ones not taking doping stuff.
Jul 23rd, 2007, 10:36 AM
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A lot of cyclists DID die, from EPO, just a few years ago. Marco Pantani, who won the 1998 Tour, but was found with EPO in his blood, died, as did seven or eight other riders. And in the late 80s, more than a dozen riders died very young of "unknown" causes almost certainly related to drugs.
Note that EPO cannot be detected in the blood; only markers, which are not perfectly reliable. Newer drugs are much harder to spot. Note also that many of them are naturally-occurring substances in the body; in fact one way to get disqualified is to have too high a concentration of red blood cells -- a limit that every tour rider skirts absolutely close to the edge of, and tests for daily, sometimes several times a day in training sessions.
Note that EPO cannot be detected in the blood; only markers, which are not perfectly reliable. Newer drugs are much harder to spot. Note also that many of them are naturally-occurring substances in the body; in fact one way to get disqualified is to have too high a concentration of red blood cells -- a limit that every tour rider skirts absolutely close to the edge of, and tests for daily, sometimes several times a day in training sessions.
Jul 23rd, 2007, 11:02 AM
#89
I believe in Vinokourov. Maybe I shouldn't, but he has shown himself to have terrible days and good days and quite a bit of stamina. And riding although injured is always a major feat.
The French champion Christophe Moreau also appears to be a clean rider, as evidenced by the fact that he keeps slipping farther and farther back in the ratings.
The French champion Christophe Moreau also appears to be a clean rider, as evidenced by the fact that he keeps slipping farther and farther back in the ratings.
Jul 23rd, 2007, 11:06 AM
#90
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<I've been avoiding this thread because I was sure the main and only topic would be drugs. I finally decided to take a chance and have a look. Glad I did as amazingly enough, most of the conversation is about the quality of the racing and the sights along the route>
yes let's return to the positive parts of the tour - though the drug issue pops up just because the current leader is so obviously a doper, at least in the past. Can't help but further taint the Tour.
yes let's return to the positive parts of the tour - though the drug issue pops up just because the current leader is so obviously a doper, at least in the past. Can't help but further taint the Tour.
Jul 23rd, 2007, 11:11 AM
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I think Vinikourov is the heartbeat of this years Tour. I have to admit I was in tears today watching him race. I watch the struggles each day of so many of the cyclists and how can you not be moved by their determination.
I also am enjoying the cat and mouse games between Rassmussen and Contador. Gotta love this race
Deborah
I also am enjoying the cat and mouse games between Rassmussen and Contador. Gotta love this race
Deborah
Jul 23rd, 2007, 11:16 AM
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I'm for Contador now. Rasmussen is a little too, uh, bloodless for me. Vinakourov is too far back. 28 minutes, 23rd place. My favorite rider is Iban Mayo, who has sadly fallen out of contention, right in his home Pyrennees. I would also love to see Cadel Evans win -- something about riders with short names, I guess!
Jul 23rd, 2007, 02:26 PM
#93
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Alexandre Vinokourov was pretty impressive today. Foix to Loudenvielle le louron is pretty! Rasmussen and Contador race for the lead is interesting to see. May be 2007 will be a repeat of 1987 (when Stephen Roche led Spaniard Pedro Delgado by less than a minute) 
Or it could all change after the rest day tomorrow!
Or it could all change after the rest day tomorrow!
Jul 23rd, 2007, 05:24 PM
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Deborah - Me too. I was in tears by the time Vinokourov came to the finish line. What a triumphal ride for this man.
Now we know that you have to be in place a day before the Tour passes by in certain areas as they closed the road last night for today's stage. You mentioned earlier how long it would take to come away from the race.
Starting tomorrow, Tuesday until Friday, the German TV ARD will present daily a 25-minute magazine format of the Tour. There have been accusations of undue censureship when ARD & ZDF decided to stop broadcasts.
There's no other comparable event than the Tour de France, where for almost a month's time, the participants are almost daily forced to push their bodies to the extremes of indurance. In addition of dealing with painful and cumulative injuries from falls, they're transported to and from start & finish some distance as there are no acceptable hotels available in the Pyrenees to accommodate larger groups. For instance, stage 14: 70 km to the start at Mazamet and after the race 130 km from the Plateau de Beille to the outskirts of Toulouse on congested roads adding considerably to travel time. The organizers' comments that the racers are riding in comfortable buses of their teams seems rather arrogant. There have been moves underway to shorten the Tour, which translates into lesser profits and is not under discussion as far as UCI (Union Cycliste Int.) and ASO (Tour de France) are concerned.
Stage 16: Orthez to Gourette/Col d'Aubisque with almost 100km of climbing and 218.5 km sounds stressful in the extreme. I'll breathe a sigh of relief once we're in the Dordogne....I hope
Now we know that you have to be in place a day before the Tour passes by in certain areas as they closed the road last night for today's stage. You mentioned earlier how long it would take to come away from the race.
Starting tomorrow, Tuesday until Friday, the German TV ARD will present daily a 25-minute magazine format of the Tour. There have been accusations of undue censureship when ARD & ZDF decided to stop broadcasts.
There's no other comparable event than the Tour de France, where for almost a month's time, the participants are almost daily forced to push their bodies to the extremes of indurance. In addition of dealing with painful and cumulative injuries from falls, they're transported to and from start & finish some distance as there are no acceptable hotels available in the Pyrenees to accommodate larger groups. For instance, stage 14: 70 km to the start at Mazamet and after the race 130 km from the Plateau de Beille to the outskirts of Toulouse on congested roads adding considerably to travel time. The organizers' comments that the racers are riding in comfortable buses of their teams seems rather arrogant. There have been moves underway to shorten the Tour, which translates into lesser profits and is not under discussion as far as UCI (Union Cycliste Int.) and ASO (Tour de France) are concerned.
Stage 16: Orthez to Gourette/Col d'Aubisque with almost 100km of climbing and 218.5 km sounds stressful in the extreme. I'll breathe a sigh of relief once we're in the Dordogne....I hope
Jul 23rd, 2007, 06:16 PM
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Why should Rasmussem be considered a doper? All he's been accused of is failing to notify his federation of his whereabouts for a few days in Mexico, where his wife comes from. What has happened to innocent until proven guilty these days (at least in the U.S. legal system)?
