rachill_az

I'm now more confused than I when started I think I'm just going to stick to the original itinerary but dropping off Stonehenge and Wells.

Scootoir

It is a lot to think about but you have plenty of time to plan. Take a breather and consider what is most important to you and how intense a travel pace you enjoy. Look at other options. Would it be possible for your family to meet you for a weekend somewhere rather than traveling to Manchester? We have done this when some of our Midwestern relatives want to visit places in California other than where we live.

janisj

>> you have plenty of time to plan<<

I agree -- no need to nail anything down now. Relax w/ a glass of wine (or three) and a map of the UK and think about your travel style and wish list.

It sounds like you want some countryside -- you can't really enjoy being in the country/rural areas if you are just driving through. And do realize in those rural areas you will generally average about 35 mph (sometimes less). The only way to make time is to use the motorways which are not scenic (most are not AT ALL scenic) so to get out into the country you will be on those 30-35 mph roads. Not BTW that the speed limits are 35mph - but w/ wending through villages, sheep in the road, getting stuck behind caravans (travel trailers) you really will average about that.

Since you have relatives in Manchester - my guess is you will have other chances to visit the UK.

So don't try to cover so much territory this time -- London/Manchester/the Lake District and a tiny bit of Scotland could <u>totally</u> fill your two weeks.

bilboburgler

I get out a few guide books from the local library, chill out with wine and map. Remember non of these places are going anywhere, they will be there if/when you come again.

My gut says do a northern visit or a southern one.

Could you fly into Manchester, do a bit of Wales, York, Scotland and save London/Cotswolds/Oxford for another trip?

janisj

>>Could you fly into Manchester, do a bit of Wales, York, Scotland and save London/Cotswolds/Oxford for another trip?<<

Something like that is what I was thinking -- many first timers just assume one must fly into London. Don't know if that's the case here . . . But If say Manchester and Scotland were the main priorities -- I'd fly in to Manchester and home from GLA or EDI and not head south at all.

OR fly in to MAN and home from LHR and not do any of the northern bits, sticking to Manchester, the Cotswolds/Bath and London.

Either would be a good 2 week trip.

PalenQ

Day 6 - Drive London to Cotswolds, Overnight in Cotswolds
Day 7 - Drive Cotswolds to Ludlow, Overnight in Ludlow>

Yes I agree with janis - you will see little of either place - sdie roads can be tediously slow- why the huge detour to Ludlow - I've been there a nice nice town but not nicer than many other places?

rachill_az

Thank you for all of your advice. It has given us a lot to think about and consider. We really appreciate everyone's recommendations and opinions. It helped us to think about what we'd like to see in each city and how much time we'd need to see those things.

This will likely be our only visit to England within the next 10+ years. Even though we do have family in England, we rarely visit the same country twice as there is just too much of the world to see. I'd prefer not to plan this trip with the idea that we can come back to see the places we missed - of course I'd love to visit more than once, but you just never know what curve balls life will through you! With that in mind, we've decided to keep all of our must-haves, even if that means moving around a little quicker than most would.

Here's what we came up with over the weekend. We feel pretty good about this itinerary, but are still very much open to suggestions.

Day 1: Flight
Day 2: Arrive to London in the early afternoon. Overnight in London.
Day 3: Full day walking tour of London - Big Ben, Buckingham Palace, Westminster Abbey, Tower of London, St. Paul's Cathedral, etc. Overnight in London.
Day 4: Borough Market, London Eye, Afternoon Tea. Overnight in London.
Day 5: 8am train to Moreton-in-Marsh for full day tour of the Cotswolds (10am-4pm). Train to Bath. Overnight in Bath.
Day 6: Explore Bath and surrounding areas. Maybe a sunrise or sunset tour of Stonehenge. Overnight in Bath.
Day 7: Leave Bath around 8am and drive to Ludlow, stopping at Chepstow Castle and Tintern Abbey. Arrive in Ludlow around 3pm. Overnight in Ludlow.
Day 8: Spend the morning in Ludlow. Stokesay Castle. Drive to Manchester, arriving around 4pm. Overnight in Manchester.
Day 9: Full day in Manchester. See church my grandparent's were married in. Overnight in Manchester.
Day 10: Drive to the Lake District. Overnight in the Lake District.
Day 11: Full day in the Lake District.
Day 12: Drive to York via the Yorkshire Dales. Arrive in York around 1pm. Visit The Shambles? Dinner somewhere with yorkshire pudding. Overnight in York.
Day 13: Explore York: York Minster, Chocolate, Tea at Betty's. Leave York around 3pm, train to Edinburgh. Overnight in Edinburgh.
Day 14: Early morning leave for 3 day Highlands Tour. Overnight Isle of Skye.
Day 15: Highlands. Overnight Isle of Skye.
Day 16: Highlands, Overnight Edinburgh.
Day 17: Full day in Edinburgh. Overnight in Edinburgh.
Day 18: Flight

PalenQ

You have plenty of possible mini-bus tours in the Lake District- may be better than driving.

Where are you going to base -I suggest Keswick as a neat small regional town- pencil in the pencil museum there - remnant of a once booming graphite/pencil industry. Also centrally located.

rachill_az

Hi PalenQ - yes, we were considering Keswick as an option for the Lake District. I was hoping to find a BnB near the water. Do you happen to know of any outdoor painting classes in the Lake District? I am looking for something maybe 2-3 hours long, but all I can find are multi-day lessons. Would love to sit for a couple hours and paint overlooking the lakes. I won't be able to bring canvas, paint, easel etc. with me, so joining a short class would be ideal.

janisj

Just a couple of comments:

>>Day 7: Leave Bath around 8am and drive to Ludlow, stopping at Chepstow Castle and Tintern Abbey. Arrive in Ludlow around 3pm.<<

The drive alone is a little over 3 hours so just doable w/ an hour at Chepstow, and hour at Tintern and lunch.

>>Day 12: Drive to York via the Yorkshire Dales. Arrive in York around 1pm.<<

Really difficult. The fastest drive missing the Dales entirely is about 3 hours. If you want to meander through the Dales even just a teensy bit count on 5 hours.

One thing to to take into account -- maybe some days you can get away by 8AM but it isn't always easy in B&Bs. What w/ the cooked breakfast, the landlady/landlord having to serve other guests, having to settle up/check out around them clearing the breakfast dishes . . . just don't be surprised if you 8AM departure slips to 9 or 9:30. If you want to leave early then you'll miss out on the generally terrific cooked breakfasts which is one of the main reasons to stay in B&Bs

I just assume I won't get on the road until 9:30 or 10AM - and if its earlier its a bonus.

rachill_az

janisj - Thank you for your comments. I didn't think about how leaving early might not be as easy.

Seems like Day 7 is doable, assuming we can leave by 8am. We are early morning people, so I'll plan on emailing the BnB when I book to inform them of our schedule and see if it is okay to leave early. This would be the only BnB breakfast that we might have to miss.

Day 12, we will have to decide if we want to spend the time driving through the Dales or have a couple of extra prime hours in York. Since we'll just be coming from the Lake District, we may be more inclined to pass on driving through the Dales and just head straight for York.

PalenQ

Know nothing about painting classes but Bowness in Windermere is on lovely Lake Windermere.

Conniston Water is another large lake - this one known for setting world speed boat records in the past.

Keswick of course not on a lake.

How about a tactical pit stop at Fountains Abbey en route to York - really awesome ruins and setting - doesn't take long to look around. A few hours less in York may be not much of a loss as you have all the next day and central York is compact - I enjoyed walking on the ramparts around town.

janisj

>>This would be the only BnB breakfast that we might have to miss.<<

Many (if not most) will pack you a cold breakfast if you need to leave too early for a cooked version.

>>How about a tactical pit stop at Fountains Abbey en route to York - really awesome ruins and setting - doesn't take long to look around. <<

Windermere through the Dales (say Wensleydale/Hawes/Aysgarth) to Nidderdale/Fountains Abbey to York is a 4 to 4.5 hour drive plus stops. so really about a 6.5 hour drive. From Keswick it would be maybe 30 minutes longer.

The Dales is slow (very slow) going. Well worth the effort but most of the roads are very narrow.

rachill_az

A BIG thank you to everyone. I think we have nailed down a great itinerary that we are excited about. Now the real planning begins...hotels, rental cars, driving routes, restaurants, tours, etc.! I'm sure I'll have more questions!

rachill_az

Our trip is in June of next year - wasn't expecting to book our flights so soon but couldn't pass up a great deal we found yesterday for only $750 round trip Arizona to LHR!

Now this leaves us with a question - we need to get from Edinburgh to LHR for our flight home. Below are 3 options we came up with. Leaving it to the experts to decide which is the best option - or maybe you have an alternative idea??

Here is the final itinerary we ended up with:
Day 1 (Tuesday): Flight to London
Day 2 (Wednesday): Arrive at LHR 3pm. Overnight in London.
Day 3 (Thursday): Full day in London. Overnight in London.
Day 4 (Friday): Full day in London. Overnight in London.
Day 5 (Saturday): Day Trip to Cotswolds. Overnight in London.
Day 6 (Sunday): Train to Bath. Sunset tour of Stonehenge. Overnight in Bath.
Day 7 (Monday): Full day in Bath. Overnight in Bath.
Day 8 (Tuesday): Drive to Ludlow, stopping at Chepstow Castle and Tintern Abbey. Overnight in Ludlow.
Day 9 (Wednesday): Drive Ludlow to Manchester. Overnight in Manchester.
Day 10 (Thursday): Full day in Manchester. Overnight in Manchester.
Day 11 (Friday): Drive to Lake District. Overnight in Lake District.
Day 12 (Saturday): Full day in Lake District. Overnight in Lake District.
Day 13 (Sunday): Drive to York. Overnight in York
Day 14 (Monday): Train to Edinburgh. Overnight in Edinburgh.

OPTION 1 -
Day 15 (Tuesday): Full day in Edinburgh. Overnight in Edinburgh.
Day 16 (Wednesday): Early morning leave for 3 day Highlands Tour. Overnight Isle of Skye.
Day 17 (Thursday): Highlands. Overnight Isle of Skye.
Day 18 (Friday): Highlands, Arrive back to Edinburgh at 7pm. Overnight train to LHR Airport?
Day 19 (Saturday): Flight leaving LHR at 10:30am.

OPTION 2 -
Day 15 (Tuesday): Early morning leave for 3 day Highlands Tour. Overnight Isle of Skye.
Day 16 (Wednesday): Highlands. Overnight Isle of Skye.
Day 17 (Thursday): Highlands, Overnight Edinburgh.
Day 18 (Friday): Full day in Edinburgh. Overnight in Edinburgh.
Day 19 (Saturday): 7am - 8:35am Flight to LHR. LHR flight home leaves at 10:30am.

OPTION 3 -
Day 15 (Tuesday): Early morning leave for 3 day Highlands Tour. Overnight Isle of Skye.
Day 16 (Wednesday): Highlands. Overnight Isle of Skye.
Day 17 (Thursday): Highlands, Overnight Edinburgh.
Day 18 (Friday): Full day in Edinburgh. Evening flight to LHR leaving at 8:30pm and arriving at LHR 10pm. Where to sleep?
Day 19 (Saturday): Flight leaving LHR at 10:30am.

Thanks for your advice!!

Rubicund

Your option 3 seems the most sensible. With an earlyish flight home I think I'd want to be at Heathrow the night before, especially as you'll be checking in at least two hours before the flight. Should there be any delay from EDI on your option 2, you could have a problem.

One of the LHR airport hotels should work well.

janisj

OK -- >>Day 18 (Friday): Highlands, Arrive back to Edinburgh at 7pm. Overnight train to LHR Airport?<<

There is no train from Edinburgh to LHR. The overnight train arrives at Euston Station - which is not very convenient for LHR.

>>Day 19 (Saturday): 7am - 8:35am Flight to LHR. LHR flight home leaves at 10:30am.<<

I assume the 7AM flight s on BA -- right (I took the same flight a couple of weeks ago. Who are you flying from LHR to Phoenix -- AA? AA and BA use different terminals and unless you are flying business (doubt it for $700 ) 2 hours is to close. You will have to retrieve your bags and the take a shuttle bus to T-3.

>>Day 18 (Friday): Full day in Edinburgh. Evening flight to LHR leaving at 8:30pm and arriving at LHR 10pm. Where to sleep?<<

There are many hotels all around LHR and most are pretty economical - look at the Premier Inn and other budget accommodations along the Bath Road which are most convenient to T-3.

(re all of the above: IF you are flying BA to Phoenix you'd be using T-5 for everything and my advice would be different -- I'd take the morning flight since I wouldn't be changing terminals)

janisj

Oh also meant to add -- the sleeper doesn't arrive at Euston until after 7AM -- and that is cutting it very close for a 10:30 flight.

rachill_az

Thanks so much!

We are flying Delta. We will go ahead and book the 8:30pm BA flight from EDI to LHR on Friday evening and catch our 10:30am Saturday Delta flight back to PHX.

We'll get a hotel near the airport for Friday night and check in for our Saturday flight around 7:30am. Guess this doesn't leave much time for a nice final dinner or breakfast in England?

janisj

Some other options:

What I'd probably do since your flight home is not that early . . . I'd either take an early evening train (not the sleeper -- just a regular train) from Edinburgh to Kings Cross. Stow your luggage at the station, have a very nice dinner in the St Pancras Renaissance hotel, collect your bags, take the tube out to LHR and check into your hotel . . .

OR . . . take the train and stay the night at a hotel along the Piccadilly Line (anywhere from Kings Cross to Earls Court), have a late dinner and tube to LHR early in the AM

If you catch a 5PM train you will be in London a little before 10PM.

Dining options near LHR are pretty slim except there are some good Indian restaurants nearby.