weber6560

Another vote for intown, both Bilbao and Sanse. In both, the food experience, at any price level, is unmatched. In or out is certainly just a matter of preference but my strong preference is intown.

I've never had a car when in Sanse - Where does one park? I don't recall seeing parking lots altho is does seem there was one under the new market.

Don't unerestimate the convenience of busses. For example, Lekeitio to Sanse is about 90 minutes as I recall, Sanse to Pamplona about an hour. I suspect they are quicker than driving when you factor in the times spent hunting parking. I do confess however that there were a coule of days I wished for a car to poke about the ountryside.

lvs

I've been spending a lot of time reading Maribel's guides. Still trying to resolve the choice of the first night in Alca de Henartes, which sounds lovely, and then the next day enroute to Toledo stopping at the palace in Aranjuez. Could perhaps do both if we stayed 2 nights in Toledo, but that is backtracking. We will most likely get into Madrid early in the morning, but I think a restful first day would most likely start our long trip off on a calmer note, even if we start out further west and have to head back east. So I'm leaning towards that.

I also think it is do-able if we stay over in Avila for the next 2 nights following Toledo (instead of Segovia and visit that as a day trip) and then enroute stay over in Leon the next night. I think we will have enough time to visit Salamanca enroute. Salamanca looks lovely and is a World Heritage site and we should have plenty of time during the day to explore it. We would sacrifice the beautiful late afternoon colors, but somethings have to be given up.

I know I would like to stay in San Sebastian. The question is whether to split it up the 5 days with 2 in Bilbao. There are definitely a lot of things to see if Bilbao, but the idea of 5 nights in one place is appealing. So I guess if everyone really feels that it is beneficial to do 2 days in Bilbao and 3 in San Sebastian I will lean towards that. From there we go to Laguardia (or somewhere near there) for the next 4 nights i Rioja before going to Madrid. So if that time in Rioja alters anyone's advice as to whether we should split up our 5 Basque days please let me know.

Thanks,
Linda

JulieVikmanis

Sounds like you're getting downto brass tacks (as my Mother would say) and have a pretty good plan. If you get NYTimes, check out today's travel section. they have a column with a recommendation for dining in Aranjeuz.

lvs

Now that the itinerary is more or less done, I'm focusing on hotels. Here are my ideas on some of my stops. Advice of course appreciated:

Acala de Henartes (one night) - Parador Convento de Santo Tomas

Toledo: (one night) 4 that seem interesting:
1. Parador Toledo sounds nice. Since we are only there one night are we better off in town?
2. Fontecruz Palacio Eugenia de Montijo
3. Hostal del Cardinal (we will have 2 large rolling bags to get up their steps!)
4. Hotel Pintor El Greco Sercotel (good reviews on Trip Advisor)

Avila (2 nights): 2 which sound interesting:
1. Parador Avila Hotel Raimundo de Borgona
2. Las Leyendas (revulgo suggestion above)

Leon (one night) Also 2 that sound interesting:
1. Parador Hostal San Marcos
2. NH Plaza Mayor

Bilbao (2 nights) I think I'll go with revulgo's suggestion of Hotel Conde Duque.

San Sebastian (3 nights).
1. Londres (expensive...)
2. Niza (reasonable and on the beach)
3. Pension Alemana (kimhe's suggestion above)

Rioja (3 nights - possibly 4)
1. Hotel Villa de Laguardia
Ribera del Duero - 1 night if we don't stay 4 in Rioja
1. Hotel Torremilanos

Madrid comes after that. I haven't really narrowed down my selections enough yet to deal with it. I'll get to once the rest of the locations are resolved!

Thanks,
Linda

lincasanova

nice trip! I can't help you on the hotels . sorry!

cruiseluv

We stayed at the Parador in León a few years ago. We enjoyed our stay there, it is a very interesting and historic building. We had a room in the modern annex (the annex is attached to the main building). Maribel had adviced that if we were booking a standard room (which we were)we would be better off there than in a standard room in the old part of the hotel. The room was very comfortable and the bathroom modern. The one slight negative is that the Parador is about 20 mins walking from the old town.

However, if I go back to León I would probably stay at the NH Plaza Mayor as I like the location much better.

JulieVikmanis

In planning our trip I opted for NH Plaza Mayor in Leon for its location.

If you decide to stay in Ribera del Duero, I think you will like Torremolinos. We dined there and it's old world lovely. I didn't see the rooms, but the public rooms are superb. It's a little tough to find so get good directions. It's a ways out of town.

lvs

Thanks Julie. By the way, I have communicated with one of the Mugas (we were at a wine dinner with him) and he said the best place to stay in Rioja is the Los Augostinos in Haro. Are you familiar with that? I thought Laguardia would be fun to explore at night but he lives there!

How are your plans coming along?

We're rethinking the night in Alcala de Henartes and instead driving from the airport in the morning and stopping in Aranjuez to see the palace (and maybe lunch at the restaurant written up in the Times (thanks for that - I do receive the Times), resting as needed and then going to Toledo for 2 nights. One less one-nighter!

I also have a question about our 2 nights in Avila (after Toledo and before Leon). Is there enough time in addition to seeing Avila and Segovia to fit in El Escorial and Valley of the Fallen or is that just pushing it too much? Don't want to shortchange my day in Segovia and that would seem like the day to do it as it is closest to there.

lincasanova

not in depth but being so close at lest take a short stopover at f of f and el e.

JulieVikmanis

Yes, when we first started looking at Rioja for a previous trip I got very excited about Los Agostinos. Unfortunately it was booked. It looks lovely and I think it would be a wonderful place to stay. Husband is tapas crazy and wants to stay in Logrono to be able to just stumble home after dinner on Calle Lauro, so that put Haro and Los Agostinos out of the running for this coming trip.

I buckled down and reserved all our hotels for Spain and also booked our flight this week. We're flying in and out of Madrid June 13 to 29 for 1081 US from Ft. Lauderdale--not bad as flight costs go these days. We arrive in Madrid early and will head from the airport to Leon where we're staying at NH Plaza Mayor for one night, then on to Ribadesella and Villa Rosario for 3 nights, and Basque country for 5 nights all in Getaria at Hotel Saiaz. Couldn't resist that sea view directly out the bedroom window. Then Logrono for 3 at Marques de Vallejo and finally Madrid for 3 staying at Roommate Alicia for 114 euros per night including breakfast. We stayed at a Roommate hotel in Madrid previously and liked the modern, design look and the youthful, happening vibe. Maribel speaks highly of the Alicia property in her guides and we make fewer demands on hotels in large cities where we spend less time in our room anyway, so I didn't ditz around too much; just booked it and got on with things. You might want to check them out at room-matehotels.com

Double check what day you will be in Aranjuez. It is closed Monday or Tuesday and some guidebooks have it wrong. Grounds are beautiful but it's probably not worth including in your itinerary if the palace is closed for touring on whatever day you are scheduling to be there.

El Escorial and Valley of the Fallen are close together and not far off the preferred Michelin route from Toledo to Avila, so I'd say go for it. Stop to see them enroute from Toledo to Avila and then see as much as you can in Avila on the first day. Go to Segovia on the second and see how it compares to Avila to determine how long you want to stay there or how short you want to cut your visit in order to see more of Avila. Take the Avila tourist train which will give you a good overview of the city and take you around to all the walls.

mikelg

Los Agustinos is a very, very nice hotel with an excellent restaurant in Haro, in the very heart of La Rioja wine region. Calle Laurel in Logroño is a must, you can´t miss the grilled mushrooms in any of its bars, and the incredible wines by the glass...

cherrybomb

Briefy becacausr I am using my mobile to post but will come back.

I would reconsider St Jean de Luz. I would take some time here. It is a 45 min drive from SS not 15 min and French basque country is so different in atmosphere. Dfinately hit Bayonne. I would skip Hondarribia which is 15 min from SS and make that day trip. Bilbao is worth the time and is underrated.

Is it possible to rent flats in the places you are staying 3 days + or do you prefer hotels?

Dump your car in Madrid. We kept our car in SS and parked in the afforementioned garage under the supermarket at 16€ per 24 hours though it was a pain to drive out of the city due to construction making the city a poor base.

Just some quick thoughts.

lvs

I've been off the site for a few days. Just got back from our place in Florida to return to the tundra which was once called New Jersey!

Well the info above has convinced me to stay at Los Agostinos. Thanks everyone. In fact, the lovely people at Muga have offered to take care of the reservation for us! Is a day trip possible to Ribera del Duero from there or should we just stay 3 days in Rioja and move a day to Ribera del Duero. Or forget Ribera del Duero. I keep going round and round and am giving myself a headache! It's so hard to decide since we've never been there. My husband thinks we've shortchanged the wine region as it is. I just don't know where I would cut back to extend another day there as everythig else sounds so wonderful...

Cherrybomb, we are not opposed to flats instead of hotels. Is there one in particular that you like that is well located? It sounds like you still think having 2 days in Bilbao and then moving further east for 3 days makes sense. So I'm assuming you think our last 3 days should be either all in St. Jean de Luz or break up the 3 days and stay 2 nights in San Sebastian and one in St. Jean de Luz? Is San Sebastian just better to see as a day trip since traffic in and out of the city may be an issue (not to mention E16 to park)? Or is there ONE location that could work as a base???

The Spanish and French Basque region seems pretty large so I can't quite get a handle on where it is best to stay. There was an intetesting article in the NY Times last September called "Basque Without Borders". For those interested you can check it out online at nytimes.com/travel. The author stayed in Lekeitio, San Sebastian, and then in St. Jean de Luz at the Zazpi Hotel. We stayed in St. Jean de Luz many years ago - we were there for a wedding - and the only sightseeing we did was one day going east to San Sebastian. So we really have not seen most of the region. We have 5 days so we need to use it wisely. I'm as confused about this as I am about Rioja/Ribera del Duero!

Thanks Julie for the heads up on Aranjuez. We will be there on Tuesday so I will definnitely make sure it's open before going. Thanks for the advice for getting to El Escorial and Valley of the Fallen from Toledo to Avila. That really works!

Regarding Madrid, I had checked the Room Mate Alicia website and it seemed nice. I have a list for Madrid that includes that as well as El Prado, Meninas, Preciados, Catalonia Les Cortes, Reina Victoria, and Palacio del Retiro. Large list and in different price categories. Like Julie we don't spend much time in a hotel room and we really don't want to spend extra hundreds of dollars a night. We do like a large bed and a good shower and a place that is well located for walking around. El Prado seems like a possibility but I am always a bit nervous about 3 star places.

Julie, your ticket price is good. I've been checking flights from NY/Newark airports and they're about the same or a bit higher than yours. You'd think we could do better for a non-stop flight. I'm trying to decide if we should book now or hold out for a few weeks to see if prices drop a bit. The risk is they could go up! I've got some flights listed on Yapta which would inform me if there is a price drop, but nothing much so far.

cruiseluv

Hi lvs.

Hello from another inhabitant of the NJ tundra!

Wanted to comment regarding Hotel El Prado. I was also hesitant last March to stay there as in the past we have stayed at Westin Palace and Villa Real (which are considered 5 stars). But the rate was so good , and since we needed two rooms I went ahead. I was very pleased. We had a modern,good size room (not big but more than adequate) and a nice very clean bathroom (with great water pressure). I am going back to Madrid this summer and I will be staying at El Prado again. Location can't be beat and the rates are fantastic.

Now, you say you like a "large bed". Since I was staying with my daughter we had two separate beds. I am not sure what size are their matrimonial beds, or if they just push two beds together.

cherrybomb

Again briefly, because I am going to bed. I recommend the Me Reina Victoria - very good staff and accommodations, upgrade to a level room with balcony, or I would not bother!

For SS we stayed here: http://www.friendlyrentals.com/en/ap...ment-526-5.htm
in May and it was well located, note it is in the back on the courtyard if you prefer the street. I prefer the street and am not noise adverse, though it is a quiet area either way.

2-3 days in Bilbao is plenty, though unlike some people here, I quite like the city and find it underrated, akin to those who find Porto underrated, no need for more than 2 nights though.

Do at least 2 days in St Jean de Luz for tooling around, + I find the French Basque side more relaxing and a nice break/change of pace atmosphere and food-wise...keep 3-4 days in SS, preferable 4 days, though it is very small - everything is walkable and you will be hitting the same spots more than once, not that that is a bad thing. While in SS park yourself there and not use it as a base, not worth it. As of May 2009, there was a lot of construction for driving which caused our Garmin to freak out, I highly suspect that this has changed given the amount of construction going on.

I got confused with Rioja too! We stayed in Elciego at the Riscal, there isn't much in that town other than the Riscal and we were poor planners on that end, also it did not help that 2 of our activities that were planned got screwed up due to weather and, um, unexpected hot weather that led to dehydration/ me being really really hung over due to the unexpected 90 degree weather! The other was a rain out on a 6am call for a hot air balloon ride. But that was just us, don't write it off.

Hope this helps, feel free to ask questions...

lvs

After a few weeks of juggling this itinerary we have made some progress. I really want to finish this before it gets hard to make reservations. We do have our flights. We're booked for our first 2 nights in Toledo, and our 4 nights in Rioja. Here is the most recent (yet tentative) itinerary with how I'm thinking we'll spend our days. Comments appreciated as always.

1. Toledo - we're booked in Palacio Eugenia de Montillo. Got a very good rate. Two nights. Chance to unwind from our overnight flight and see the city.

2.Segovia - 2 nights. We decided not to stay in Avila after reading a number of posts. My thoughts are that Segovia is more important a place to stay. Perhaps we can visit El Escorial enroute.

3. Salamanca - 1 night. We weren't originally going to do this and just pass through on our way to Leon. It just seemed too rushed. This way we'll spend a few hours in Avila on our way to Salamanca.

4. Leon - 1 night

5. Ribasadella - now down to 3 nights. Enroute from Leon we'll visit Oviedo and the surrounding area. For the other 2 days, one day in Picos de Europa and one day visiting the caves and coast in the area.

6. Bilbao - 2 nights. Enroute visit some areas on the coast from Santander. Other possibilities - Gernica, the painted forest of Oma. How much is really possible enroute? The second day in town visiting museum and other sights.

7. San Sebastian - 2 nights. Not enough time I know, but we have 4 days booked in the Rioja afterwards, an important part of the trip for my husband. We can meander through the Basque countryside south of San Sebastian on our way to Rioja. We've decided to eliminate the French Basque region as not enough time. We have visited St. Jean de Luz before but never made it to Bayonne. I guess another trip combined with western part of France. So, from Bilbao to San Sebastian that first day perhaps stoppimg at Zumaia-Getaria-Zarautz. The second day stay in town and see all of the sights.

8. Rioja - booked in Haro at Los Agostinos. 4 nights.

9. Madrid - 4 nights

We've never been to Madrid before. Is 4 nights about right? Should we take a day away from here and add it somewhere else?

Thanks!
Linda

kimhe

Madrid is a great city, but as the rest of inland Spain it would most likely be very, very hot in July. Perhaps add one Madrid day to San Sebastián? I think an extra day would make it easier to relax and really take in the vibrant atmosphere of the Basque Country.

When in Bilbao, I suggest you visit the oldest café in town, Café Boulevard. It was closed down to great public protests in 2006 after 135 years of history, but it reopened a week ago. This 10 min documentary about the last day before closing speaks volumes of the café and its significance as well as of the bilbainos themselves: http://www.vimeo.com/2690209

cruiseluv

I agree with Kimhe. I love Madrid, but since you already will be visiting Toledo and Segovia separately, 3 nights in Madrid proper will give you ample time to enjoy the city. I would add it to San Sebastian. Also, another possibility could be going to Bilbao as a daytrip from SS and add the two nights from Bilbao to SS. That's also one less hotel check-in/out you'll have to do.

Woyzeck

I don't have much to add, except to second cruiseluv's suggestion to do Bilbao as a day trip and add those nights somewhere else, such as San Sebastian.

JulieVikmanis

lvs, have you settled on a hotel for your time in Ribadesella? Check out Villa Rosario. We loved it. hotelvillarosario.com