20 days Madrid, Rioja, Basque country
Apr 6th, 2010, 12:46 PM
#61
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just back from 5 days in Villaviciosa...www.laespadana.com, probably the best rural hotel I´ve ever stayed in. Just 28 kms west of Ribadesella.
Apr 6th, 2010, 02:36 PM
#62
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You have chosen a great bunch of places to visit, but it looks to me like the Avila-Salamanca-Leon segment is a bit unrealistic. Even if you start very early in the morning from Segovia and visit Avila on the way to Salamanca, you won't be getting to Salamanca till late afternoon, I would imagine. And you're leaving the next morning to drive to Leon. Again, even if you leave first thing the next day from Salamanca, it's a three hour drive to Leon, so your time there is pretty limited as well.
And then, the next day, you'll have to leave Leon early in order to visit Oviedo (about 1 1/2 hours by car) on the way to Ribadesella (another hour beyond Oviedo). Those distances aren't bad, but I think you have to add time for getting in and out of cities, finding a central parking lot, etc. Oviedo is a beautiful city, the ancient churches on Mount Naranco are themselves worth a couple of hours, the cathedral and its treasures, the old town, it's just a great place to visit.
If it were me, I'd consider dropping Segovia and adding those nights to the Avila-Salamanca-Leon-Oviedo portion. Or dropping Salamanca and Avila. I like all the places you've got on the list, but you're covering an incredible amount of territory, and getting in and out of all those cities in such short order strikes me as maybe a little stressful.
To each her own, of course. Buen viaje.
And then, the next day, you'll have to leave Leon early in order to visit Oviedo (about 1 1/2 hours by car) on the way to Ribadesella (another hour beyond Oviedo). Those distances aren't bad, but I think you have to add time for getting in and out of cities, finding a central parking lot, etc. Oviedo is a beautiful city, the ancient churches on Mount Naranco are themselves worth a couple of hours, the cathedral and its treasures, the old town, it's just a great place to visit.
If it were me, I'd consider dropping Segovia and adding those nights to the Avila-Salamanca-Leon-Oviedo portion. Or dropping Salamanca and Avila. I like all the places you've got on the list, but you're covering an incredible amount of territory, and getting in and out of all those cities in such short order strikes me as maybe a little stressful.
To each her own, of course. Buen viaje.
Apr 7th, 2010, 07:27 PM
#63
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Are you planning to book a bunch of wine tours? If not and even if, you cold shave a day or two off Haro. It literally is the size of a thumbnail and you really need to have activities planned to spend so much time there. Just my opinion.
Apr 8th, 2010, 04:39 AM
#64
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I have to agree with lreynold1commnets Here is what i had to say back in FEB.
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...omment-6248512
Some parts of your plans are getting stretched too much.
I will second lreynold1's signing off comments too.
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...omment-6248512
Some parts of your plans are getting stretched too much.
I will second lreynold1's signing off comments too.
Apr 8th, 2010, 07:40 AM
#65
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Thanks everyone. This is SO hard. We're experienced travelers and have never had such a hard time planning our itinerary. In previous trips we usually stick to a few central locations and stay there for more days and use them as a base. With this area, it seems difficult to do that as key locations are spread out. We've probably added more than we should have, but now deciding what to eliminate is hard. We are hearty drivers and sightseers so we do accomplish a lot (and sometimes need a vacation when we get home...)
I really didn't want to give up Segovia. It sounds wonderful. So, a couple of different ideas include seeing Avila enroute to Segovia from Toledo and that still gives us a second day in Segovia (if we stay with our 2 night plan). Then we could leave Segovia and go directly to Salamanca which would give us more time there with an overnight. Or, another possibility is to go directly to Salamanca from Toledo, stopping briefly in Avila and spending 2 nights there. We could then spend one night in Segovia on our way back from La Rioja before ending up in Madrid. Any thought on these as alternatives?
I think our time in Leon, coming from Salamanca, is going to have to be considered an enroute stop. We'll see what we can and let it be. It wasn't a high priority destination but seems necessary because of the distance between Salamanca and the coast. I think the stop in Oviedo should be OK as we will have the 3 nights in Ribadesella. I'm pretty sure we'll plan on staying at Villa Rosario that Julie recommends, although Mike's place may be a good second choice if we can't get reservations. We really can't book anything yet until we get our dates finalized!
For the Basque region, I think it makes sense to spend the first 2 nights in Bilbao. We have a long drive the 1st day from Ribadesella with lots to see on the coast enroute. If we're in town the 2nd day we can easily walk to the Guggenheim and other things in town. Also, it is less expensive than San Sebastian. I am really uncertain as to where to stay in SS. It was suggested on this thread to stay at the Hostal Alemana but it has no AC which can be an issue in July and is on a noisy street, so that is out. Ditto for Niza who won't guarantee a sea view and the back of the hotel is also on a busy and noisy street. We're considering the Maria Christina because of its excellent location, but is quite pricey, especially if we add a 3rd night. The Londre is even more pricey so not considering that. So, anyone else with a suggestion of a nice place that is well situated for easy walking around to all the sights and old town?
Regarding La Rioja, we are winos (in the good sense of that word) so we will plan some tasting/tours. We have already planned with Muga for a visit. We don't need to do more than 3 or 4 like that, plus we want to see the excellent museum and the beautiful countryside and interesting architecture of other bodegas. In Maribel's guide for the Rioja she recommends a minimum of 3 nights and suggests 5 would be better. I guess that is why we thought 4 was a good number. So, with all I have said, will 3 days work if we shave off one day?
As for Madrid, if we drop one day that leaves us traveling to get to Madrid on a Saturday, having Sunday and Monday as full days, and departing on Tuesday at 5:00 pm which would give us that morning. One problem is that both the Prado and Thyssen-Bornemisza museums are closed on Monday. I had hoped to see those as well as the Reina Sofia Museum which is closed on Tuesdays. The other big attraction is the Royal Palace. With the closings and 2 1/2 days in town, is that realistic?
I so appreciate everyone's input, including the criticism. We're weighing so many options but I'm sure we'll get this worked out soon!!
Linda
I really didn't want to give up Segovia. It sounds wonderful. So, a couple of different ideas include seeing Avila enroute to Segovia from Toledo and that still gives us a second day in Segovia (if we stay with our 2 night plan). Then we could leave Segovia and go directly to Salamanca which would give us more time there with an overnight. Or, another possibility is to go directly to Salamanca from Toledo, stopping briefly in Avila and spending 2 nights there. We could then spend one night in Segovia on our way back from La Rioja before ending up in Madrid. Any thought on these as alternatives?
I think our time in Leon, coming from Salamanca, is going to have to be considered an enroute stop. We'll see what we can and let it be. It wasn't a high priority destination but seems necessary because of the distance between Salamanca and the coast. I think the stop in Oviedo should be OK as we will have the 3 nights in Ribadesella. I'm pretty sure we'll plan on staying at Villa Rosario that Julie recommends, although Mike's place may be a good second choice if we can't get reservations. We really can't book anything yet until we get our dates finalized!
For the Basque region, I think it makes sense to spend the first 2 nights in Bilbao. We have a long drive the 1st day from Ribadesella with lots to see on the coast enroute. If we're in town the 2nd day we can easily walk to the Guggenheim and other things in town. Also, it is less expensive than San Sebastian. I am really uncertain as to where to stay in SS. It was suggested on this thread to stay at the Hostal Alemana but it has no AC which can be an issue in July and is on a noisy street, so that is out. Ditto for Niza who won't guarantee a sea view and the back of the hotel is also on a busy and noisy street. We're considering the Maria Christina because of its excellent location, but is quite pricey, especially if we add a 3rd night. The Londre is even more pricey so not considering that. So, anyone else with a suggestion of a nice place that is well situated for easy walking around to all the sights and old town?
Regarding La Rioja, we are winos (in the good sense of that word) so we will plan some tasting/tours. We have already planned with Muga for a visit. We don't need to do more than 3 or 4 like that, plus we want to see the excellent museum and the beautiful countryside and interesting architecture of other bodegas. In Maribel's guide for the Rioja she recommends a minimum of 3 nights and suggests 5 would be better. I guess that is why we thought 4 was a good number. So, with all I have said, will 3 days work if we shave off one day?
As for Madrid, if we drop one day that leaves us traveling to get to Madrid on a Saturday, having Sunday and Monday as full days, and departing on Tuesday at 5:00 pm which would give us that morning. One problem is that both the Prado and Thyssen-Bornemisza museums are closed on Monday. I had hoped to see those as well as the Reina Sofia Museum which is closed on Tuesdays. The other big attraction is the Royal Palace. With the closings and 2 1/2 days in town, is that realistic?
I so appreciate everyone's input, including the criticism. We're weighing so many options but I'm sure we'll get this worked out soon!!
Linda
Apr 8th, 2010, 07:54 AM
#66
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On the Basque region part of your trip: Bilbao is a very good base, well linked and at a maximum of two hours drive of the rest of places you want to see. Ribadesella is just an hour and a half away on the A8 motorway. In Asturias, and close to Ribadesella, try to visit Tazones or Lastres, or San Vicente de la Barquera.
La Rioja: IMO, threedays is good enough. Musts: Laguardia, Logroño, a couple of wineries, Briones town, Museo Dinastía Vivanco (in Briones). Muga is in Haro, perfect for some pinchos and wine, as locals do. Not far, Vitoria, and the impressive visit of the Old Cathedral www.catedralvitoria.com, a spectacular restoration project of a "badly built" cathedral. If you have time, of course
My advice: Spain is beautiful almost anywhere, just keep driving and stop wherever you like a place. But don´t miss Lekeitio...
La Rioja: IMO, threedays is good enough. Musts: Laguardia, Logroño, a couple of wineries, Briones town, Museo Dinastía Vivanco (in Briones). Muga is in Haro, perfect for some pinchos and wine, as locals do. Not far, Vitoria, and the impressive visit of the Old Cathedral www.catedralvitoria.com, a spectacular restoration project of a "badly built" cathedral. If you have time, of course
My advice: Spain is beautiful almost anywhere, just keep driving and stop wherever you like a place. But don´t miss Lekeitio...
Apr 8th, 2010, 10:40 AM
#67
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Hostal Alemana in San Sebastián has got air-condition. It's just not listed on the english site and you would most likely have no use of it. Regarding noise, San Martín is not that noisy and you could always have an interior room.
http://www.hostalalemana.com/habitaciones.html
Hotel Parma will be another great option, on the seashore at the outskirts of the Parte vieja/Old town.
http://www.booking.com/hotels/hotel/.../parma.en.html
Hotel Zaragoza Plaza is close to Hotel Londres:
http://www.booking.com/hotels/hotel/...324937212c0052
San Sebastián is very small and walkable. Outstanding Villa Soro will be 2 km from the Parte vieja. Close to the vibrant Gros district with many of the best pintxos bars in town: http://www.villasoro.com/
We've been very happy living at charming and quiet Chomín, close to the Ondarreta beach and a 20 min walk along the La Concha promenade to the center/Parte vieja.
http://www.booking.com/hotels/hotel/...chomin.en.html
http://www.hostalalemana.com/habitaciones.html
Hotel Parma will be another great option, on the seashore at the outskirts of the Parte vieja/Old town.
http://www.booking.com/hotels/hotel/.../parma.en.html
Hotel Zaragoza Plaza is close to Hotel Londres:
http://www.booking.com/hotels/hotel/...324937212c0052
San Sebastián is very small and walkable. Outstanding Villa Soro will be 2 km from the Parte vieja. Close to the vibrant Gros district with many of the best pintxos bars in town: http://www.villasoro.com/
We've been very happy living at charming and quiet Chomín, close to the Ondarreta beach and a 20 min walk along the La Concha promenade to the center/Parte vieja.
http://www.booking.com/hotels/hotel/...chomin.en.html
Apr 8th, 2010, 11:24 AM
#68
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we have stayed at many of the Paradores and always found them either nice or VERY nice!. In 2001 we puchased the 5 night card for our July trip and it was benficial. This past November, 2009, the 5 night card did not work out best for us, but instead we signed up for free to be "Amigos de paradores", they sent us a membership card that we used when we checked into the hotels .. it provided us with wine and free parking. Worth the few seconds to sign up on line.
Out of the places you have mentioned, we stayed in the Parador in Avila, in the month of July and it was beautiful and in Leon in November of 2004. the hotel in Leon is lovely, but because it was November - fountains in front of the hotel were not running.
Enjoy!
Out of the places you have mentioned, we stayed in the Parador in Avila, in the month of July and it was beautiful and in Leon in November of 2004. the hotel in Leon is lovely, but because it was November - fountains in front of the hotel were not running.
Enjoy!
Apr 9th, 2010, 04:34 AM
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An en route stop to see all of this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le%C3%B3n,_Spain
sorry ......................I know I am not making it easy for you!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le%C3%B3n,_Spain
sorry ......................I know I am not making it easy for you!
Apr 9th, 2010, 07:42 AM
#72
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Yes, riberasacra, you have made this a challenge (which I really appreciate). Unlike Julie, we don't tend to go back and revisit places the next year or shortly thereafter because I usually have a laundry list of ther places I've never been to. In fact when we had a brief day trip to San Sebastian and I fell in love with it, it has taken 20 years for us to get back!
So, my problem is that I have now done research on ALL of the places I have put into this itinerary and now it's like giving up a child to drop one...
If we add on a day to SS from 2 to 3 I have to take a day off of Rioja (my husband's favorite part of this trip) or Madrid (which would have been fine except for all of the closings on Mondays). For the moment, the itinerary is shaping up to look this this (21 nights total):
2 nights Toledo (after overnight flight to Madrid
2 nights Salamanca (seeing Avila enroute)
1 night Leon
3 nights Ribasadella
2 nights Bilbao
3 nights San Sebastian
3 (or 4) nights Rioja (depending on nights in Madrid)
1 night Segovia
3 (or 4) nights Madrid (depending on nights in Rioja)
So, here are 2 questions:
1. Do I take a day off of both Madrid and Rioja (down to 3 each) to add the day to SS (for 3 nights)and also another day to Leon (for 2 nights)
2. Or do I just keep to the 4 days in the Basque region - 2 nights in Bilbao and 2 nights in SS and add the extra night to Leon and duel it out with my husband over a 4th night in Rioja or Madrid?? What do you think?
Linda
So, my problem is that I have now done research on ALL of the places I have put into this itinerary and now it's like giving up a child to drop one...
If we add on a day to SS from 2 to 3 I have to take a day off of Rioja (my husband's favorite part of this trip) or Madrid (which would have been fine except for all of the closings on Mondays). For the moment, the itinerary is shaping up to look this this (21 nights total):
2 nights Toledo (after overnight flight to Madrid
2 nights Salamanca (seeing Avila enroute)
1 night Leon
3 nights Ribasadella
2 nights Bilbao
3 nights San Sebastian
3 (or 4) nights Rioja (depending on nights in Madrid)
1 night Segovia
3 (or 4) nights Madrid (depending on nights in Rioja)
So, here are 2 questions:
1. Do I take a day off of both Madrid and Rioja (down to 3 each) to add the day to SS (for 3 nights)and also another day to Leon (for 2 nights)
2. Or do I just keep to the 4 days in the Basque region - 2 nights in Bilbao and 2 nights in SS and add the extra night to Leon and duel it out with my husband over a 4th night in Rioja or Madrid?? What do you think?
Linda
Apr 10th, 2010, 06:47 PM
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Take off the night in Rioja. If the thing you want to do in Madrid are closed, take a night there as well. Add to SS and book a flat whether it be a day or 2 days additional. That will save the hotel dilemma And kill 2 birds with one stone as well.
Apr 10th, 2010, 09:18 PM
#74
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Based on everyone's great advice, I think I have settled on this itinerary:
2 nights Toledo (after overnight flight to Madrid
2 nights Salamanca (seeing Avila enroute)
2 nights Leon
3 nights Ribasadella
2 nights Bilbao
3 nights San Sebastian
3 nights Rioja
1 night Segovia
3 nights Madrid (flight home is 5:00 pm on last day so we will also have a good part of that day to take in a museum if we've missed one in the first couple of days.
As my husband says, I guess we'll know if it worked once we get back!! This itinerary does seem to flow better now and gives us additional nights where we seemed to be short. It just took longer than I expected to get here... I will plan to start booking places the beginning of the week, so anyone who still sees problems with this please speak up now!!
Thanks again for everyone's input on restaurants, hotels, sights, etc. We are really looking forward to a great trip.
Linda
2 nights Toledo (after overnight flight to Madrid
2 nights Salamanca (seeing Avila enroute)
2 nights Leon
3 nights Ribasadella
2 nights Bilbao
3 nights San Sebastian
3 nights Rioja
1 night Segovia
3 nights Madrid (flight home is 5:00 pm on last day so we will also have a good part of that day to take in a museum if we've missed one in the first couple of days.
As my husband says, I guess we'll know if it worked once we get back!! This itinerary does seem to flow better now and gives us additional nights where we seemed to be short. It just took longer than I expected to get here... I will plan to start booking places the beginning of the week, so anyone who still sees problems with this please speak up now!!
Thanks again for everyone's input on restaurants, hotels, sights, etc. We are really looking forward to a great trip.
Linda
Apr 11th, 2010, 10:10 AM
#75
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Up'ed to 2 nights in Leon...great...now I need to keep you occupied..so apart of the last link I gave how about this one?
http://www.turismocastillayleon.com/...egLocale=en_UK
Loads of information of what to find around the city...If you give me a clue as to what you are looking for maybe I can help find you something. (churches, countryside, museums, little villages etc etc)
http://www.turismocastillayleon.com/...egLocale=en_UK
Loads of information of what to find around the city...If you give me a clue as to what you are looking for maybe I can help find you something. (churches, countryside, museums, little villages etc etc)
Apr 12th, 2010, 08:24 AM
#77
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Glad to help other trips as well!
Ribeirasacra, thanks for the latest link in Leon. I have bookmarked it. We do enjoy driving through pretty countryside and stopping at interesting small villages, so if there is a route you recommend from Salamanca to Leon I'd love to know it. Also, should we stop in Zamora on our way to Leon?
If you have a particular hotel and restaurants to recommend that would be great. I was thinking of either the NH Plaza Major or the Posada Regia.
Linda
Ribeirasacra, thanks for the latest link in Leon. I have bookmarked it. We do enjoy driving through pretty countryside and stopping at interesting small villages, so if there is a route you recommend from Salamanca to Leon I'd love to know it. Also, should we stop in Zamora on our way to Leon?
If you have a particular hotel and restaurants to recommend that would be great. I was thinking of either the NH Plaza Major or the Posada Regia.
Linda
Apr 12th, 2010, 01:09 PM
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lvs ...I am sorry I do not do recommendations for either hotels or restaurants as they are personal to your own tastes, they will be very different to yours.
I am going to have to think about a reply about locations.... I will be back later!
I am going to have to think about a reply about locations.... I will be back later!
Apr 13th, 2010, 04:50 AM
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Ivs .. we have stayed at the Parador in Zamora. remembering it to be nice .. not as architecturally intersting on the exterior as some of the other Paradors in the system. I think we just used Zamora as a stop over, I really don't remember doing anything there.
Enjoy.
Enjoy.
Apr 13th, 2010, 04:59 AM
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Hi, Linda,
Just a couple of things. If you like romanesque churches, you will LOVE Zamora. It's got a beautiful central historic core, cathedral, castle with walls (though not much to visit), and more than 20 romanesque churches. Also a couple of nice museums. My only hesitation would be the time factor, getting in and out of the city, parking, etc since you're doing it on your way from Salamanca to Leon.
I have stayed in the Posada Regia in Leon -- it's one of those old stone house hotels, very traditional, old furniture. It's very charming and the breakfast was great. Very good location. I imagine that you'll have to park in the big underground parking lot that's not far from the hotel. I don't know the NH
I love this part of Spain, but the drive probably wouldn't be described by anyone as going through "pretty countryside." It's flat and hot. There are a few towns with minor attractions (Medina del Campo, Benavente, eg), but I would save all the time for enjoying Leon and Salamanca.
Just my opinion.
Just a couple of things. If you like romanesque churches, you will LOVE Zamora. It's got a beautiful central historic core, cathedral, castle with walls (though not much to visit), and more than 20 romanesque churches. Also a couple of nice museums. My only hesitation would be the time factor, getting in and out of the city, parking, etc since you're doing it on your way from Salamanca to Leon.
I have stayed in the Posada Regia in Leon -- it's one of those old stone house hotels, very traditional, old furniture. It's very charming and the breakfast was great. Very good location. I imagine that you'll have to park in the big underground parking lot that's not far from the hotel. I don't know the NH
I love this part of Spain, but the drive probably wouldn't be described by anyone as going through "pretty countryside." It's flat and hot. There are a few towns with minor attractions (Medina del Campo, Benavente, eg), but I would save all the time for enjoying Leon and Salamanca.
Just my opinion.
